House of Commons Hansard Debates for 14 Jul 1993

Mr. Douglas Hogg : My right hon. Friend did so at the Copenhagen meeting of the European Council on 21 and 22 June and, again, in the margins of the Tokyo summit held between 7 and 9 July.

Mr. Alton : In the absence of European troops in Bosnia and of the political will to commit them, can the Minister say what we shall do when the members of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference appeal to the United Nations to commit up to 18,000 troops there? Given our own indifference to the plight of people who have been masscared in Bosnia, to the mutilation of that country, and to its right to self-determination and sovereignty, and even though we have failed to commit troops for the purpose of saving people there, we should say that we will not oppose the placing of Islamic troops to defend the interests of Muslims, who continue to be massacred.

Mr. Hogg : I have heard some pretty silly questions in this place, but that is one of the silliest. All hon. Members, with the possible exception of the hon. Gentleman, know that we now have 2,400 troops in Bosnia. In addition, there are very substantial French and other European formations. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman is talking about.

Sir Michael Marshall : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that, in consultation with our European partners, there is scope to seek to deter aggression in Bosnia if we can take forward the process of bringing to justice those who are guilty of crimes against humanity? In that regard, does my right hon. and learned Friend believe that it will be possible to name names so that we can deter those who have gone in for ethnic cleansing and other horrors?

Mr. Hogg : The Security Council has made it plain that there should be an ad hoc Yugoslav war crimes tribunal. I agree with that. What is even more important, however, is that we get the parties to the fighting to start negotiating.

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Mr. McAvoy : Does the Minister really believe that Serbian expansionism will stop when Bosnia vanishes from the map? It is well known that the Serbians will extend their aggression to other areas in the Balkans once they have finished with Bosnia-Herzegovina. The Secretary of State has outlined the difficulties and dangers involved in supporting the use of United Nations troops in Bosnia. Does the Minister accept, however, that the same doubts and difficulties existed at the time of the Kuwait- Iraq war? The Secretary of State supported intervention then. What is the difference between Iraq and Bosnia? Is it Arab oil?

Mr. Hogg : Two questions are rolled up in that question. As to Bosnia, it is our determination that there shall continue to be a state of Bosnia. We are seeking to carry forward negotiations whereby the three warring factions can live in peace within the existing frontiers of Bosnia. Whether that is a confederal or federal solution is a matter for the parties involved. That we hope and intend to see a state of Bosnia in future is clear and beyond doubt.

The hon. Gentleman's second question was broadly whether the situation in former Yugoslavia is the same as that in the Gulf. The answer is no. There are remarkable differences. To start with, what we are seeing in Bosnia and indeed throughout much of former Yugoslavia is, in essence, a civil war. What we saw in the Gulf was a clear attack on one sovereign state by another. Moreover, in the Gulf war it was easy to define one's political objective, which was the withdrawal of Iraq from Kuwait. In Bosnia, what one is seeking to achieve is political negotiation and then a settlement through discussion.

Mr. Churchill : Is it not a cruel and cynical betrayal of the Bosnian Muslims that the United Nations should send in a United Nations protection force with no mandate to protect and should declare safe havens that it has no intention to make safe? For how much longer will the United Nations and Her Majesty's Government maintain a position whereby we deny the victims of aggression any outside assistance and refuse to let them have access to the means of self-defence when we know that the other side-- the Serbs--started the conflict with more than 10 times as much ammunition and hardware?

Mr. Hogg : We need to be clear about this. The United Nations is neither more nor less than its member states. Therefore, the essential question is whether the member states--in particular, the United Kingdom-- are prepared to put combat troops into Bosnia to wage war. If the answer is no--and that, indeed, is the answer--people must not encourage the Bosnian Muslims to suppose something different.

Kenya (Press Harassment)

10. Sir David Steel : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on Her Majesty's Government's representations concerning harassment of the press in Kenya.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : We have repeatedly stressed at the highest levels of the Kenyan Government the importance of a free press.

Sir David Steel : The Minister knows from my question on Monday that I am particularly concerned about the case of Fotoform publishers, in which we have a particular

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locus because its managing director is a British citizen. Is he aware that since its presses, which I visited in May, were raided and forced to close, three of the company's publications-- Society, Finance and Law Monthly --have been suspended? That is direct harassment of the press. My latest information is that the judgment that should have been delivered yesterday was not forthcoming and that the case is still continuing. Such suppression of the press is outrageous and we have a particular duty to make repeated condemnation of it.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : I am, of course, aware of that case and of the right hon. Gentleman's interest in it. We exchanged words about it on Monday. He will know that we take a strong line about it. I am extremely disappointed that the case was adjourned yesterday. We believe that the legal proceedings should be concluded as soon as possible.

Mr. John Marshall : Will my hon. Friend make it clear to the Kenyan Government and other Governments that economic assistance from this country depends on those Governments adhering to basic principles of human and political rights?

Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Yes. As my hon. Friend is aware, the elections in Kenya were, ultimately, conducted successfully, even though in the run-up to them there was cause for concern. The Government and the International Monetary Fund have made it clear to the Kenyan Government that further balance of payments support depends on their complying with a shadow programme that they have negotiated with the IMF.

Israel (EC Application)

11. Mrs. Jane Kennedy : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what progress is being made with Israel's application for associate member status with the EC.

Mr. Heathcoat-Amory : The 1975 co-operation agreement provides the present basis of the relationship between the EC and Israel. In 1992, the EC and Israel agreed to examine how those arrangements might be updated. The Commission has had exploratory talks with Israel and will soon propose a draft negotiating mandate to the Council.

Mrs. Kennedy : Does the Minister believe that the economic regeneration of that region is the surest way to achieve stability and lasting peace? If so, will he actively promote--not merely support-- Israel's application for associate membership of the EC? Will he further consider the active promotion of Israel's application to join the "Western European and Others" group of the United Nations?

Mr. Heathcoat-Amory : I am cautious about using the term "association agreement" because it might imply that EC membership is in prospect when at present it is not. I agree that it is a matter of mutual interest to develop trade relations and better political dialogue.

Mr. Dykes : Does my hon. Friend agree that Israel's application for associate-only status would be considerably reinforced if the British Government would put pressure on the Arab countries to remove their boycott, which harms Israel's economic performance? If Israel now has the imagination to reach genuine and lasting peace with the Palestinians in the present negotiations, the great

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prize of the near east common market will be available, including maximum support from the European Community.

Mr. Heathcoat-Amory : I confirm to my hon. Friend that we deplore the Arab boycott of Israel.

Mr. Burden : Does the Minister agree that, if it is reasonable for Israel to seek closer relationships with the European Community, it is reasonable for the inter-national and European communities to seek from Israel reasonable standards of conduct of the sort expected of other countries? That includes ending the economic strangulation of the west bank and Gaza strip, respecting the rights of Palestinians living in the occupied territories, and abiding by international resolutions such as ending the illegal occupation of the west bank and Gaza strip and the illegal annexation of east Jerusalem.

Mr. Heathcoat-Amory : My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has repeatedly made it clear that the Israeli defence forces must respect human rights in the occupied territories. We deplore all violence of that nature as well as terrorist activities against Israeli citizens.

Middle East

12. Dr. Goodson-Wickes : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what progress has been made in the peace process in the middle east ; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. Douglas Hogg : The 10th round of bilateral negotiations adjourned in Washington on 1 July. The Israeli-Palestinian negotiations have reached an important moment. Both sides now face the decision whether to engage in detailed negotiations about interim arrangements in the occupied territories. We think that they should.

Dr. Goodson-Wickes : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the present agreeable climate in the peace process would be better promoted by a constructive dialogue with the newly pragmatic Palestine Liberation Organisation rather than allowing Hammas and fundamentalist groups in the region to continue to pose a dangerous threat to the whole of the middle east?

Mr. Hogg : I certainly think that Hammas poses a threat to the middle east in general and to the peace talks in particular. That is why it is extremely important that urgent progress should be made in the peace negotiations now under way.

Mr. Ernie Ross : Does the Minister agree that the middle east talks are threatened by a three-and-a-half month closure of Gaza which, after 26 years of occupation, does not have the finance to sustain itself and in some cases lacks the basic infrastructure for water, sewerage and a financial system? Does he also agree that, while Israel has a right to legitimate security rightly, as an occupying power it also has a duty to look after the interests of the occupied population? If the Israelis will not help the Gazans, will the Government do something through the EC to help them?

Mr. Hogg : I certainly think that if we are to see progress in the talks it is important that the Palestinians and the Israeli people see that positive advantages are to be gained

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from those talks. Therefore, I say to the Government of Israel that they must lift the weight of the occupation-- there are various ways in which to do that--and I say to the Palestinians that they must stop the violence.

Mr. Carrington : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the process of peace negotiations in the middle east depends crucially on the brokering by the United States of a settlement? Will my right hon. and learned Friend put pressure on the United States Government to encourage Israel to bring the future of Jerusalem into the negotiations in a constructive manner?

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Mr. Hogg : I entirely agree that the role of the United States is critical to a successful outcome of the negotiations. We, the United Kingdom Government, will do what we can to support the process, but our agenda is not separate from that of the United States. The negotiators must hurry, as it is always possible that ; if there is no progress the enthusiasm of the United States to remain involved may diminish. I think it is prudent to leave the issue of Jerusalem until last.

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