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resources that the Government are putting its way, is making a pretty good pitch at the problem about which the hon. Gentleman talked.Exports
5. Mr. Beggs : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the effectiveness of the present level of support provided by the Industrial Development Board and the Local Enterprise Development Unit to Northern Ireland industry for the purpose of promoting exports outside the United Kingdom.
Mr. Atkins : Both agencies offer a range of export services to Northern Ireland industry, and in the financial year ended 31 March 1993 business worth in excess of £120 million was generated as a direct result of these activities.
Mr. Beggs : I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he join me in congratulating those marketeers who recently have been very successful in winning millions of pounds of export orders for Northern Ireland? Will he seek to ensure that IDB and LEDU make available such assistance as is necessary through export credit guarantees, small firm loans, and so on, and will he undertake to make representations for overseas development aid where that would be helpful?
Mr. Atkins : The hon. Gentleman is at the forefront in helping both agencies to attract foreign business and encourage companies in his constituency and other constituencies in Northern Ireland to expand. His point is understood. I am in constant communication with my predecessor in Northern Ireland, my hon. Friend the Member for Wiltshire, North (Mr. Needham), who is now the Minister for Trade, with a view to encouraging the sort of things for which the hon. Gentleman asks.
Mr. Thurnham : Does my hon. Friend agree that it is most important to build the confidence of business men in Northern Ireland and that the Opposition spokesman, by his performance this afternoon, has shown that nobody would have any confidence in his policies ?
Mr. Atkins : I could not agree more.
Mr. Stott : I am not tempted to follow the Minister down that path ; there will be a time to do so.
Notwithstanding the achievements of the two agencies, to which I pay tribute, the Minister will be aware that the Public Accounts Committee recently concluded that perhaps more than half the new jobs established by LEDU may have been created at the unnecessary cost of displacing existing workers. The report also recommended that both LEDU and the Department of Economic Development continue regularly to seek ways to measure and record the extent of dead weight and displacement.
Given the stringent minimum standards that the Government have recently set for the Northern Ireland Co-operative Development Agency, will the Minister tell the House why he is not applying the same tough tests to LEDU's activities ?
Mr. Atkins : I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's compliments to the agencies ; he knows what they achieve. Of course, nothing is perfect in this world, and mistakes were made in the way in which LEDU operated. As a result of the investigation, a number of the changes that
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were recommended by the Committee have now been implemented. I invite the hon. Gentleman, if he would like to do so, to see for himself exactly what LEDU has been achieving and to learn of the detailed changes that have been made. He can rest assured that the points were well made by the Committee and have been taken into account.Security
6. Mr. Luff : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation on Northern Ireland.
Sir Patrick Mayhew : Since I answered a similar question on 22 April, there have been 10 deaths as a result of the security situation in Northern Ireland--eight civilians and two soldiers. The Government remain committed to the defeat of terrorism in Northern Ireland, whichever organisation perpetrates it, through the even-handed and energetic enforcement of the rule of law. For as long as terrorist violence continues, it will be met with a firm and resolute response.
Mr. Luff : I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that answer. I invite him to join me in paying tribute to the security forces, who daily must deal with that tragic situation. Does he feel that their task is made easier or more difficult by the kind of ideas that are being touted around by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara), in secret?
Sir Patrick Mayhew : Of course I endorse the tribute that my hon. Friend paid to the security forces. The vast majority are very young men and women. We ask them to make discretionary decisions that carry very heavy sanctions if they get them wrong : if they get them wrong one way, they may be court-martialled ; if they get them wrong another way, they may be prosecuted ; and if they get them wrong another way, they may be dead. I warmly endorse what my hon. Friend said about the amazingly high standard of their performance. We have rehearsed the second part of my hon. Friend's question fairly fully this afternoon. I would add only that anything that contributes to any uncertainty about whether the constitutional status of Northern Ireland will change without the consent of the majority of those who live there must make the task of the security forces harder.
Mr. William Ross : When the Secretary of State and the Minister of State visited Magherafelt and Coleraine in my constituency last week, they had an opportunity to see the results-- [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker : Order. Will the House settle down? It is very difficult to hear the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Ross : When they visited Magherafelt and Coleraine in my constituency last week, they had an opportunity to see at first hand the results of the IRA's managing to penetrate the security measures that have been taken. Were they both very much impressed, as I was, by the efforts that are being made by local people to repair and replace buildings?
Will the Secretary of State take a careful look at the cost of rebuilding, the question of betterment and all the other problems that revolve around the replacement, refurbishment and repair of damage done by terrorist bombs? We
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sometimes feel that good money is being thrown after bad to repair buildings that it would probably be better to knock down and rebuild.Sir Patrick Mayhew : I warmly endorse what the hon. Gentleman said about the qualities of his constituents following those outrageous attacks. I recently visited Coleraine, where I met the hon. Gentleman, for the third time since the bomb in November. I know the scheme about which he is talking. I realise that it is very attractive and that it offers great potential for the town of Coleraine. The hon. Gentleman has already, very fairly, alluded to the importance of maintaining the distinction between repairing and compensation for damage, and betterment of property. It may be enough to say that I fully recognise the strength of feeling that he represented in his question this afternoon.
PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Paice : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 1 July.
The Prime Minister (Mr. John Major) : This morning, I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Paice : Will my right hon. Friend find time today to assure the people of Ulster that this Government are totally committed to the Union? Will he also point out to them that the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) has a plot to ditch them? The leader of the Labour party should either support that betrayal of the people of Ulster or sack his spokesman.
The Prime Minister : The Union is vital for all parts of the United Kingdom. It has the democratic approval of the people of Northern Ireland and we in the Conservative and Unionist party stand four-square behind it. I am aware of the opinions that have been attributed to the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North. I believe that he has proposed "shared responsibility", which "would have to be imposed against the wishes of a majority of Northern Ireland's citizens."
Frankly, I think that that is appalling. The hon. Gentleman also complains that progress in Northern Ireland could strengthen the Union, and he certainly appears to regret that. I assume that can mean only that the Labour party has abandoned its manifesto commitment to consensus and that it wants to promote a united Ireland through economic deprivation. If those are the Labour party's policies, they are cynical and shameful and are a betrayal of democracy and of the people of Northern Ireland.
Mr. John Smith rose--
Madam Speaker : Order. Settle down now.
Mr. Smith : Following the revelation that the taxpayer was defrauded -- [Interruption.]
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Madam Speaker : Order. The House must settle down and listen not only to answers but to questions, too--all of you.
Mr. Smith : Following the revelation that the taxpayer was defrauded of £97 million in Britain's biggest ever tax fraud involving Nissan UK and that, during the period in which the fraud was perpetrated, Mr. Octav Botnar gave £1 million to the Conservative party, will the Prime Minister invite the Conservative party to repay that sum to the Inland Revenue?
The Prime Minister : I think that the whole House and the whole country will notice what the right hon. and learned Gentleman did not have to say about his party's policies for Northern Ireland. If his fundamental concept is that we should clean up British politics, I agree. We should, for a start, have rules that no donor can buy votes at a party conference, that no donor should buy votes for the selection of party candidates and that no donor should buy votes for the selection of a party's leader. It is that sort of action, not his sort of smears, that demeans British politics.
Mr. Smith : The House and the country will have noticed that the Prime Minister did not answer the question.
Does not the Prime Minister accept that, as First Lord of the Treasury, his principal responsibility is to the British taxpayer? Should he not be encouraging action to recover money of which the Revenue has been defrauded? Is not that a more important responsibility than defending the finances of the Conservative party?
The Prime Minister : The right hon. and learned Gentleman knows, for I have told him before, that where tainted money has been provided to the Conservative party, we will replace it. I hope that the right hon. and learned Gentleman will now have the grace to accept that. So far as Mr. Botnar is concerned, no doubt the Inland Revenue will pursue that matter. It is a matter for the Inland Revenue.
Mr. Smith : Can the Prime Minister tell us whether the Conservative party received money from Mr. Botnar?
The Prime Minister : I have no idea whether the Conservative party received money from Mr. Botnar around 10 years ago. I am not responsible for that.
Sir Malcolm Thornton : Has my right hon. Friend had the opportunity today to read the report by Ernst and Young entitled "Inward Investment in the 90s--Maintaining the United Kingdom's Lead"? If so, does he agree with its recommendation that one of our main advantages--the flexibility and cost of our labour force--would be placed in considerable jeopardy if we were to accept the social protocol and that that would further undermine the country's lead in attracting inward investment, which we need to maintain the recovery?
The Prime Minister : My hon. Friend is entirely right about that. Our system for encouraging inward investment is second to none. We have received far more inward investment in this country as a result of the policies followed by this Government and their immediate predecessor than any other country in the European Community. Because of those policies, we remain the preferred location for investment in the Community by
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Japan, the United States and many other countries. Policies of excessive social costs and excessive regulation would damage that inward investment and the jobs created by it.Q2. Mr. Beith : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 1 July.
The Prime Minister : I refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave a few moments ago.
Mr. Beith : Will the Prime Minister, recognising the importance to the north-east and to shipbuilding in Britain of the Swan Hunter shipyard, take steps today to make it clear that the frigates that were built by the yard can be completed at the yard? Will he tell the Government of Oman that he has done that, as that would indicate to them that he is confident that the yard can complete the Omani order for which it has tendered and which would otherwise be lost to Britain?
The Prime Minister : The right hon. Gentleman touches on a very important matter. I very much hope that it will be possible to complete the three type 23 frigates at Swan Hunter. The Ministry of Defence is in negotiation with the receiver. Some more detailed work remains to be done, but I suspect that those discussions will be concluded very shortly indeed. If and when agreement on the terms for completing the type 23s has been reached, I will of course ensure immediately that the Omani authorities are informed of that fact. Once Swan Hunter has found a buyer--that is one of the matters of concern to the Omani Government--and is back on a secure financial footing, there is no reason whatsoever why, among seeking other orders, it should not begin once more to tender for orders from the MOD.
Q3. Mr. Bates : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 1 July.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Bates : Would my right hon. Friend agree that excess bureaucracy and over-regulation stifle initiative and efficiency, not only in British industry but in the police force in its battle against crime and the criminal? Is he aware of the remarks made two weeks ago by the chief constable of Dorset police when he pointed out that, for the most simple arrests, the average police officer is required to complete 23 forms and, in the most complex cases, that figure rises to 47 forms? That takes the average police officer off the beat and puts him behind a desk for half a day on average. Does my right hon. Friend agree that such excessive bureaucracy exists, that the average police officer feels deep frustration about it and that it is a source of bewilderment for the public and a source of delight for the criminal?
The Prime Minister : I did see the chief constable's remarks and I am aware of the extent of the bureaucracy facing many officers in the police force. It is partly for that reason that we are seeking to deregulate so substantially. The whole purpose of the series of reforms that my right hon. and learned Friend is now taking forward is to ensure that we have a modern, professional and effective police force with the powers that it needs to deter crime. I share the concerns that are expressed by my hon. Friend and felt by the police force. That is why we are seeking to reform
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and modernise the police force, so that it can concentrate on the job that it is really there for--catching criminals, not filling in forms.Q4. Mr. Chisholm : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 1 July.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Chisholm : Has the Prime Minister seen the report which was published this week by the Day Care Trust, which is funded by the BBC's Children in Need, which analyses the poverty trap faced by a large number of Britain's 1.3 million lone parents and which advocates that income spent on child care should be substantially disregarded in calculating income support or family credit entitlements? Does the Prime Minister support that proposal? Would he prefer to boost the supply of affordable child care, or does he regard child care as one of the byways of politics about which he said on Saturday he would prefer not to be asked?
The Prime Minister : The hon. Gentleman should look at the record of the care and the support that have gone into child care over recent years. Expenditure on families with children now totals nearly £13 billion, a rise of three quarters during the period since the Conservative Government came to office in the late 1970s. The hon. Gentleman would be better served offering support for some of those policies rather than misrepresenting other people's reports.
Mr. Devlin : As today is the end of the first six months of the single market which this country and the Government did so much to bring about, will my right hon. Friend take the opportunity to explain to the people of the north of England the benefits of the single market and re- emphasise the Government's commitment to unfettered markets and free trade?
The Prime Minister : There is absolutely no doubt, not just in this country but in countries all around the world, that free trade increases the volume of trade and, with it, the volume and levels of prosperity. We certainly see within the European Community the increasing advantages of the single market. I am delighted that it was concluded during our presidency of the Community, and I hope that the general principles of free trade will win through in the general agreement on tariffs and trade negotiations that we are currently in the midst of.
Q5. Mr. Pike : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 1 July.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Pike : Will the Prime Minister recognise the widespread concern and anger of people in the north-west, particularly those on low pay--such as nurses and firemen, whose pay was limited to a 1.5 per cent. increase-- at pay increases that were announced by the privatised monopoly, North West Water? It increased payments to its chief executive and management by 43 per cent. in the past year and by 506 per cent. during the recession, over the past five years. Of course, they also have their share options. Will the right hon. Gentleman condemn such action by that privatised industry?
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The Prime Minister : It is not a matter for me to condemn. My responsibility across the public sector is to make sure that we retain proper control of costs, not least to ensure that we provide the services that the public want and not least to ensure that we are able to retain within the public sector the levels of employment that are necessary. The hon. Gentleman should concentrate on that rather than parade yet again his politics of envy.
Mr. Clappison : Is my right hon. Friend aware of recent judicial comments and public concern about the absence of a power for the courts to send persistent juvenile offenders into secure accommodation? Does he agree that it is essential for the courts to have such a power? Does he agree further that the Opposition's refusal to support giving such a power to the courts shows that they totally lack commitment to the fight against crime and that, far from being tough on crime, they are tough only on the victims of persistent juvenile offenders--victims whom they would continue to allow to suffer?
The Prime Minister : As my hon. Friend clearly knows, one of the sectors in which the greatest increase in criminal statistics can be found is in crimes against property by youngsters, largely between the ages of eight and 18. It is for that reason that we are looking at the method of dealing with offenders and, in particular, finding secure accommodation for them. It is our intention to provide such accommodation.
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Q6. Mr. Bayley : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 1 July.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Bayley : Is the Prime Minister aware that ABB Transportation Ltd. is the last surviving company manufacturing railway carriage body shells in Britain and that it recently announced 532 redundancies among the employees at its York works and a further 364 at Crewe and Derby ? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that that situation has arisen because of a haemorrhaging of orders in the run-up to railway privatisation ? Will he do something to stop the next round of job losses, which would mean the closure of the York works and the end of Britain's ability to build railway carriage body shells, which we should be left to import from abroad at yet further expense to our balance of payments ? When will we have more orders ?
The Prime Minister : I find it very strange, on some occasions at the Dispatch Box, to be criticised by Opposition Members for the fact that we appear to have too large a deficit, while on other occasions I am urged to spend more and more money--usually for some particular interest of the hon. Member concerned. I regret very much the job losses at ABB. However, ABB, like every other enterprise in this country, must find its way in the marketplace.
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