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Mr. Vaz : Does the Minister recall telling local authority leaders in November that he would review the list of urban programme authorities in the new year, using the 1991 census? Will he explain why the consultation paper arrived only in April, four months after it was promised, and why local authorities have been given only weeks to respond to a very important area of policy? Is not it the case that the delay in publishing this document is a result of the Minister's desire to manipulate the criteria for political ends and to provide excuses for his savage cuts in inner-city aid?
Mr. Squire : The hon. Gentleman must have misheard my earlier answer. I agree with him only on the importance of this programme. There is no delay. Matters are on target. It takes a little time to incorporate the entire results from the 1991 census, which will rightly guide us in this review. We have consulted local authorities, as I assume the hon. Gentleman wishes us to do, and we shall produce our final proposals later this year. The hon. Gentleman should not worry, because we are on target and our advice will be the best possible and will be triggered by the latest possible information.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton : Does my hon. Friend accept that recreation and leisure areas and parkland are vital to urban areas? The question is not just about the urban programme and allied policies but about urban policies in general. The inspectorate of his Department often appears only too ready to grant planning permission to public bodies such as health authorities that are seeking to develop vital and important open areas within centres such as the borough and town of Macclesfield. Such areas are vital for recreation and as parkland, and they enhance the environment of our town centres. Will my hon. Friend seek to prevail upon his inspectorate and direct his attention to these vital policies? We do not want every area of green within cities to be covered by housing.
Mr. Squire : My hon. Friend the Minister for Housing, Planning and Construction has heard my hon. Friend's question and has confirmed to me that the latest
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document, PPG17, specifically addresses that point. I agree with my hon. Friend on the wider issue of the importance of recreation. Hon. Members from Sheffield or near Sheffield will know about the substantial work by the development corporation there which is transforming old, derelict areas into excellent open spaces for recreation.Council Tax
11. Mr. Salmond : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what is his latest estimate of the average level of the council tax ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Redwood : The average headline council tax for two or more adults in a band C dwelling in England is £506.
Mr. Salmond : The Minister will be aware of major demonstrations against council tax levels which took place in the Western Isles. Is he aware that even after the cuts in council tax that followed, which will clearly have a significant implication for services in the islands, someone in a £40,000 house in the Western Isles will still pay £110 more than someone in the Prime Minister's constituency of Huntingdon? Does the Minister think that the surcharge that the Western Isles are paying over Huntingdon is reasonable, equitable, just and defensible, or does he think that it means that Huntingdon is getting too much public support and that the Western Isles is getting too little?
Mr. Redwood : The hon. Gentleman is badly misinformed about the relative levels of grant support. Scottish authorities receive £1,013 per head in external support--47 per cent. more than English local authorities, which receive £689 a head. Even allowing for some difference in functions, that is a big increase over the English figure. The hon. Gentleman should take up his argument in Scottish Question Time, and with those who are trying to lead the Western Isles council. The electors in the Western Isles knew where to lay the blame. They knew that it lay with the council, which is beginning to respond.
Mr. Clappison : Will the Minister confirm that not only is band C council tax £107 more under Labour authorities than it is under Conservative authorities, but that the 10 highest council taxes have all been set by Labour authorities? Does he agree that this is no mere coincidence, but compelling evidence that Labour authorities are profligate spenders and that value for money is an alien concept to them?
Mr. Redwood : My hon. Friend is right. All 10 of the highest English council tax rates have been set by Labour local authorities. Practically every one of those authorities not only gets more grant than the average but, in most cases, gets massively more than the average because the Government recognise some special factors. However, the councillors are not able to use all the extra money to the benefit of their local taxpayers and provide good-quality services.
Mr. Milburn : Is the Minister aware that of the 1,800 inquiries received by Darlington council about the disabled persons reduction scheme, 1,500 came from people placed in band A? Does he recognise that his refusal to extend the scheme to those living in band A properties short changes those who are in most need of assistance to pay their bills? Will he consider introducing a new council
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tax band of A minus to assist my constituents and those of other hon. Members who, through no fault of their own, are losing out?Mr. Redwood : The idea of disablement relief on houses in different council tax banks is that it should come into operation where a disabled person has had to spend extra on improving the house to cope with the disability. For those on low incomes, who are already rated in the lowest band, there are many other ways in which they can get help, such as through disability benefit and council tax benefit. We wish to ensure that people on low incomes are not penalised, and there is a generous scheme to do that. If the issue is whether somebody has been put into a higher band by virtue of the disability, that element in help for disabled people can be given only to those in the higher band. Like Opposition Members, I wish to help the disabled. That is why we have a series of measures to help them, geared to income and house values.
Bathing Water Quality
12. Mr. Michael Brown : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment how many bathing waters were designated by Her Majesty's Government for the purposes of the 1975 EC bathing waters directive by May 1979.
Mr. Howard : No bathing waters had been identified by May 1979 as within the scope of the bathing waters directive.
Mr. Brown : Can my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that the position has changed, although Cleethorpes is not yet up to standard? Perhaps he might like to consider taking one of his holidays in Cleethorpes. The Prime Minister has already said, in a reply to me earlier this year, that he hopes to visit Cleethorpes. Can my right hon. and learned Friend, if he comes to Cleethorpes, hold out the prospect that, by 1995, there is every probability that our beaches will be able to hold their own with the rest of the United Kingdom? Can he also confirm that, this year, Cleethorpes expects to receive the greatest number of tourists ever? Clean beaches would put the icing on the cake of that great tourist achievement.
Mr. Howard : I very much look forward to visiting Cleethorpes, although my hon. Friend has a somewhat exaggerated notion of the number of holidays that I take during the year. I can confirm that we expect the bathing beaches of Cleethorpes fully to meet the standards of the European bathing waters directive by 1995. I am delighted to hear what he has told me about the number of tourists that Cleethorpes intends to entertain over the summer and I am sure that they will benefit from all the facilities that the resort has to offer.
Mr. Dafis : Does the Secretary of State accept that it is unreasonable for funding for the kind of environmental improvements covered by the directive to be provided in such a way as to have a terrible effect on water bills, with the impact that has on low-income families? Would not it be reasonable for at least some of that funding to come from the public purse? Is such funding already given or would it be possible?
Mr. Howard : The hon. Gentleman must accept that the resources for the public purse come from his constituents, just as much as the money for the bills that they have to
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pay for improved water systems. It is no use the hon. Gentleman or other Opposition Members proclaiming the need for higher standards without being prepared to make available the resources necessary if those standards are to be achieved.Mr. Allason : My right hon. and learned Friend will be aware that Torbay enjoys the cleanest beaches and quite the best bathing water in the country. Is he aware also that a large burden is placed on South West Water chargepayers, who are obliged to pay for what is, in effect, a national asset? Will my right hon. and learned Friend kindly visit Torbay this summer, swim in our water, and then examine our water charges?
Mr. Howard : I am grateful to all hon. Friends who want me to spend an ever-increasing number of holidays in their constituencies. I agree entirely with my hon. Friend's remarks about the excellent quality of Torbay's beaches, and I know of, and have some sympathy with, his concerns about the level of bills in the south-west. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister indicated recently that we are examining those matters.
Ms Short : Does the Secretary of State agree that of interest is not whether he is willing to visit Cleethorpes but whether he is willing to swim there--and whether he is worried that he might be swimming in sewage? That is the issue of concern to people throughout the country. Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman have any plans to enforce the directive's guidelines, rather than just its minimum standards? There is evidence that enforcing only the minimum standards still leads to sickness caused by sewage problems. Will the Secretary of State confirm that Britain's 400 designated areas will reach the minimum standard by 1995 or will he renege on that standard? Does he agree with the Marine Conservation Society that it would be reasonable to ask the big 10 privatised water companies to reduce their returns to shareholders, to achieve decent minimum bathing standards?
Mr. Howard : I am not persuaded that the present mandatory--not minimum--standards are in any way inadequate to provide the quality of bathing beaches that we require. We are making excellent progress. Very few of our bathing beaches no longer reach the standard, and I hope that they will all meet it in 1995. Perhaps the hon. Lady will come with me to Cleethorpes.
Council Tax
13. Lady Olga Maitland : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will list the 10 local authorities with the highest level of council tax.
Mr. Redwood : The 10 local authorities in England with the highest average headline council taxes are as follows. I give the band C values, but at all levels they are the highest. Harlow--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour"]--£878 ; Newcastle upon Tyne--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--£704 ; Greenwich--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."] --£696 ; Manchester--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--£656 ; Haringey--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--£646 ; Liverpool--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--£645 ; Camden--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--£638 ; North Tyneside--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--£628 ; Salford--[ Hon. Members : -- "Labour."]- -£628 ; and Derwentside--[ Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]-- £626.
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Lady Olga Maitland : I thank my hon. Friend for that revealing answer. Will he be kind enough to name the 10 local authorities having the lowest levels of council tax?
Mr. Redwood : Without prior notice, that could be difficult, but I have a list that I prepared earlier for my hon. Friend. There is Wellingborough-- [Hon. Members :-- "Conservative."]--there is--
Madam Speaker : Order. I am looking at the clock. We must speed up.
Mr. Redwood : There are also Westminster, Isles of Scilly, City of London, Hambleton, Hinckley and Bosworth, Huntingdon, Basingstoke and Deane, South Cambridgeshire and Fareham.
Mr. Straw : Is the Minister aware that according to his own Department's figures for average household bills, there are twice as many Tory councils as Labour councils in the 50 most expensive areas and that among the 50 least
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expensive areas for average bills there are twice as many Labour as Tory councils, including Southampton-- [Hon. Members :--"Labour."]--Lincoln-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--Stoke-on-Trent-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--Corby-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--Great Yarmouth-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]-- Bradford-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--Plymouth-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--York-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--Slough-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--and Norwich-- [Hon. Members :-- "Labour."]--all with bills way below the average Tory bill of £465. It is Labour which serves us better and costs us less.
Mr. Redwood : In any band that we care to choose, Labour costs us more and Conservatives cost us less. The hon. Gentleman has not understood that point, after a long session today, but we are going to go on saying it all the way up to 6 May, because it is the truth and the voters will respond.
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