House of Commons Hansard Debates for 5 Jul 1993

Mr. Hunt : I shall give way later.

That motion, of course, releases the necessary funds to keep the commitment that was made by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. I shall put the record straight again and report exactly what my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade said in his statement on the coal industry on 25 March. He said : "I cannot guarantee that supplementary sales will be achieved by British Coal."

Later, he said :

"Finally, let me remind the House of what I said earlier. There can be no guarantees. The market for coal is complex and unpredictable. Even among the experts, opinions differ. I have done all that I reasonably could, consistent with economic realities and legal constraints, to increase the opportunities for British Coal. It is now for British Coal to make the most of these opportunities. The outcome will be settled, as it should be, in the marketplace. Our policies will give the industry every chance of strengthening its position and achieving future success. It is now up to the people who work in the industry to build on this."--[ Official Report, 25 March 1993 ; Vol. 221, c. 1230-31.]

I had to quote that statement because the hon. Member for Livingston did not quote Hansard. He confined himself to quoting newspapers. When we quote newspapers, we deny the existence of debates and statements in the House. Nothing could have been clearer than my right hon. Friend's point, and I have quoted it in order to put the record straight.

Mr. Hardy : Is it not incredible that, a few moments ago, the Secretary of State boasted about the vast amount of public money that the Government invested in the coal industry and yet the same Government have been party to rigging the market to prevent the coal industry from taking advantage of the most astonishing increases in productivity to which the right hon. Gentleman might refer? Is the Secretary of State aware that, a few weeks ago, before the President of the Board of Trade was taken ill-- one hopes that he will be quickly back to the House to maintain the debate- -his hon. Friend the Member for Rochford (Dr. Clark) and I were present at a meeting at which the President of the Board of Trade said, "Isn't it a pity that the enormous increase in productivity in the mining industry did not take place earlier ?"

The previous chairman of the board had to get to his feet to contradict the President of the Board's point, because that increase in productivity has been taking place almost consistently for the past four or five years. Having achieved record productivity, unmatched in the rest of British industry, is it wise for the Government to write off their investment in mining communities as they are doing ?

Mr. Hunt : I very much welcome the hon. Gentleman's comments about my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. I am grateful to him for ensuring that they were made by the Opposition. So far as the allegedly rigged market for energy is concerned-- [Interruption.] All right--so far as the rigged market for energy is concerned, it is rigged in favour of coal because--

Mr. Stevenson rose --

Column 51

Mr. Hunt : Let me answer the point.

As the President of the Board of Trade pointed out, there is a subsidy of about £1 billion a year, which goes directly to ensuring that the market is weighted in favour of coal. We are now dealing with a market that is becoming freer, and decisions are being made by energy generators in the context of that freer market.

If Labour Members re-examine the report of the Select Committee on Trade and Industry, they will see that several recommendations have been broadly accepted by the Government. The Government have accepted the first recommendation relating to the reform of working practices. They have accepted the broad thrust of recommendations Nos. 14, 15, 16 and 17 relating to the subsidy for additional sales of coal and recommendations Nos. 27, 28 and 29 relating to the establishment of an independent licensing authority. The White Paper in paragraphs 30 and 31 proposes extra funding for the support of clean coal technology. In the White Paper, the Government have broadly accepted paragraph 32 relating to the annual report of the energy commission and the energy advisory panel.

As I said previously, the future of the coal industry has been debated in a way in which such matters should be debated--with informed reports from Select Committees. However, the Government are not bound to accept all of the recommendations. For example, as my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-West (Dr. Hampson) pointed out earlier, it would be illegal to accept recommendation No. 7. Recommendation No. 11 relates to the reduction in output from opencast mining. I simply ask those Labour Members who are sponsored by the Transport and General Workers Union and who have made it clear that they do not want to see any reduction in jobs in the opencast coal industry and the nuclear industry to reflect for a moment. Trade unions throughout the country have made it clear that they do not want to see any reduction in jobs in the oil and gas industry.

Dr. Hampson : My right hon. Friend will appreciate that the Select Committee tried to strike what we called a "balanced energy policy". In a way, that "balanced energy policy" could be interchanged with what the Leader of the Opposition called an "integrated energy policy" in a debate in December 1975. I remind my right hon. Friend that the Leader of the Opposition said that the Labour Government had

"an effective policy for the development of oil and gas resources but a policy for our coal industry and also for our nuclear industry."

His balance was interesting--he did not put the coal industry first. He said :

"This is a policy of which we should be proud".--[ Official Report, 8 December 1975 ; Vol. 902, c. 164.]

That sort of balance and integration was at the heart of the Select Committee's proposals.

Mr. Hunt : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for putting the record straight.

Mr. Terry Lewis (Worsley) : First, I declare that I am sponsored by the Transport and General Workers Union. I also have a local interest in opencast mining. Many of us are fearful of, and opposed to, the extension of opencast mining on green belt land and land that is contaminated by previous workings. Some of us want to see a more strenuous approach taken by the Secretary of State and his

Column 52

colleagues, especially with regard to mineral planning guidelines, so that local authorities and local communities can make their own decisions--and not be pressed by Whitehall into accepting the national needs as perceived by Ministers--and safeguard the environment at a time when British opencast miners submit their hideous opencast applications.

Mr. Hunt : The hon. Gentleman criticised me previously for the length of my speech. I simply point out to Labour Members that I am prepared to give way, but they must accept that my speech will be much longer as a result-- [Interruption.] I will deal with the point, although the shadow Secretary of State for Employment criticised me for making too long a speech in a previous debate after I had given way to 25 interventions. I believe that Ministers and Opposition spokesmen should give way and I now respond. However, in giving way, I hope that Labour Members will recognise that my speech will be longer as a result.

Mr. Robin Cook rose--

Mr. David Hunt : Let me deal with that point. I understand that the hon. Gentleman has already given considerable advocacy to the views of his constituents on environmental issues not only to the Minister for Energy but to the Secretary of State for the Environment. He will know that there are checks and balances in the system to ensure that environmental considerations are taken properly into account.

Mr. Cook : I think that my hon. Friends are concerned not about the length of the right hon. Gentleman's speech but about the fact that, in the 35 minutes that he has been speaking, he has not once addressed the crisis in the coal industry. If he maintains that the crisis is caused by a free and open market, which I think he referred to earlier, will he now address himself to the central point of our case, which is that British Coal cannot sell coal to the generators at a price that would produce electricity to the consumer at a cheaper price than from any other source?

Mr. Hunt : I have already said that we must deal with a dramatic contraction in the market for coal for electricity generation. To deal with the hon. Gentleman's specific point, my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade made it clear to the House that he accepted the broad thrust of the Select Committee's recommendation that a subsidy should be provided to ensure that genuinely additional sales of coal for electricity generation could be provided by ensuring that the difference between world energy prices and the cost price was covered by such a subsidy.

Mr. Stevenson rose --

Mr. Hunt : I shall deal with the point raised by the hon. Member for Livingston and then I shall give way.

The subsidy is there and available not only to British Coal but to the private sector to ensure that the private sector can take advantage of genuinely additional sales of coal to the electricity generators.

Mr. Robin Cook : The House is aware that the subsidy has been in place since March. The question I put to the Secretary of State is this : now that the subsidy is in place and the price of coal could provide cheaper electricity than any other source, and if it is a fair market, why will the

Column 53

generators not buy it? If the Secretary of State will not answer my question, will he answer the question from ICI? Why is ICI being asked to pay twice the price for electricity that it would pay if the generators bought that coal?

Mr. Hunt : I remember another recommendation made by the Select Committee [Interruption.] This directly answers the point made by the hon. Gentleman. The Select Committee recommended that electricity generators should keep a minimum of 20 million tonnes at the power stations. At present, the figure is 30 million tonnes. That 30 million tonnes at the power stations obviously has an effect on the market. I have made it clear that the subsidy is there. Provided the House approves the subsequent motion on the Order Paper, the subsidy will be in place and the money will be available. It will then be for British Coal to ensure that it secures those additional contracts.

Mr. Cook : I am delighted that the Secretary of State referred to the same commitment that I referred to earlier--that is, that the generators should maintain stocks of not less than 20 million tonnes. Currently, the two generators propose to reduce their stocks to 10 million tonnes. May I take it from what he said that the Government will order the generators to maintain a level of 20 million tonnes, which will release additional markets ?

Mr. Hunt : As far as the tonnages kept at the power stations are concerned, I understand from my hon. Friend the Member for Rochford (Dr. Clark) that we are discussing with the electricity generators what the level should be. What I said is true : although the recommendation was 20 million tonnes, the amount at the generators today is 30 million tonnes.

Dr. Michael Clark (Rochford) : My right hon. Friend has referred to what the Government have offered to do to help British Coal to bring its price down in order to enter markets that would otherwise not be open to it. He has also mentioned that it is up to British Coal to find those markets and, in many ways, I agree with him. Does he accept, however, that it is very difficult for British Coal to find all the markets that it might want for generation if the generators are insistent on building new gas- fired power stations and will not offer coal-fired power stations for sale at a reasonable price ? Would not it help enormously to overcome the problem of finding markets for British Coal if the generators were reminded of their duopoly position and of the obligations they have ? They should be encouraged to sell surplus coal-fired power stations at a realistic asset price rather than try to sell them at a price equivalent to the cost of building new high-technology power stations that those sold-off power stations would then have to compete against ?

Mr. Hunt : My hon. Friend has made an important point that I will bring to the attention of the generators. I will also bring it to the attention of the Director General of Electricity Supply, because, although he is aware of the problem, my hon. Friend's point carries an important message for the industry.

British Coal has opportunities open to it. In the long term, its success will lie in its productivity being continually improved and its overheads reduced. I strongly believe that privatisation is urgently necessary for that industry not only because it will remove the

Column 54

constraints of public ownership but because privatisation will do even more to secure a proper future for our coal industry. If the jobs of miners were preserved artificially, that would be done at the expense, immediately, of employees in other energy industries whether nuclear, gas or opencast.

Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman (Lancaster) : At the expense of gas.

Mr. Hunt : As my hon. Friend has said, it is a fact that every new gas-fired station will result in increasing job opportunities in that industry.

It is most important to offer real hope for the future. That will not be done by seeking to persuade miners that they have long-term employment prospects in an industry faced with a contracting market. They know that themselves. When they go down the pits, they know that most of those pits have a strictly limited life. [ Hon. Members :-- "Come on!"] Oh yes, they do. I have been underground in nearly 30 coal mines and I have seen some wretched conditions caused by narrow seams. I have seen coal produced with high chlorine, sulphur or ash content. I have seen limited seams that offer a limited life. Surely it is far better to keep faith with those we care about in the coal industry by ensuring, now, that we provide jobs for the future by putting the necessary investment into those coal communities to provide additional jobs. My experience as Secretary of State for Wales has led me to the conclusion that one does not keep jobs in the Rhondda valley, for example, where once there were 50 coal mines, but now there are none, by artificially prolonging the life of exhausted pits. One provides jobs for the future by bringing in new industries and providing new high- tech opportunities.

Mr. Winston Churchill (Davyhulme) : My right hon. Friend is speaking as though we had a free and open market in energy supplies, but he knows very well that that is not the case. He knows that the nuclear industry is guaranteed a market for every kilowatt hour that it produces and that the gas industry and Electricite de France have privileged access to energy markets, which are not available to coal.

Three months ago, my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, to whose return to the House and full health we look forward at the earliest opportunity, gave an undertaking that he and the Government would work to widen the market for coal. That action, alone, can secure the future of the 12 so-called reprieved pits. Can my right hon. Friend tell the House what specific steps the Government have taken in those intervening three months to underpin the market for coal? Have they reined in the French connector supplies and, given the prospect of the dash for gas, extended the market for our coal?

Mr. Hunt : A great deal of activity has taken place. It is the party of instant results that has ensured that we debate the subject today. I very much hope that we shall see an opportunity for not only British Coal but the private sector to secure genuine additional sales. We will, of course, continue to strive for that.

I hope that fair-minded Members will acknowledge that, when I was Minister with responsibility for coal, I did my best to secure additional markets for it. In the present mber for Davyhulme (Mr. Churchill) recognises that.

Mr. Allan Rogers (Rhondda) : The Secretary of State has referred to my constituency and I should tell him that it had, at one time, 63 coal mines, and not 50 as he said. He has suggested that he is closing coal mines on two grounds--first, because they have a finite life and, secondly, out of kindness, common humanity, because of their poor conditions. I presume that the right hon. Gentleman will extend that practice to the rest of the United Kingdom and give it the benefit of his humanity as well.

Will the right hon. Gentleman address the issue that is of vital concern to people in the industry, perhaps not those in south Wales, because most of the pits have closed, but certainly in the rest of the United Kingdom? It is no good talking about the finite life of a particular colliery or a particular coalfield when pits with hundreds of years of coal reserves left in them are being closed. If he is hell bent on closing those pits, will he provide some alternative work for the people in that industry, rather than simply deciding to close those pits because of the Government's dogma and their 10-year pursuit of the mining industry?

Mr. Hunt : I recall standing with the hon. Gentleman at Oakdale business park, where a great deal of money has been spent on restoring a derelict site--the old banana tip in Rhondda. I hope that that business park will result in many new jobs coming to the Rhondda valley.

The hon. Gentleman should remember, however, that we are dealing with the market for coal, and not any of the other matters that he sought to attribute to me. I hope that he will accept that Wales offers good examples of communities looking to the future. They are entitled to do so because of the substantial amounts of partnership money that is available through the private sector and the public sector working together. The announcement of £243 million for England and Wales represents such partnership money and is available to provide and secure job opportunities.

Mr. Don Dixon (Jarrow) : Get on with it.

Mr. Hunt : I am still answering the point raised by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Mr. Rogers). I will come to a conclusion in a moment, but it is right to answer the points raised.

I should like to remind the hon. Member for Rhondda that I am proud of the fact that, together with Lord Walker and the then National Coal Board, I created an organisation called British Coal Enterprise Ltd. That organisation has just published its annual review of activities, the eighth such report, for 1992-93 and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will read it. It lists 87,500 job opportunities that have been created since 1984-85. I believe that that is a good result. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman should not allow his hon. Friends on the Opposition Benches to belittle the work of British Coal Enterprise Ltd., which has done an excellent job. It will continue to have the full support of the Government.

Mr. Cash : I, too, pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for the work that he did in his previous capacity. Indeed, he

Column 56

and I worked very closely together in relation to the coal strike of 1984. I pay tribute to him also for his work in connection with British Coal Enterprise.

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of this country's main difficulties is the increasing level of public expenditure? Does he know that, in terms of central Government expenditure alone, the cost of closing the mine at Trentham, let alone the one at Silverdale, will be £85 million to £90 million in the first year and that that will be barely offset by the amount of money coming back? Is my right hon. Friend aware of Conservatives' concern about monopolies? The lack of access, under a privatised regime, to the core contracts of mines is itself an offence against the principles that the party stands for. That is compounded by the lack of a level playing field in Europe. My right hon. Friend should understand that some of us who agree with him in respect of many issues take a very strong view about the way in which this whole matter has been dealt with, as it offends Conservative principles above all else.

Mr. Hunt : I want to see a level playing field in Europe. That is why I am very much in favour of the Maastricht treaty, which goes some way towards restoring that situation. My hon. Friend has done a very good job for his local colliery, but he will accept that it lost a considerable sum of money last year. Ultimately, it is for British Coal to determine the future of each colliery.

The future for coal depends on the market--in particular, the tonnages that can be sold to the generators. The Government cannot create an artificial market for coal without damaging many other jobs. Coal must compete with other energy sources. We cannot just pretend that nuclear energy, gas and oil do not exist.

What the Government can do is create the opportunity for additional sales. Following publication of the report of the Select Committee on Trade and Industry, that is exactly what my right hon. Friend did. The subsidy that the Government have made available to British Coal--this is reflected in a later motion on today's Order Paper--will help the company to match world prices for sales over and above their core contracts with the generators. With that subsidy, and with increased productivity, coal has a future. That future will be secured better in the private sector, and the Government will bring forward early legislation on privatisation.

Dr. Kim Howells (Pontypridd) : If that is the case, why is the Aberthaw contract of the Tower colliery, in which there has been considerable investment, and which is one of the last 20 supposed to be safe, being cut by 200,000 tonnes a year? Why has the right hon. Gentleman said nothing about the way in which management--Mr. Neil Clarke and the chairman of the coal board--have backed out of efforts to find new markets and have been absolutely silent on the question of the fight for greater markets for coal? Is there any collusion between the Government and the chairman of the coal board to facilitate a management buy-out?

Mr. Hunt : I gave way to the hon. Gentleman because I have had tremendouse respect for his background in the industry and, indeed, for his valiant fight for the true interests of miners, especially at a very difficult time for the industry. Obviously, decisions about individual collieries must be a matter for British Coal. The hon. Gentleman

Column 57

will remember that when he was involved, in a full-time capacity, with the National Union of Mineworkers, that was always the basis of decisions.

No Government--Labour or Conservative--have ever tried to second-guess British Coal or the former National Coal Board about decisions on individual collieries. That is why I have tried, in this speech, to put forward the view that jobs in coal, as in any other industry, must depend on the industry's success.

The reality is that the market has changed. Industrial change cannot be avoided. It would be totally wrong to destroy jobs by imposing high electricity prices on industry. This country cannot, in a very competitive world, afford to have an economy preserved in the past. Our industries have to be efficient if they are to compete in the future. [Interruption.] One of my hon. Friends has shouted, "The chemical industry."

That is a very good example. Our chemical industry is one of the most successful in the world. If we are to ensure that it remains a world leader and that the jobs depending on it are retained, we cannot shackle it with high electricity prices.

With regard to those who are leaving the industry, the Government have provided opportunities--not only with the £243 million regeneration package or with the support for British Coal Enterprise, but also with the whole regeneration strategy that we have endorsed since 1979. This has been done before. It has been done at Shotton and Corby and in other communities affected by industrial change. Unemployment in Corby is now below the national average--something that not even the doubting Thomases of the Opposition would have forecast in 1979.

From this debate, there is a clear message to the coal communities. First, I strongly believe that coal has a future in a highly competitive energy market. The support that the Conservative Government are providing will secure that future. Privatisation will create a profitable industry able to survive on its own. Secondly, where pits close, new businesses and new jobs will be created to replace those that disappear. There is a future--a future for coal, and a future for coal communities. I urge my right hon. and hon. Friends to throw out the motion and support the amendment. 5.56 pm

Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield) : I have heard many Energy Ministers speak, but I have never heard a more disgraceful speech than the one that has just been delivered by the right hon. Gentleman. Many thousands of people in the mining communities will have expected from the Secretary of State a serious account of the Government's energy policy. I contrast the right hon. Gentleman's speech with that of the Secretary of State for Defence, who, just after Question Time today, announced a defence review. The Secretary of State for Defence tried to measure our resources against our commitments.

Successive Energy Ministers, of whom I am proud to have been one, have been custodians of 300 years' worth of coal reserves--1,000 years, if the coal under the North sea is included--and of other energy sources, notably nuclear power, as well as gas. If the policy that the Secretary of State mentioned were applied to the farming industry, with its huge subsidies and set-aside grants, there would undoubtedly be an outcry from Conservative Members representing-- Mr. Eggar rose--

Column 58

Mr. Benn : I want to make my point. The hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity to comment in his winding-up speech. This ought not to be treated as a student debate. Those who are listening are entitled to hear the arguments so that they may compare--

Mr. Eggar rose--

Mr. Benn : I do not intend to give way at the moment. People listening to the debate ought to be able to compare the arguments. There has been reference to the period of the last Labour Government. I am very proud to have been the Minister who expanded the market by authorising the Drax B coal-fired power station ; who agreed to and made possible the sinking of the Selby coalfield ; who signed the agreement with France and said in the House that its purpose was to export British coal by wire to France--the argument that was put forward in the House when this was done ; and who reached an agreement with the National Union of Mineworkers that, where pits were closed because of exhaustion, as sometimes happens, or where pits were closed because of dangerous working, as is sometimes necessary, or where pits were closed because there was access to the coal reserves of other shafts, the union would be offered a veto.

In truth, the NUM had a powerful argument--that very often there were reserves that the Coal Board did not want to explore. I offered the union an exploration grant of £500,000 for the purpose of establishing whether those reserves existed in every pit. I hope that the Minister will not try to cover up the brutality of his policy by making debating points about the previous Labour Government.

Mr. Eggar : Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Benn : I shall give way, but I am making a serious speech and do not want this to become a mere knockabout.

Mr. Eggar : The right hon. Gentleman said that he was proud to have signed the interconnector agreement with France and that he signed it because he thought that he was exporting coal by wire. Why, therefore, did he agree with the French terms, which meant that the French could export nuclear electricity to this country without giving us the ability to break that agreement legally?

Mr. Benn : The Minister is totally wrong. The interconnector was a physical connector, and the contract with the French was signed subsequently. The Minister's assertion is like saying that if one orders a ship, one must have ordered it to import goods from Japan. Ships are capable of carrying goods both ways. [ Hon. Members-- : "Oh, no."] It is the truth.

The Government should also mention the fact that, when the new Labour Government took office in early 1974, we discovered that the previous Prime Minister had told the Central Electricity Generating Board to import Australian coal. By the time the coal was delivered, it was so expensive that the British generating board sold it at a loss to Electricite de France because British coal was cheaper. Also in 1974, the generating board wanted some 22 nuclear power stations, which had all been set in hand by the previous Government. That number was cut back to two.

So much for the past. It would be a tragedy if anyone from a mining area listening to this debate thought that it

Column 59

was just about what happened 20 years ago. The people listening to this debate want to know why pits are being closed and I submit to the House that it has nothing whatever to do with market forces. Anyone who has been reading articles by Brian Crozier in The Times recently may know something about it. When the Government came to power in 1979, they were determined to break the National Union of Mineworkers and were prepared to sacrifice the British coal mining industry in order to do so. The Government precipitated the strike in 1984. I have forgotten which Minister said that, when there was some industrial action earlier, they were not ready for the strike. Anyone who thinks that Arthur Scargill started the strike had better read what actually happened. Cortonwood had been given a long life ; when the Government decided to close it, the local branch officials told the national officials, "We don't want you here." They wanted to decide it themselves and Arthur Scargill was told by the branch officials at Cortonwood that they had decided to resist that decision and appeal to the NUM for support.

The articles in The Times were not news to any of us. Brian Crozier, that paranoid nut who ran a private security service, managed to persuade the Prime Minister of the day that a miners' leader who wanted to keep the pit open was engaged in trying to bring about the Russian revolution in Britain. I do not know how that man could have been listened to by anyone. Hon. Members should read the book if they do not believe what he said. We know that David Hart was put in by the then Prime Minister to wreck the agreement between MacGregor and Scargill, which might conceivably have brought that strike to a more reasonable conclusion.

The then Prime Minister treated the miners as the enemy within. Like many other hon. Members, I spoke to many miners who had served in the second world war. They bitterly resented being described as "the enemy within" by a Prime Minister who had never even served in the armed forces in the second world war. From the beginning--from the "Ridley plan" through the strike--this has been a policy to destroy the National Union of Mineworkers. That is what it is about. The Government should not try to tell us about their generous redundancy terms, because they bumped them up to get people to leave the industry. How much of the £18 billion support for the industry has been used to buy out men from the industry? How much of it has gone into redundancy arrangements? Some miners are told that if they do not accept redundancy pay, they will be put in low-paid jobs, and the redundancy pay that they receive six months later is then related to their low pay.

When they receive their redundancy pay, they want to use it to pay off their mortgages, but the Government will not let them do so. So much for a Government who believe in home ownership. Miners in my constituency who took up the offer to buy their own houses, believing that the industry was safe, thought that when they were made redundant they would at least have a roof over their heads. But when they went to the DSS, they were told that they could not spend their money. It is not real money but a coupon. It is a lump sum of unemployment pay and they

Column 60

will get nothing from the DSS until they have spent every penny of it. The Government are fraudulent in their presentation of the case. When the pits are closed, what happens? The environment in the areas where the pits have been is stripped and opencast. Local authorities are not allowed to prevent the opencasting of areas because the Government have taken away local authorities' power to determine whether opencasting should take place.

I have the privilege to represent what was a mining area--the last pit in Chesterfield closed 10 days ago--and I know that what the Minister said was wholly untrue. Last October, when the Government were forced back by a great outcry of public opinion, they pretended that they would do something simply to buy the support of enough Conservative Members of Parliament to get the measures through. When what they saw as the hubbub had subsided, they decided to carry on with closing the pits.

It is a disgraceful story because this country is richly endowed with energy sources and needs a national energy policy. It is sensible for Governments to say, as they do in other policy areas, that they will conserve gas. The previous Labour Government said that we would not allow the oil companies in the North sea to flare the gas. My right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the Opposition and I provided for flaring controls to prevent gas being flared until the gas-gathering pipeline was available, so that gas would be available.

We did not even develop all the fields that we discovered. We had discovered a field in the Irish sea but held back its development. We could do so because it was in public ownership. We did not have to exploit everything that we discovered. We cut the nuclear component from the 22 power stations demanded by the CEGB to two. We developed the mining industry, with elaborate arrangements that involved consultation with all users of coal and electricity.

I will not say that this Government have betrayed the mining industry, because one must believe in something before being able to betray it. This is a search-and-destroy mission against the National Union of Mineworkers.

I shall finish with a political point. In 1984-85, the NUM warned people that if it went down, others would follow. Anyone looking back, 10 years later, will see that that is exactly what has happened to the health service and local government. The Government are determined to destroy not only the NUM but the trade union movement, because that is the main obstacle to what they are really about--enriching their friends and impoverishing those who create the nation's wealth. I saw figures the other day showing a 14 per cent. reduction in income among the poorest people and enormous profits made by those who have either acquired privatised assets or plan to do so.

Let us not forget that Mr. Hanson will be waiting to buy the pits that we are told are uneconomical. Such people pour money into the Tory party. Business Age, which is not a left-wing magazine, has produced a figure of £71 million as the amount donated to the Tory party. In return, donors have a chance to buy in those assets. Some Tory Ministers who were in the Cabinet that privatised particular industries sit on the boards of the companies for which they have legislated. This is a corrupt Government and people understand that they are about corruption. Ministers come along and make a lot of funny speeches without a note on the Dispatch Box. They advance a wicked argument, which does not carry any credibility.

Column 61

The Government can close the pits, but they cannot abolish miners. Thousands and thousands of miners and miners' families in this country were proved right. Arthur Scargill was described as a scaremonger, but he was right. He was re-elected. He is more popular than the Prime Minister--everybody knows that. He is more popular because he told the truth ; what he said in 1984-85 was true. The Government, facing awful scandal--the profits made from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the Maxwell pensioners and Polly Peck--are trying to destroy the lives of highly skilled engineers who work underground with high technology and who created the wealth on which the first industrial revolution was built. One day, we will need those people again to rebuild the country on the basis of its energy resources.

6.12 pm

Dr. Keith Hampson (Leeds, North-West) : In one sense, I agree with the right hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn). Clearly, we face a serious state of affairs in our mining communities, and it is not confined to the pit areas. The mining equipment industry produces substantial exports of about, I believe, £400 million a year, so subsidiary industries are dependent on what happens in the coal industry.

We heard enormous passion in the speech of the right hon. Member for Chesterfield, but has he forgotten what has happened in the years since he was the Secretary of State for Energy? Do I have to go back to the White Paper that he produced? Do I have to remind him of the balanced energy sources for which he argued?

At the heart of the Opposition's case is the argument that, supposedly, the market for coal is rigged. The primary reason, it is said, involved the nuclear industry. Yet, when Secretary of State for Energy, the right hon. Gentleman said that one had to have a nuclear ingredient. Twice he said that Windscale had to be enlarged and that "no energy Minister could recommend to the House"--[ Official Report, 15 May 1978 ; Vol. 950, c. 174.]

other than having the nuclear ingredient. He cited the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution, because there were problems involving nuclear power. But we now have problems of air pollution and the burning of carbon fuels. The environmental lobby argues about how clean the nuclear industry is compared with the coal industry. Has the right hon. Gentleman forgotten not only history, but what he has said in the House?

Of course, the Leader of the Opposition was once an oil spokesman. Of course, he defended the oil industry and the jobs in that industry, and he was right to do so. It is a major industry. The Liberal party's spokesman on the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Gordon (Mr. Bruce), rightly defended that industry.

That is why the Select Committee called for a balanced energy strategy, just as the right hon. Member for Chesterfield had done all those years ago. No modern economy can be totally dependent on coal or have a coal- dominated energy strategy.

When Labour Members call for an energy strategy, they deceive the nation. They are calling for a strategy fixed for coal. For the past three years, the energy industry in this country has been fixed for coal. How could one say otherwise when, on privatisation of the industry, the electricity companies were required to buy huge tonnages--70 million and 65 million tonnes of coal?

Next Section

Home Page