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The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Nicholas Soames) : An unaccustomed suit

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Mr. Boateng : Not "suit" ; I said "seat". The suit, I fear, is of a quality and nature to which we are only too well accustomed. It is good to see the hon. Gentleman in his seat. He will know that the problems of Crawley are not very different from the problems of similar towns throughout the land in terms of law and order and the safety and security of the inhabitants.

Will the Government begin to take on board some good practice? Would it not be good practice to implement locally based crime prevention policies? Would it not be good practice for there to be a statutory requirement for local authorities, backed up by proper resourcing, to have such policies implemented?

Would it not be good practice for the youth service to be put on a statutory footing? Would it not be good news if the Minister and his colleagues were prepared to announce their backing for the initiative of my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford (Mr. Lloyd) in that regard? I declare an interest as a vice-president of the London Association of Youth Clubs. Would that not respond to the call from those concerned with youth provision throughout the country for just such a measure, which would provide a structure for local youth work? That in turn would provide security for the valuable work being done by youth clubs and organisations. We could do with some good practice from the Governmnent in that regard.

Would it not be a good idea if the Government buried their obsessive dislike of local authorities and recognised, in a code of practice of this sort, the valuable role that local authorities play in real partnership with others? Would it not be good practice if the Government sponsored important and valuable initiatives, instead of laying down strictures for local businesses? Would not it be good practice if the Government said to local businesses, "We value and appreciate the sponsorship that we are asking you to give, and that you are giving as best you can in these recession-ridden times, to local initiatives, but we will play our part, too. We will enter a partnership with you and local authorities in undertaking crime prevention on the ground"?

In terms of my local authority, I cannot be alone in having a chamber of commerce that takes crime prevention seriously, especially in the major shopping centres at Wembley and Harlesden. That can be replicated in the constituencies of hon. Members on both sides of the House. There is only a limited amount of money that local businesses are capable of generating in that regard. They are happy to take a leadership role, but they need to know that there is some hope that the Home Office will join them and the police in supplementing the resources that are available.

The work of voluntary organisations is valuable and much needed. The voluntary ethic has a vital role to play in the battle against crime and creating safe and secure communities. However, it also requires a framework, and new clause 1 provides just that. The "other measures for the prevention of crime and reoffending" in new clause 1 relate to the partnership that can be built between local authorities, the police, the courts and voluntary organisations when there is the will to ensure that there is a way to do so. A code of practice would bring that about.

Obviously, the role of the courts is important. Hon. Members on both sides of the House have referred to that role and the limitation that is inevitably placed on the courts in the implementation of the aims and objectives of

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the Bill and the proposed working of new clause 1. At present, they make disposals only with regard to offenders who are brought before them. That matter was touched on by the hon. Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Shersby), who expressed a concern that is widely held by the police, and by my hon. Friends the Members for Warwickshire, North (Mr. O'Brien) and for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael). Such lamentable circumstances exist up and down the country. Time and time again, the lists for the Crown court and the magistrates court have vacant spaces ; at the same time, the perception of those who serve as magistrates and those who serve on juries up and down the country is that the level of crime in their communities is increasing. The court lists have never had more vacant spaces or been shorter than they are at present.

5.45 pm

We are entitled to ask why. We will continue to ask that question at the Dispatch Box and elsewhere until we get a satisfactory answer. Why does such a level of crime exist? Given the public perception and fear of crime that exist at present, vacant spaces in the lists of the magistrates court and the Crown court and disposals that are meeting the needs and concerns of society, why are so few cases being brought before the courts and so few criminals emerging at the end of the criminal justice system? Why do Ministers fail time and time again to provide any answer on that?

We hear vague mutterings about paperwork. Paperwork is a problem. However, it is important that the police are not burdened with unnecessary paperwork. That matter must be addressed. From time to time, cautioning is mentioned. Rightly and properly, the police are increasingly using the cautioning mechanism. However, that does not account for the lack of work that is currently in the magistrates court and the Crown court.

Ministers should be asking themselves and the Crown prosecutor why that is happening. What is the explanation for the lack of work currently before the courts? In Committee and on the Floor of the House, the answer that we received from Conservative Members was, "None." It may be that we will receive some response from the Government today. If and when we receive such a response, that may help the House to adopt policies that ensure that current levels of crime are borne down and the morale of the police is boosted. At present, morale is adversely affected because the police apprehend offenders and bring their force to bear on offending, only to find that the Crown Prosecution Service, for whatever reason, does not carry cases through.

The code of practice provided for in new clause 1 would bring all the elements of the criminal justice system--the courts, the police and the local authorities--together in an appropriate liaison, so that problems on the ground could be more readily identified and the necessary action taken to alleviate them.

This has been a useful debate. We have addressed in some detail the proposals of, admittedly, a modest new clause. The way in which the Government have approached the new clause--dismissing it out of hand and failing to recognise its wisdom or to move in any way towards it--is a cause of considerable disappointment. However, it is par for the course for a Government who have witnessed, since coming into office, a 120 per cent. increase in offences involving violence against the person ; a 149 per cent. increase in burglaries ; a 162 per cent.

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increase in vehicle crime ; a 182 per cent. increase in criminal damage offences ; and a 324 per cent. increase in the incidence of robbery.

Mr. Gordon McMaster (Paisley, South) : Does my hon. Friend agree that, while the crime rate has been increasing, the police have spent an increasing amount of time in court waiting rooms, waiting to give evidence which is often never heard? Surely that should be the subject of liaison between the courts and the police. The chief constable of Strathclyde has estimated that, on some day shifts, up to 30 per cent. of police officers are sitting in court waiting rooms.

Mr. Boateng : My hon. Friend has drawn on his experience in Glasgow to make a useful point, which identifies precisely the sort of issue that should be addressed by a code of practice.

The issue of liaison between the police and the courts should be addressed. No doubt my hon. Friend will be able to draw on his experience of the sessional court in Paisley to tell us how the local police service is informed about the state of the court lists. I know of two recent cases that were listed for trial in the same court at 10.30 in the morning. When both cases were effective, the officers required to give evidence in the second case were obliged to hang around in the lobby of the court--while all sorts of mischief may have been going on in their local manor--until their case was called. That happens time and again.

Mr. McMaster : Does my hon. Friend agree that, if everyone were given the same appointment time of 10.30 in the morning under the health service charter, that would not be acceptable to the Government? Surely practical and sensible steps could be taken to establish regular liaison between the prosecution service and the police. Would not this code of practice ensure that the best practice was always followed?

Mr. Boateng : I wish that my hon. Friend's expertise had been available when we considered the contents of the code of practice. I hope that any code of practice promulgated under the new clause will contain a little more bite, and be a little more realistic, than the discredited citizens charter. It reached its nadir when it was

Madam Deputy Speaker : Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not be tempted down that path. What he is now discussing is far removed from the clause under consideration.

Mr. Boateng : I did say "nadir" not "Nadir". I recognise only too well, as the clock approaches 6 o'clock, the dangers of being drawn down that path.

Any code of practice arising from the acceptance of the new clause would be subject to the courts charter, and I hope that that charter will be given more substance.

A number of Conservative Members, who represent the shires and small towns, are no doubt here because of their interest in this subject, and a desire to reassure their constituents of their concern for law and order. Such hon. Members will no doubt be interested to hear how the small towns and shire counties compare with other areas in respect of the increase in crime. The number of recorded burglaries in the shires since 1979 makes salutary reading.

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In Staffordshire, for example, the number of burglaries committed has increased by 302 per cent.--

Madam Deputy Speaker : Order. The hon. Gentleman will recall that his hon. Friend the Member for Warwickshire, North (Mr. O'Brien) went down that road, and that I suggested that it was wide of the clause. What is applicable to Back Benchers is applicable to those on the Front Bench.

Mr. Boateng : Quite so, Madam Deputy Speaker. I regard myself as suitably chastened.

How will such crime be addressed under the new clause? our approach to crime prevention does not eschew the nuts and bolts of the issue. Local authorities have a role to play in ensuring that the police--and the expertise they have available through the nuts and bolts of crime prevention measures--have access to those areas most severely affected by burglaries.

Local authority premises can be used to disseminate information relating to crime prevention ; local authority dust carts can be used to display information about the basic steps that can be taken by people to secure their own homes. It is very simple stuff, but it is important to get the message home andl6 pm

During this debate, we have covered fully the nuts and bolts of crime prevention. We have demonstrated only too clearly the importance of ensuring that there is in place a code of practice bringing together local authorities, the police and the courts in an effective partnership against crime. That is the way forward to counteract recidivism and ensure that the importance of bearing down effectively on crime always remains at the forefront of the minds of the courts and those concerned with the criminal justice system. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time :

The House divided : Ayes 231, Noes 278.

Division No. 310] [6.00 pm

AYES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Adams, Mrs Irene

Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)

Allen, Graham

Alton, David

Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)

Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale)

Armstrong, Hilary

Ashton, Joe

Austin-Walker, John

Barron, Kevin

Battle, John

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret

Bell, Stuart

Benn, Rt Hon Tony

Bennett, Andrew F.

Benton, Joe

Bermingham, Gerald

Berry, Dr. Roger

Betts, Clive

Blair, Tony

Blunkett, David

Boateng, Paul

Boyes, Roland

Bradley, Keith

Bray, Dr Jeremy

Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E)

Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)

Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)

Burden, Richard

Byers, Stephen

Caborn, Richard

Callaghan, Jim

Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)

Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)

Campbell-Savours, D. N.

Cann, Jamie

Chisholm, Malcolm

Clapham, Michael

Clark, Dr David (South Shields)

Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)

Clelland, David

Clwyd, Mrs Ann

Coffey, Ann

Cohen, Harry

Corbett, Robin

Corbyn, Jeremy

Corston, Ms Jean

Cousins, Jim

Cryer, Bob

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Dafis, Cynog

Dalyell, Tam

Darling, Alistair

Davidson, Ian

Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)

Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)

Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)

Denham, John

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Column 863

Dewar, Donald

Dixon, Don

Dobson, Frank

Donohoe, Brian H.

Dowd, Jim

Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eastham, Ken

Etherington, Bill

Evans, John (St Helens N)

Fatchett, Derek

Faulds, Andrew

Field, Frank (Birkenhead)

Fisher, Mark

Flynn, Paul

Foster, Rt Hon Derek

Foster, Don (Bath)

Foulkes, George

Fraser, John

Fyfe, Maria

Galbraith, Sam

Galloway, George

Gapes, Mike

Garrett, John

George, Bruce

Gerrard, Neil

Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John

Golding, Mrs Llin

Gordon, Mildred

Gould, Bryan

Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)

Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)

Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)

Grocott, Bruce

Gunnell, John

Hain, Peter

Hall, Mike

Hanson, David

Harman, Ms Harriet

Harvey, Nick

Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy

Henderson, Doug

Heppell, John

Hill, Keith (Streatham)

Hinchliffe, David

Hoey, Kate

Hoon, Geoffrey

Howarth, George (Knowsley N)

Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)

Hoyle, Doug

Hutton, John

Illsley, Eric

Ingram, Adam

Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)

Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H)

Jamieson, David

Janner, Greville

Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)

Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mo n)

Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)

Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)

Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)

Jowell, Tessa

Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald

Kennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S)

Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn)

Khabra, Piara S.

Kinnock, Rt Hon Neil (Islwyn)

Kirkwood, Archy

Leighton, Ron

Lestor, Joan (Eccles)

Lewis, Terry

Livingstone, Ken

Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)

Llwyd, Elfyn

Loyden, Eddie

Lynne, Ms Liz

McAllion, John

McAvoy, Thomas

McCartney, Ian

McFall, John

Mackinlay, Andrew

McLeish, Henry

Maclennan, Robert

Madden, Max

Mahon, Alice

Mandelson, Peter

Marshall, David (Shettleston)

Martin, Michael J. (Springburn)

Maxton, John

Meacher, Michael

Meale, Alan

Michael, Alun

Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)

Milburn, Alan

Miller, Andrew

Morgan, Rhodri

Morley, Elliot

Morris, Rt Hon A. (Wy'nshawe)

Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)

Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon)

Mowlam, Marjorie

Mudie, George

Mullin, Chris

Murphy, Paul

O'Brien, Michael (N W'kshire)

O'Brien, William (Normanton)

O'Hara, Edward

Olner, William

O'Neill, Martin

Patchett, Terry

Pendry, Tom

Pickthall, Colin

Pike, Peter L.

Pope, Greg

Powell, Ray (Ogmore)

Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lew'm E)

Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)

Prescott, John

Primarolo, Dawn

Quin, Ms Joyce

Radice, Giles

Randall, Stuart

Raynsford, Nick

Rendel, David

Robertson, George (Hamilton)

Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW)

Roche, Mrs. Barbara

Rogers, Allan

Rooker, Jeff

Rooney, Terry

Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)

Rowlands, Ted

Ruddock, Joan

Sedgemore, Brian

Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert

Shore, Rt Hon Peter

Short, Clare

Simpson, Alan

Skinner, Dennis

Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)

Smith, C. (Isl'ton S & F'sbury)

Smith, Rt Hon John (M'kl'ds E)

Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)

Snape, Peter

Soley, Clive

Spearing, Nigel

Steel, Rt Hon Sir David

Steinberg, Gerry

Stevenson, George

Strang, Dr. Gavin

Straw, Jack

Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury)

Taylor, Matthew (Truro)

Tipping, Paddy

Turner, Dennis

Tyler, Paul

Vaz, Keith

Wardell, Gareth (Gower)

Wareing, Robert N

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