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Column 256

So there is no groundswell of support for the measure, even from the employers' organisations.

Mr. Peter Bottomley : I have asked another parliamentary question on the matter. I asked the Secretary of State

"if employers are presently prohibited from checking at any time and at any interval whether any employee maintains consent previously given for deductions of union subscriptions."

My hon. Friend the Minister confirmed that employers could do roughly what they liked. But he went on to say--the hon. Gentleman might like to test the Minister on this--

"Existing law on the operation of the check-off' offers little protection to employees who pay their union subscriptions through the check-off."-- [ Official Report , 9 February 1993 ; Vol. 218, c. 590 .]

Presumably they have all consented to pay. What can he possibly have meant?

Mr. Galbraith : There is no need for me to ask the Minister the question again. He might like to answer it in his reply.

The question remains why trade unions have been taken out and given special consideration in the matter of having to renew an agreement for a financial deduction. Never mind that we are not required to make annual, three-yearly or even 10-yearly renewal of the direct debit arrangements which all of us have for paying electricity bills and gas bills and some of us even for paying Access bills--although not necessarily everyone. Other deductions are made from employees' wages which do not require annual, three-yearly or even 10-yearly renewal. Such deductions include payments to charities. It is not necessary for them to be renewed every three years. Why are they different? They also include deductions for sports club subscriptions. Why do not they have to be renewed every year? Why is it that the trade unions have been singled out? What is the basis of the measure? Is some abuse of the system taking place? If so, let the Minister tell us what it is and why he is not taking corrective action. In our view, if there is abuse, those involved in it are breaking the law and it is up to the Government to ensure that the law is enforced. If that is not the case and he cannot give us the details of any abuse, why does he persist with the measure? Is the reason that suggested by the hon. Member for Teignbridge (Mr. Nicholls) and that which the Minister slightly suggested again tonight? The employers are under no obligation to operate check-off. Therefore, the Government hope that if they make it bureaucratically difficult, employers will stop operating it and so damage the trade unions. Of course, that is just a cynical view not held widely among Opposition Members. We think it is a piece of utter stupidity introduced by the Minister with no justification whatever. That is the reason why we shall ask the House to support amendment No. 83 in the Lobby tonight.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Peter Bottomley : On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May we be sure which amendment we are voting on?

Madam Deputy Speaker : A decision has just been taken on Government amendment No. 17.

Amendments made : No. 18, in page 25, line 10, leave out remains in force' and insert is current'.

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Column 257

No. 19, in page 25, line 11, leave out from beginning to end of line 14 and insert

if that day falls within the period of three years beginning with the date of the document containing the authorisation and subsection (3A) does not apply.'-- [Mr. Michael Forsyth.]

Amendment proposed : No. 83, in page 25, line 13, leave out three' and insert ten'.-- [Mr. Dobson.]

Question put, That the amendment be made :--

The House divided : Ayes 259, Noes 296.

Division No. 154] [11.29 pm

AYES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Adams, Mrs Irene

Ainger, Nick

Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)

Allen, Graham

Alton, David

Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)

Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale)

Armstrong, Hilary

Ashton, Joe

Austin-Walker, John

Barnes, Harry

Barron, Kevin

Battle, John

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, Margaret

Beggs, Roy

Beith, Rt Hon A. J.

Benn, Rt Hon Tony

Bennett, Andrew F.

Benton, Joe

Bermingham, Gerald

Berry, Dr. Roger

Betts, Clive

Blunkett, David

Boateng, Paul

Bottomley, Peter (Eltham)

Boyce, Jimmy

Boyes, Roland

Bray, Dr Jeremy

Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E)

Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)

Burden, Richard

Byers, Stephen

Caborn, Richard

Callaghan, Jim

Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)

Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)

Campbell-Savours, D. N.

Canavan, Dennis

Cann, Jamie

Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry)

Chisholm, Malcolm

Clapham, Michael

Clark, Dr David (South Shields)

Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)

Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)

Clelland, David

Clwyd, Mrs Ann

Coffey, Ann

Connarty, Michael

Cook, Robin (Livingston)

Corbett, Robin

Corbyn, Jeremy

Corston, Ms Jean

Cousins, Jim

Cox, Tom

Cryer, Bob

Cummings, John

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Cunningham, Dr John (C'p'l'nd)

Dafis, Cynog

Dalyell, Tam

Darling, Alistair

Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)

Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)

Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)

Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)

Denham, John

Dixon, Don

Dobson, Frank

Donohoe, Brian H.

Dowd, Jim

Dunnachie, Jimmy

Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eastham, Ken

Etherington, Bill

Evans, John (St Helens N)

Ewing, Mrs Margaret

Fatchett, Derek

Field, Frank (Birkenhead)

Fisher, Mark

Flynn, Paul

Foster, Derek (B'p Auckland)

Foster, Don (Bath)

Foulkes, George

Fraser, John

Fyfe, Maria

Galbraith, Sam

Galloway, George

Gapes, Mike

Garrett, John

Gerrard, Neil

Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John

Godman, Dr Norman A.

Godsiff, Roger

Golding, Mrs Llin

Gordon, Mildred

Gould, Bryan

Graham, Thomas

Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)

Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)

Grocott, Bruce

Gunnell, John

Hain, Peter

Hall, Mike

Hanson, David

Hardy, Peter

Harman, Ms Harriet

Harvey, Nick

Henderson, Doug

Heppell, John

Hill, Keith (Streatham)

Hinchliffe, David

Hoey, Kate

Hood, Jimmy

Howarth, George (Knowsley N)

Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)

Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)

Hughes, Roy (Newport E)

Hume, John

Hutton, John

Ingram, Adam

Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)

Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H)

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