House of Commons Hansard Debates for 8 Feb 1993

Sir Derek Spencer : It was precisely to enable my right hon. and learned Friend to deal with the deep sense of misgiving to which the hon. Gentleman referred that we changed the law on this subject and gave the Attorney-General power to refer sentences which appear unduly lenient.

31. Mr. Burns : To ask the Attorney-General if he will make a statement on the restructuring of the Crown prosecution service.

The Attorney-General (Sir Nicholas Lyell) : On 1 April 1993, the existing 31 areas of the Crown prosecution service will amalgamate to form 13 new areas. The aim is to improve communication between the areas and headquarters, to lay emphasis on the CPS as a national service, and to enhance the responsibilities of chief Crown prosecutors and their role in management.

Mr. Burns : I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend. Does he agree that it is important that more time be given to experienced lawyers to have a personal involvement in the more serious cases with which they are dealing? Will the changes go any way to enhance that and bring it about?

Sir Nicholas Lyell : Yes. Two of the advantages of the changes will be, first, that chief Crown prosecutors will be given a bigger role in the central management of the service

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as a whole and, secondly, that it will free senior lawyers to do case work on the important and complex cases with which the CPS now deals.

Mr. Fraser : Can the Attorney-General confirm that he will carefully consider facilitating the CPS to argue before the Court of Appeal that the sentence in the Newport Crown court rape case was inadequate? Will he therefore give the Court of Appeal an opportunity to give some guidance about the sentencing of juveniles, as there has been a great deal of concern about the kind of sentences that juveniles have received for serious crimes?

Sir Nicholas Lyell : I appreciate the concern expressed by the hon. Gentleman. It would be wrong for me to pre-empt my decision before I have seen the papers and the factors that impinged on the mind of the learned judge in that case, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I will look carefully at the matter and that, if the case is referred, it will give the Court of Appeal that opportunity, among others.

32. Mr. David Evans : To ask the Attorney-General how many vacancies for the Crown prosecution service there are in the county of Hertfordshire.

The Solicitor-General : The Crown prosecution service currently has a full complement of 48 lawyers in the Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire area. It has one vacancy for support staff out of a total requirement of 80.

Mr. Evans : Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that all prosecutions are being undermined by punishments not fitting the crime? Does he realise that, apart from the recent rape case, there are many cases of crimes such as joy riding and so on which the nation feels should be punished properly? When will he stop pussyfooting about and get on with it?

The Solicitor-General : We do not pussyfoot around. We refer many cases to the Court of Appeal when we believe that there are grounds to say that the sentence is unduly lenient.

Matrix Churchill

33. Mr. Mike O'Brien : To ask the Attorney-General when he expects to receive a report on the outcome of the inquiry on Matrix Churchill.

The Attorney-General : The time scale required to complete the Matrix Churchill inquiry is a matter for Lord Justice Scott. He has made it clear that he wishes to report to the President of the Board of Trade as soon as possible.

Mr. O'Brien : Is it not the case that Lord Justice Scott is currently still reading the papers and has not even spoken to witnesses yet? On that basis, are we not unlikely to have a report before the autumn? When the matter was first raised, the Prime Minister assured the House that he would not allow the inquiry to prevent parliamentary questions from being answered, but are not Ministers in fact refusing to answer legitimate questions to which the British public have a right to answers? If British Ministers have acted improperly, they should not continue in office until the report is completed.

The Attorney-General : There are three questions there. I repeat the assurance that Government Departments will give full assistance to Lord Justice Scott. He has already

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received about 30,000 documents. Obviously, they take a good deal of time to read and to assimilate. He then proposes to hear the evidence. I understand from a press release that he proposes to hear the evidence largely in public. It will then be for him to consider his conclusions.

Crown Prosecution Service

34. Mr. Waterson : To ask the Attorney-General if he will make a statement on the restructuring of the Crown prosecution service.

The Attorney-General : I refer my hon. Friend to my earlier reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr. Burns).

Mr. Waterson : I welcome the announcement made by my right hon. and learned Friend a moment ago. Does he agree that the restructuring will produce a more streamlined and effective service to bring to book both serious and less serious criminals in the rising ride of crime that we face at present?

The Attorney-General : My hon. Friend is right to emphasise that the review, coupled with the recent improvement in recruitment in the Crown prosecution service, should play a significant part in helping to reduce delays in the criminal justice system.

Mr. Skinner : Is it not ironic that people who defraud social security to the tune of, say, a couple of hundred pounds a year in most circumstances, are caught and tried while the Crown prosecution service somehow manages to miss the people who make a small fortune out of City fraud? Why is it that the Crown prosecution service allowed Ernest Saunders to get away with most of his sentence? Why did it say that Roger Seelig, who now runs a business, could not continue his trial because of "nervous exhaustion"? Now he is making a big pile. If the Government want to deal with crime, they should start with the big people at the top--their Tory friends.

The Attorney-General : There are two answers to the hon. Gentleman. The first and specific answer is that both the decisions to which he referred, as I should have thought that he realised, were judicial decisions made after careful argument in open court. The second answer is that, in addition to the work done by the Serious Fraud Office, which handles some 50 to 60 large cases a year, the Crown prosecution service handles some 800 to 900 major fraud cases a year. The revised format of the service should also assist in that.

36. Mr. Hawkins : To ask the Attorney-General what was the level of recruitment to the Crown prosecution service in Lancashire in 1991 and 1992 ; and if he will make a statement.

The Solicitor-General : In 1991 the number of lawyers in post in the Lancashire and Cumbria area of the Crown prosecution service increased from 66 to 67. The number of support staff fell from 90 to 88. In 1992, the number of lawyers increased to 76 and support staff to 113.

Mr. Hawkins : I thank my hon. and learned Friend for that answer. Does he agree that one of the ways in which we can improve the standards of the Crown prosecution service and avoid miscarriages of justice such as the recent Newport Crown court low sentence for rape, which has

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caused so much outrage, is to ensure that Crown prosecution service lawyers and other employed barristers are given rights of audience in higher courts, to ensure that they have the standard of training in advocacy to enable them to present cases in the public interest and to the best of their abilities?

The Solicitor-General : That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor and he will no doubt take into account the principles laid down in the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 when he considers whether there is any need for increased rights of audience in the Crown courts.

OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT

European Community

38. Mr. Mullin : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what percentage of United Kingdom aid is given via the EC ; and whether he expects this to change in the next five years.

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Douglas Hurd) : In 1991-92 approximately 20 per cent. of British aidto developing countries was provided through the EC. During the period up to 1996, covered in the Chancellor's autumn statement, this proportion is likely to increase, but it is too early to make predictions.

Mr. Mullin : Is the Foreign Secretary aware of concern among aid agencies that as the European Community's aid budget increases, there will be a corresponding reduction in the bilateral aid budget, and that since bilateral aid is one of the most effective ways to dispense aid, and the EC is one of the less effective ways, that is a cause for concern?

Mr. Hurd : I have seen the Christian Aid statement to which the hon. Gentleman is perhaps referring. Of course, it is true that part of our aid is multilateral, since it goes through the European Community or the United Nations and its agencies. It is important that multilateral aid should be as effective as we can help to make it, but it all runs together. For example, the programme in Bosnia of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees is financed partly by the European Community, which is the largest single contributor, and partly by programmes such as our own, but it all goes to the same purpose.

Mr. Anthony Coombs : Will my right hon. Friend confirm the principle that he laid down in a speech two years ago--that non-humanitarian aid to developing countries will depend on their human rights record? Will he consider the question of

non-humanitarian aid to Ghana and Indonesia, as the latter annexed East Timor five years ago and is oppressing the population there?

Mr. Hurd : Yes, we apply that principle and my hon. Friend knows of examples where we have done so, especially in Africa. I have nothing to say about aid to Indonesia, but I was in Ghana recently and think that President Rawlings needs and deserves encouragement, in particular because of his economic policy and his proclaimed intention of opening the door to consultation with the opposition.

Mr. Meacher : How does the right hon. Gentleman justify his policy of cutting the aid budget to Africa

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substantially in real terms during the next three years while sharply increasing aid to eastern and central Europe? How does he justify using aid moneys to pay exorbitant consultancy fees to the former Soviet Union this year, and to justify the press release issued by the Overseas Development Administration this week with the headline, "Britain gives £1.5 million to help with Polish mass privatisation"? We have always known that the Tories never favoured aid in the first place, but is that not the most dishonest and disreputable distortion of the aid budget that can possibly be imagined?

Mr. Hurd : The hon. Member is hopelessly out of date. He cannot have been in eastern Europe lately. The know-how fund has been one of the most successful forms of British aid in recent years. Because of the success of our privatisations, the sort of programme that the Poles and others most desperately require from us is help with theirs--they are after privatisation and not nationalisation.

Mr. Bowis : Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the rules governing aid from the European Community are no less stringent in relation to human rights? In that context, what pressure is the Community, as well as Britain, able to exert on the Government of Sudan to ensure that the record on human rights in the south of that country meets the requirements of those rules?

Mr. Hurd : I agree with my hon. Friend, and this is something on which we agreed in the Community. Alas, we have felt bound to suspend virtually all our aid to the Sudan, except humanitarian aid, in an effort to show that country that its present record on human rights and good government in general is not acceptable either to us or to our friends.

World Bank

39. Mr. Denham : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what measures he proposes to take to increase the accountability of United Kingdom representatives to the World bank to the United Kingdom Parliament.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Mark Lennox-Boyd) : The World bank is accountable to its shareholders, including the United Kingdom. The Government are accountable to Parliament for payments made to the bank as part of our overseas aid programme.

Mr. Denham : Does the Minister accept that the World bank, through its structural adjustment lending and project lending, has a far greater influence on the policies of many developing countries than our own inadequate bilateral aid programme has? In the light of that and of the recent Wappenhams report, "Inside the World Bank", which showed that more than half its projects are failing in social, environmental and economic terms, is it not a disgrace that the House has virtually no opportunity to discuss what the British Government are doing in the bank and the changes that we may seek to make to it? Would the Minister consider having an annual debate in the House on the policies of the World bank, which should include prior discussion of the main policies that the Government intend to follow in that institution?

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Mr. Lennox-Boyd : The purpose of questions and debates in the House of Commons is to make the British Government accountable. The hon. Gentleman can initiate a debate if he wishes. If he wishes to know about actions by the British Government in support of environmental considerations, he need only take note of our opposition to the Narmada project in India, where we have taken an extremely robust line. We have made it clear that there must be great progress by April on environmental and other matters of resettlement if funding is to continue.

Somalia

40. Mr. Harry Greenway : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many British aid workers are currently estimated to be working in Somalia ; what is the nature of their work ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Many British and international relief agencies operating in Somalia employ British nationals in a wide range of activities, but it is impossible to estimate their numbers.

Mr. Greenway : Does my hon. Friend agree that the British contribution to the relief effort in Somalia is quite outstanding in economic and personnel terms? Will my hon. Friend particularly commend the wonderful work of Sean Devereux and other aid workers? Will the increased numbers of British forces enable some troops to go to Somalia to defend aid workers where appropriate?

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Yes. Operation Restore Hope, in which the United Kingdom has provided tremendous assistance, has, with the United States initiative, been a terrific success. In terms of financial assistance, we are the third largest bilateral donor to the relief effort in Somalia ; more than £40 million worth of relief has been committed in the past 12 months. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the great courage of aid workers in Somalia, including Sean Devereux. I am afraid that only today the deaths of a further five Red Cross employees were announced.

Mr. Mandelson : Did the Minister happen to read the excellent article in Friday's edition of the Financial Times by Mr. Nicholas Hinton, secretary general of the Save the Children Fund? He drew attention to the terrible shortcomings of the United Nations and its agencies in dealing with disasters such as that in Somalia. What steps have the Government taken to co-ordinate with United Nations personnel the much-needed improvement in the

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performance of the United Nations and its agencies to overcome the shortcomings which are so glaringly obvious?

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : As the hon. Gentleman will know, at our instigation a new co-ordinator has been appointed by the United Nations Secretary General and we wish him well. We fully recognise that when the United Nations takes over the operation from the United States that it must be properly funded.

Mr. Lester : Can my hon. Friend give us any idea of our involvement with the United States in planning what will happen when the United States forces withdraw? Many aid agencies, although they have supported the United States intervention in the current situation, are very concerned about what may happen when the forces withdraw.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : It is essential that a clear plan is drawn up for the handover of responsibility from the coalition forces to the United Nations when the former leave. Discussion about that is currently under way and, as I have said, we are pressing for the United Nations to be fully resourced.

Kenya

41. Miss Lestor : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has had with the Kenyan Government about aid policies.

Mr. Hurd : I last discussed aid and related issues with President Moi in Nairobi in September. My noble Friend the Minister for Overseas Development is in Nairobi today. She is talking to President Moi and others about a number of issues, including aid.

Miss Lestor : Bearing in mind that last month, in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox), the Government said that new balance of payments assistance was being withheld pending political and economic reforms in Kenya, and bearing in mind that the political reforms have taken place as a result of the election, will the right hon. Gentleman tell us when he expects the Government to restore new balance of payments assistance?

Mr. Hurd : That will depend largely on how the International Monetary Fund gets on with its review of economic reform. I was glad to hear what the hon. Lady said about the elections. We support the Commonwealth observers' conclusion, but we hope that President Moi will now reach out a hand to the opposition parties there, try to heal the wounds and re-emphasise his stand in favour of unity and reconciliation.

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