House of Commons Hansard Debates for 21 Oct 1993

Mrs. Bottomley : I have made it clear that we are not establishing a next steps agency. In characteristic style, the hon. Lady seems to think that no one in any organisation should ever have their job reviewed. That is only what I would expect from her, as she has totally sold out to the health unions and is blinkered from the needs of patients.

I respect, and have a great debt of gratitude towards, many extremely able health service managers, but one has to have the structure and management lines appropriate for the organisation--it is not a job creation scheme which never changes for fear of anyone being put in any short-term difficulty. Of course it is our intention to invest extra money in patient care, whether through nurses or doctors.

Finally, clear priorities and planning guidance are sent out. They are approved by me, as the Secretary of State, and sent out by the national health service. We have made it clear, as the hon. Lady will see when she studies the documents, that we want more explicit targets and better measurements of outcome, rather than merely measurements of inputs. All the Opposition think about is jobs for

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the boys and girls, and the union interest. We think about patient care and output from the service, and that is what we want to hold the health service to account for.

Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) : On a point of order, Madam Speaker. A month ago, as the chair of the London group of Labour Members of Parliament, I wrote to the Secretary of State for Health asking for an urgent meeting of London Members with her, to discuss the health service in London and the 150,000 people on the waiting list. One month later, I received a reply from the Minister of Health referring me to the health authorities in London as the only bodies competent to answer our queries. Is that accountability to this House, or is it fudging the issue?

Madam Speaker : The hon. Gentleman is attempting to ask a question which he had hoped to put directly to the Secretary of State for Health. It is certainly not a point of order.

Sir Anthony Grant (Cambridgeshire, South-West) : On a point of order, Madam Speaker. While I entirely accept your right and duty to select questions from whatever source you think fit--you have not been helped by the long-windedness of the two Front Benches--you will appreciate that no one from the East Anglian region has been called during our discussions of the health service. As you will appreciate, two world-famous hospitals-- Papworth and Addenbrooke's--are in that region. Perhaps, when the subject comes up again, that will be borne in mind.

Madam Speaker : I shall certainly keep that in mind, but I must tell the hon. Gentleman--this is a good opportunity for me to place it on record --that I am always anxious for hon. Members who seek to question a statement to be here at the beginning of it. That is a courtesy to the Minister. Some hon. Members, whose names I have listed, were not in the Chamber at the beginning of the statement. Therefore, when I have a choice to make, I shall obviously select those who were in at the beginning.

BILL PRESENTED

Taxation of Domestic Fuel and Power (Amendment)

Mr. Nigel Spearing, supported by Mr. Ron Leighton and Mr. Tony Banks, presented a Bill to repeal section 42 of the Finance Act 1993 ; and for connected purposes : And the same was read the First time ; and ordered to be read a Second time upon 29 October, and to be printed. [Bill 255.]

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS, &c

Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 101(5) (Standing Committees on Statutory Instruments, &c.).

Value Added Tax

That a further sum, not exceeding £1,807,298,000, be granted to Her Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund to defray the charges that will come in the course of payment during the year ending on 31st March 1994 for expenditure by the Home Office on compensation for criminal injuries, probation, police and superannuation payments for police and fire services. -- [Mr. Patnick.]

Question agreed to.

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SCOTTISH GRAND COMMITTEE

Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 97(1) (Matter relating exclusively to Scotland).

Women's Issues

That the Matter of Women's Issues in Scotland, being a Matter relating exclusively to Scotland, be referred to the Scottish Grand Committee for its consideration.-- [Mr. Patnick.]

Question agreed to.

Royal Assent

Madam Speaker : I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that the Queen has signified her Royal Assent to the following Acts :

Welsh Language Act 1993

National Lottery, etc. Act 1993

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Orders of the Day

European Economic Area Bill [Lords]

Order for Second Reading read

4.56 pm

The Minister for Industry (Mr. Tim Sainsbury) : I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

The Bill implements the European Economic Area agreement, which will create the world's largest single market, consisting of 12 Community member states and six of the states in the European Free Trade Association. Perhaps I should remind the House that those states are Austria, Finland, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Sweden. The seventh EFTA state, Switzerland, chose last December not to participate. For the sake of brevity, I shall use the term EFTA to refer to those states that will be part of the EEA.

May I remind the House at the beginning of this debate that the agreement was considered in a scrutiny debate on the Floor of the House in February 1992. The motion in favour of the agreement was approved without a Division.

The Government have tabled amendments to take account of a protocol signed in March by the participating states, which enables the agreement to enter into force without Switzerland. The Bill as introduced, taken together with the Government amendments, will implement the agreement as amended by the protocol.

We should not underestimate the trade benefits that the agreement will bring. It will create an area of 18 countries throughout which the four freedoms--for the movement of goods, capital, services and people--will apply. Most of the provisions of the Community single market will be extended to apply to the whole of that area. EFTA countries will have to adapt their legislation to make it consistent with the single market rules. Community member states will have to amend their legislation, where required, to cover the whole of the EEA.

The agreement will create a market with equal conditions of competition and the same trading rules, stretching from the Arctic to the Mediterranean. As the House will recall, the agreement was originally due to enter into force on 1 January 1993. Switzerland's decision meant that that date could not be met. It will now enter into force once all EEA and EFTA states have ratified. We expect the last states to do so this autumn, allowing the agreement to become effective by the beginning of 1994.

Liechtenstein will probably come on board some time later, after issues relating to its close ties with Switzerland have been resolved. The protocol allows for that, as does one of the Government amendments to the Bill.

When the agreement enters into force, the principal means by which it will extend the four freedoms is through the inclusion in the agreement of articles based on key articles from the European Economic Community treaty. It will include in its annexes some 1,500 single market measures.

Sir Teddy Taylor (Southend, East) : The Minister referred to the extension of rights and entitlements from the Arctic to the Mediterranean. Does he accept that, as part of the EC, some of the alleged advantages do not extend to Gibraltar.

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Mr. Sainsbury : I know my hon. Friend's concern about Gibraltar, but the arrangements there have been in position since the United Kingdom's accession in 1972. For some matters, such as

Gibraltar-based banks, we hope to make the necessary provisions in due course, but if there are other aspects relating to Gibraltar, perhaps, my hon. Friend would like to enlarge upon those in his own remarks.

As I was saying, the agreement will include in its annexe some 1, 500 single market measures, but in addition the EFTA countries will be subject to competition and state aid rules based on those of the Community. The agreement will also establish increased co-operation between the Community and EFTA in Community programmes in areas such as research and development, information services, education, training and youth, small and medium-sized enterprises and tourism. The EEA is a dynamic agreement, so EFTA will take on new measures related to the four freedoms as they are adopted by the Community. That will ensure that the agreement continues to reflect business reality.

Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South) : The Minister is extolling the virtues of the arrangements and the legislation, so why is it that a country such as Japan seems to have a buoyant economy by and large, without the need for all the countries linking together in a single market? We were told in 1973 that our entry into the Common Market would give us entry into that wonderful market. We are now being told that it is to be made a bigger market, yet it all comes to nothing. We have a high level of unemployment, as do all the EC countries. Could he not make clear the reasons for the distinction between our failure and Japan's success?

Mr. Sainsbury : The hon. Gentleman invites me to depart rather a long way from the measure that we are debating. I hope that he will recognise that one has to look at the economic and geographical circumstances and the historic background of any individual country. The most interesting point relevant to his scepticism is that not only do the EFTA countries wish to join the EEA of their own free choice--they see the benefits it will bring to their economies--but four of those countries have chosen to become full members of the Community, seeking as we do the advantages it brings to our economies and to our people.

To ensue that EFTA states comply with the rules in the agreement, EFTA will create a surveillance body with powers similar to those of the Commission plus a court with a role similar to that of the European Court and the operation of the agreement will be overseen by a council consisting of Ministers and EC Commissioners on a joint committee. The joint committee will be responsible for the day-to-day running of the agreement, resolving disputes and agreeing amendments to annexes to the agreement in order to take on new Community measures.

Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South) : I am grateful to the Minister because I wish to refer to the point that he has just made and it might be better to get a response from him now rather than later. He said that there will be a joint organisation between the EFTA Governments and Ministers and the Commission. It may be one commissioner, it may be more. Is it not something of an anomaly that representatives of elected bodies and Governments are meeting perhaps as an EFTA or EEA

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council--six of them meeting one or perhaps two or three commissioners who are, after all, officials? Will they not be meeting the political Ministers to whom the Commission proposes legislation?

Mr. Sainsbury : I can assure the hon. Gentleman that these arrangements were discussed at great length by the Ministers representing the EFTA countries and the Council of Ministers of the European Community. Of course, there will continue to be very close contact and meetings between all the Ministers of the EEA.

Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Port Glasgow) : I think I am right in saying that the European Court of Justice objected to certain powers being given to the new EEA court. What is the relationsships between the two courts? If a decision were to be taken by the EEA court, could that be appealed to the court in Luxembourg?

Mr. Sainsbury : There were some rather lengthy and complex, and speaking as a non-lawyer, legalistic negotiations on these matters. As a non-lawyer, it might be better if I wrote in response to the point the hon. Gentleman raises to make sure that we that get the legal reply quite correct.

Mr. Bernard Jenkin (Colchester, North) : Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Sainsbury : I want to make progress in due course, but I shall give way to my hon. Friend.

Mr. Jenkin : I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend and I may be able to throw some light on this discussion. Was there not a disagreement within the European Community concerning the European Court of Justice and its jurisdiction, in that it was insisting that it would be the supreme body in the overall organisation of the EC and EFTA? Is it not significant that, having established that superiority over the activities in the EEA states, there is a risk that the measure could be more centralising than we would wish, given that the European Court of Justice has tended to be one of the architects of European centralisation?

Mr. Sainsbury : Again, I would say to hon. Friend that the negotiations on this point were lengthy, complex and dominated by the lawyers, of whom I am not one.

There is provision for that committee to consider the implications of divergent jurisprudence and to take measures to deal with any problems that arise with it. That suggests that the superiority to which my hon. Friend refers was not clear cut and that arrangements were entered into to deal with that complication. Perhaps I could write to hon. Friend as well as to the hon. Member for Greenock and Port Glasgow (Dr. Godman).

Mr. John Biffen (Shropshire, North) : My hon. Friend promises to write, but I think that there might be some virtue in having matters of such moment on the record in Hansard.

Mr. Sainsbury : I take note of what my right hon. Friend says. Perhaps we can put the letter in the Library or arrange for its information to be conveyed.

I do not want to get too far into the complex legal arrangements for the interplay between the two courts, but I would say to my right hon. Friend, as I said to my hon.

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Friend the Member for Colchester, North (Mr. Jenkin), that there are arrangements for the resolution of any problems arising from whire area. That is the purpose of the Bill that we are now considering. It will implement the United Kingdom's obligations under the agreement and allow the United Kingdom to ratify the agreement. he Bill contains three main provisions. Clause 1 makes the agreement a Community treaty in the United Kingdom law, clause 2(1) is a general rule that affords EFTA nationals and companies treatment equivalent to that already given under United Kingdom law to Community nationals and companies. Clause 3(1) is a general rule that implements the United Kingdom's obligations under the agreement where the first two provisions do not apply.

I will describe the provisions briefly in turn. Clause 1 of the Bill amends section 1(2) of the European Communities Act 1972 by adding the agreement to the list of Community treaties in that section, so obligations arising from the agreement will be treated as Community obligations under United Kingdom law and section 2 of the 1972 Act will apply to them.

EEA provisions that are directly applicable--for example, the competition articles of the agreement and EEA measures corresponding to EC regulations- -will take effect in the United Kingdom without the need for further domestic legislation.

Where further domestic legislation is required to implement provisions of the agreement, powers need to be provided for that purpose. An example of that is the provisions in the annex to the agreement corresponding to directives. It is there that the two general rules contained in clauses 2(1) and 3(1) will operate. Clause 2(1) contains the first general rule. The principle behind the rule is straightforward. Where existing legislation covered by the agreement contains reference to the communities, or some connection with the communities, such as member states, those references will be substituted by corresponding references to the European Economic Area--or some connection with the area--or to both the communities and the area. That substitution will apply where the legislation is limited in its operation by reference to the communities. In that way, EFTA nationals and companies will be treated under the legislation in question in the same way as Community nationals and companies.

The second general rule, in clause 3(1), will operate only where the first does not apply. Clause 3(1) modifies provisions in United Kingdom legislation and certain other instruments where equivalent treatment will not be conferred by clause 2(1). It modifies those provisions only in so far as it is necessary to implement the United Kingdom's obligations under the agreement. It is intended to cater for legislation on which clause 2(1) will not bite, but which has to be amended to implement the agreement.

The agreement is the most ambitious and wide-ranging to be entered into by the Community with third countries. It will create the world's largest single market with 370 million consumers, responsible for more than 40 per cent. of the world's trade. It will lead to benefits for both

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consumers and companies throughout the 18 countries. It will provide for closer co-operation between the Community and its closest European neighbours.

I should add that we are not ignoring the importance of our trade relations with Switzerland. If the Swiss decide in future to join the EEA, we shall welcome that decision. In the meantime, the Community and Switzerland are working to develop relations by improving on existing EC/Switzerland free trade agreement.

The United Kingdom is particularly well placed to benefit from the agreement. We have well established trade lines with all EFTA countries, partly because of geography and partly because of our previous membership of EFTA. In 1992, we made £5.7 billion of visible exports to the six EFTA states that will participate in the EEA. That business has been won by a wide range of industries and the agreement will bring further opportunities for exports from Britain through opening up services and public purchasing, shared research and development programmes and the extension of common technical standards and regulations.

There is a substantial potential benefit for the services sector. Financial services will be able to "passport" into EFTA countries. The aviation market will be opened up through the extension of EC aviation measures such as those on competition and passenger capacity. United Kingdom professionals will be able to offer their services across all 18 member states of the EEA. I can assure the House that my Department will play a full part in helping our companies take advantage of these new opportunities.

Earlier this year, we set up the Business in Europe service to help firms succeed in the new Europe, created by both the single market and the EEA. We shall give companies help on the practical aspects of selling in Europe, information on the new trade rules and assistance if they face unfair barriers to trade. We are in addition recruiting four export promoters specifically for the EFTA countries, including Switzerland.

The creation of the EEA is entirely in line with the Government's commitment to develop a Community that is open, market-oriented and outward -looking. It will ensure that trade within the larger part of Europe is based on the principles of open market and open economy that we hope will extend one day throughout the whole of Europe.

Sir Teddy Taylor : My right hon. Friend is kind to give way so much. Will there be a further advantage in contributions from the EFTA states of the EC? It seems, from reading this complex treaty, that on page 215, in protocol 32, provision is made for contributions by the EFTA states to the EC. Will that involve a lot of money, and will we benefit a great deal in consequence?

Mr. Sainsbury : There is a cohesion fund--an expression with which I suspect that my hon. Friend is familiar--which will enable the EEA countries to make a contribution to the poorest parts, or poorer parts, of the Community. Among the beneficiaries will be Northern Ireland.

A further and substantial advantage of the agreement is that it is greatly facilitating the negotiations that are currently under way with four of the EFTA states--Austria, Finland, Norway and Sweden--for them to join the Community as full members. The Government strongly support their applications.

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Although enlargement of the Community is an important goal, the agreement remains significant in its own right. It creates a market that represents almost half of the world's trade. Its benefits will be enjoyed by consumers and businesses alike. It will ensure that trade within western Europe is based on the principles of an open market economy. British exporters want to win the new business that is available to them from the new opportunities that the agreement creates, and want to do so without delay. I therefore commend the Bill to the House.

5.16 pm

Mr. Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough) : I thank the Minister for his concision on a Bill that is important to the House, as we saw yesterday in the procedural motion that we debated and are now taking through all its stages today.

Her Majesty's Opposition welcome the Bill. We welcome the underlying principle, which is to extend the single market from the European Community to the EFTA countries. As the Minister said, through the agreement that we are debating and the subsequent modification of Community law, we are seeing the creation of a single market of 18 countries, with 380 million consumers.

Notwithstanding the high levels of unemployment throughout the European Community--alluded to yesterday by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), whom I am glad to see in his place, beside my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer)--the fact remains that the European economic area will become the largest and richest single marketplace in the world.

The prospect has been opened up that as nation states in central and eastern European countries break away from their communist past, with their centralised economies, they may also join the European economic area, perhaps by the end of the decade.

Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) : We have heard all these stories about this Common Market claptrap for 22 years : if we can make the market bigger, it will be better for Britain. I remember that, when West Germany annexed East Germany, people said that it was going to widen the market and that everybody would be better off as a result. We all know now that the British taxpayer is footing the bill for the annexation of East Germany, and to some tune.

I remember--those golden days in retrospect--when Britain used to build ships. We used to put manufactured goods in them, send them to the four corners of the earth. They used to come back. Some of them had Commonwealth preference. We used to put food in the ships. It was a nice little earner. We used to sell our manufactured goods. We had a balance of trade surplus. We do not now have a shipbuilding industry ; the Government have ruined that. We have a deficit with every Common Market country on trade. The whole thing has been an unmitigated disaster from beginning to end. Now my hon. Friend is saying, "If only we can make it a bit bigger, we can have even more of this claptrap."

Mr. Bell : I am glad that my hon. Friend managed in his intervention to mention Mr. Arthur Daley and his nice little earner. Yesterday, my hon. Friend talked with his usual eloquence of socialism in one country. He will be happy to note from the response given by the Minister to the hon. Member for Southend, East (Sir T. Taylor) that, under the

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cohesion agreement, a fund will be set up to assist poorer regions of the Community. It will consist of 500 million ecu in grants over five years plus an interest rate subsidy of 3 per cent. on 1.5 billion ecu of loans. As the Minister said, that covers Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and most of Spain. As socialists, we are all keen on the transfer of wealth from those who have to those who have not and on a proper distribution of that wealth to the poorer regions.

Mr. Christopher Gill (Ludlow) : Given the Government's new stand that a single currency and economic and monetary union are no longer an immediate prospect, is it realistic to think that such importance will be placed on the cohesion funds in future? As I understand it, the purpose of the cohesion funds was to encourage the convergence that made a single currency possible.

Mr. Bell : The hon. Gentleman, who followed the Maastricht debates with great interest and enthusiasm, has touched on a point of great embarrassment to the Government. The Heads of Government will shortly meet again. The Prime Minister and the Government say one thing in the House, but they will have to say something else to the Heads of Government, who propose to continue along the route to a single currency, because they tell the House that we do not. When that debate takes place, it will be interesting to see where we are going.

To return to my earlier train of thought, as the Minister said, we are debating the most ambitious and wide-ranging agreement to be entered into by the Community in relation to third countries. Sir Teddy Taylor rose --

Mr. Bell : I just want to make one point to my hon. Friends the Members for Bolsover and for Bradford, South, who are following the debate with interest, as are my hon. Friends the Members for Greenock and Port Glasgow (Dr. Godman) and for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing). We shall hear opposition to the Bill on the Floor of the House, but one should consider the difficulties of the Uruguay round of the general agreement on tariffs and trade, the difficulties of the new American free trade area between the United States, Canada and Mexico, and the long haul of Maastricht not only in Britain but throughout the EC. Here we have European neighbours coming together in an area where there is to be free movement of goods, capital, services and people, under an agreement which includes consumer protection, environmental protection--which is important to the Labour party, the Government and those who consider such issues with care--statistics and company law ; an agreement which will lead to the enlargement of the European Community.

Mr. Cryer : My hon. Friend sought to make the case that there was some sort of redistribution of wealth in this arrangement. Would he care to comment on the idea that the common agricultural policy, sustained by Common Market expenditure, on which 70 per cent. of EC funds are spent, destroys the agriculture of the developing nations, results in large quantities of food being dumped on world markets and is harmful to the very poorest of the poor? Year after year, we are told by proponents of the Common Market that that will be changed, but it gets worse. More

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money is being spent and there are more food surpluses and mountains. Yet now EFTA wants to help to prop up that discredited and disgraceful regime.

Mr. Bell : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. The common agricultural policy is not part of the agreement and it does not extend to the new economic area. When the matter was raised in the other place, Lord Peston, on behalf of the Opposition, said of those in the EFTA countries, "Lucky them." My hon. Friend's point goes to the heart of the GATT round at this moment and the discussions and debates there.

In the Community that we are seeking to create and enlarge, we want basic freedoms to be enlarged in relation to political identity and harmonisation, with common institutions that will bind us together. I confirm what the Minister said earlier, that the Opposition look on the European economic area as a stage on the way to enable countries in the EFTA area to make their entry into the EC.

Dr. Godman : Part III of the treaty, which relates to the free movement of persons and so on, is of more than passing interest to numerous constituents of mine who work in the offshore oil and gas industries. Is my hon. Friend aware that very few United Kingdom registered vessels operate in the Norwegian sector, whereas in the United Kingdom sector the picture is entirely different? Is my hon. Friend confident that there will be a more even distribution of work in the two oil and gas sectors following the establishment of the treaty?

Mr. Bell : The provisions on the free movement of persons will create a right for Community and EFTA nationals to work anywhere in that area. That is a coherent part of the agreement on the European economic area with the final Act and declarations. Community and EFTA nationals will be able to operate as self-employed persons throughout the area and to set up and manage undertakings under the same conditions as local nationals. Therefore, my hon. Friend's point is covered by the agreement. It is agreed in the text and words, and we hope that it will be shown in deeds.

Sir Teddy Taylor : I do not want to be too hard on the Minister in view of his dramatic announcement a few moments ago that Northern Ireland will now be eligible for grants from the cohesion fund. Will not that be great news for the port of Larne, which was told before that Northern Ireland was not eligible?

Mr. Bell : I hope that it is good news for the people of Northern Ireland. That was clearly stated by Baroness Denton in the other place when she took the Bill through the House last November. We note that the European economic area agreement does not extend to VAT or to other areas of taxation. That was touched on yesterday in the procedural debate. The EFTA countries will not be obliged to apply VAT in their countries, but as and when they join the Community as full members they will do so. The same applies to customs union. There are no plans for the European economic area to become a customs union. EFTA is not a customs union. The seven EFTA states have different external tariffs. However, on becoming full members of the Community, EFTA states will have to join the union. Community

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fishermen will have increased access to Norwegian and Icelandic grounds and reduced tariffs for trade in fish between Community and EFTA countries.

Dr. Godman : Will Spanish fishing vessels have the same rights as those few United Kingdom vessels that now fish in Norwegian waters, despite the fact that the former have no history of fishing in those waters yet the latter have fished in northern Norwegian waters for many generations?

Mr. Bell : I seem to be taking over the Minister's role in interpreting the agreement and various documents, such as those on the European economic area and business in Europe. I am sure that the Minister, with his vast staff, can answer those questions better than I can. However, the European economic area is what it says it is, so I think that I can confirm what my hon. Friend says.

Again, I am not the Minister. I suppose that the only good thing is that while I am on the Floor of the House, I cannot be sued for slander, defamation of character or negligence if I get anything wrong. However, the point was made.

Dr. Godman : It was a good point.

Mr. Bell : It was, and an important one for fishermen.

Britain accounts for a large part of protected salmon, herring and mackerel interests, but the Bill does not amount to an extension of the Community's common fisheries policy to EFTA. During yesterday's short debate on a procedural motion, a plea was made for a two-day debate, and my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover said that the Opposition had asked for two days. That was the wish of the shadow trade and industry team, but the decision to have a one-day debate was made through the usual channels. My hon. Friend the Member for Newham, South said that the usual channels went back to 1992 ; but the decision had nothing to do with the shadow trade and industry team.

One irony of yesterday's debate occurred when the hon. Member for Southend, East looked across at my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover and asked whether he had heard a Conservative Minister speaking at the Tory party conference. Some of us have a vivid imagination and can visualise my hon. Friend attending the Tory party conference as a delegate and speaking at a fringe meeting about socialism in one country and in our time. That would be a great wonder to behold.

In fact, the Tory party conference was attended by the Swedish Prime Minister, who addressed a fringe meeting on the merits of the agreement that is before the House. I hope that the Swedish Prime Minister said-- although this was not reported in the press--that Sweden supported the social chapter of the Maastricht treaty and that if Sweden ever signed up to it, it would also sign up to the social chapter.

At another Tory party conference fringe meeting, the Secretary of State for Social Security unveiled himself like Superman and declared that there would be two sets of measures to clamp down on benefits paid to foreigners. The first was that foreigners allowed into the United Kingdom on condition that they would not claim benefits would be prevented from doing so. That was at best an illogical statement. How can someone who has entered the country promising that he will not claim benefits

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subsequently be prevented from doing so? Nevertheless, the Secretary of State received a standing ovation for making such a statement.

The right hon. Gentleman also proposed preventing benefit tourism by introducing a requirement that one must live in the United Kingdom before being allowed to claim. He said that many foreign claimants are allowed into the United Kingdom on the express condition that they would be no burden on the public purse. I hope that those remarks were not made at the fringe meeting attended by the Swedish Prime Minister, because he would have been saddened to hear that he was considered a foreigner and that his subjects should not be allowed to become benefit tourists.

Let our imaginations run wild--

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