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were reopened as the market suddenly expanded into electricity generation. Now those markets have changed again.

This evening we are debating our reaffirmation of what we said in the White Paper in which we made it clear that electricity generation must look for the best fuel in the market. Coal must take its place in the highly competitive world of energy.

This debate has fallen into five sections--first, the talk about markets ; secondly, the question of closures and the policy of British Coal ; thirdly, regeneration and what will happen to mining communities when their coal mines close ; then, a lengthy debate on health and safety ; and finally the feeling of Conservative Members, clearly expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Spen (Mrs. Peacock), that the future of the coal industry must lie in privatisation. It is important to ensure that we get through to that privatisation with the most competitive possible coal industry. First, then, I want to discuss markets. As we said in the White Paper, it is important that coal takes its place in the market. I must tell the hon. Member for Barnsley, East (Mr. Patchett) that what I believe was in the minds of the miners to whom he referred was not the attraction of money but the facts of the market as it is today--

Mr. Patchett : Rubbish.

Mr. Hunt : I believe that those who work in the industry can see the meaning of the ever-growing stock piles of unused coal. Those stock piles grow by the day.

At the end of the last financial year, 1992-93, stocks stood at more than 47 million tonnes. Already this year an- other three million have been added to stock. So in spite of the exploration of further markets, British Coal estimates that by the end of this financial year there will be more than 50 million tonnes in stock. The next financial year will thus start with more than a year's supply of coal already in stock.

No industry can possibly operate with stocks as high as these. Doing so not only places an intolerable burden on the taxpayer and the electricity consumer, who must pay the costs of producing and storing unsold coal ; it also puts the future of the industry at great risk.

As we pointed out in the White Paper, maintaining stocks would matter less if the market for coal was expanding. Sad to say, it has been in decline for decades. Before the first world war our mines produced about 300 million tonnes of coal a year. By the time of nationalisation, production had fallen to 200 million. The figure is now below 100 million tonnes.

For the next year, British Coal's contract with the generators--the industry's main customer--will fall to 40 million and then to 30 million tonnes. Contrary to the figures claimed by some Members this evening, that coal will be sold at well above the world market price. That price will have to be supported by electricity consumers. We have the advantage in this country of being rich in energy, not only in coal but in gas and oil.

Never let us forget the fact that we pioneered civil nuclear energy in this country. Several of my hon. Friends--in particular my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr. Burns)--made an important point during the debate. If we were to follow the advice contained in a pamphlet written by the hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook) in the early 1980s, or indeed if we were to follow the

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implication of the speech of the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Mr. Dobson), and shut down the nuclear industry, it would cost approximately 100,000 jobs.

The hon. Member for Delyn (Mr. Hanson) spoke proudly about the colliery in his constituency and I share that pride with him. However, he owes it to the House to point out that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales was in that area earlier today, and also that a substantial number of new jobs will be generated by the Point of Ayr gas development by Hamilton and at the Connah's Quay power station.

I hope that when hon. Members speak in the House about energy and coal they will recognise a fact that has been pointed out by several speakers in the debate--that one constantly must weigh the balance of the effects on jobs in all the energy industries and not in just one.

Mr. Simon Hughes : Does not the Secretary of State realise that he is making a case that the coal industry has made in the past and that many hon. Members have made today, which is that one cannot make decisions about the coal industry nor about its employment prospects in isolation? The industry must be looked at in the context of an energy strategy. The employment implications require that, if one is being just, equal opportunity is given to coal, to gas, to oil and to renewables. Above all, is not it important that hon. Members debate all the industries and the employment implications of all the industries together, otherwise they will never be treated fairly?

Mr. Hunt : The Liberal Democrats have omitted to table an amendment to tonight's Opposition motion. The last time that the Liberal Democrats tabled an amendment, the party spokesman signed two mutually exclusive amendments. The official Liberal Democrat amendment omitted the word "coal" except in reference to the White Paper--

Mr. Joseph Ashton (Bassetlaw) : Get on with it.

Mr. Hunt : I am answering the hon. Member for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes).

The Liberal Democrat amendment stated that there should be fair opportunities for all energy sources, but the only one that they highlighted was renewables. I know that the Liberal Democrat party believes that the future of energy lies in windmills, but we need a sense of responsibility when dealing with energy. If the Liberal Democrat party wants to be taken seriously in important debates such as this, it owes it to the House to put its views on the Order Paper in a proper amendment that hon. Members can judge on its merits.

Dr. Keith Hampson (Leeds, North-West) : Is my right hon. Friend aware that, not only has the Liberal Democrat party always talked about the anomaly of there not being VAT on fuel bills, but in its most recent document calling for taxation on polluters it has specifically endorsed EC proposals--particularly French proposals--for a carbon tax? Is my right hon. Friend further aware that the Select Committee on Trade and Industry report states that a carbon tax would be most damaging for the British coal industry, and that the Government ought to oppose it?

Mr. Hunt : I agree with my hon. Friend. My hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley (Mr. Oppenheim) and

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others calculated that the effect of that proposal would be to add 58 per cent. to the price of coal. I have not heard that figure challenged during the debate, but I hope that at some stage the Liberal Democrat party will put the facts and statistics in an open way.

Everyone in the House knows that closures are a matter for British Coal. Everyone also knows that under the modified colliery review procedure British Coal will ask the unions and employees for their views when they look into the realities of the market for coal. The corporation has decided to resume consultations with the unions through the modified colliery review procedure. I welcome that. The hon. Member for Hemsworth (Mr. Enright) asked me whether it would be a meaningful consultation. It has to be : I give him that assurance. The resumption of that procedure is a welcome return to the normal consultative arrangements within the industry.

As the House will know, the current redundancy terms for miners were due to expire on 31 December. Several hon. Members have asked about those terms. Of course, the redundancy terms are extremely generous. Payments average £24,000 and may be as high as £37,000. Few of the taxpayers who finance them in either the public or the private sector enjoy such generous terms. However, I believe that I speak for everyone in the House in saying that we do not begrudge those terms. People respect those who have risked their life to work and to win coal. That is why, as my hon. Friends the Members for Davyhulme (Mr. Churchill) and for Staffordshire, South (Mr. Cormack) pointed out, coal and coal miners have such a strong impact on the emotions of the House and will continue to do so for years ahead.

I hope that the House will welcome the announcement by my hon. Friend the Minister for Energy of the extension of the funding for those redundancy terms until 30 April next year. My hon. Friend went further in answer to several questions. He made it clear that if consultations are still in progress at that time, the funding will be extended beyond April, if necessary. I hope that that announcement removes any pressure on individual miners to accept redundancy now in the fear that the terms in the early part of next year will be less favourable.

Several hon. Members raised the need to ensure that we provide proper help to those in pit communities affected by closure. I remind the House that the Government have already promised and provided £200 million to regenerate pit communities affected by closure. Some £75 million is available to English Estates to build factory units in the affected areas. Three new enterprise zones are in the process of being established. Assisted area status has been granted to six new coal-mining areas. Through my Department I have arranged for £75 million to be made available through the training and enterprise councils. In all, that amounts to some very substantial assistance. I attended a meeting with Lord Walker in my Department in the past few days with many people, including local authority and training and enterprise council representatives, at which we worked out the best possible strategy to feed new jobs into coal-mining areas. We shall continue with that policy.

I am not sure whether the House apreciated exactly what we said in the debate about health and safety. The Governmnent are determined that privatisation will bring no compromise whatever in the high standards of safety that have always been present in the industry. To that end, we asked the Health and Safety Commission to produce a

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detailed and comprehensive piece of work on all aspects of the post-privatisation safety regime. I believe that that meets the needs of all who have a genuine concern and interest in ensuring that all the relevant safety issues are addressed in the run-up to privatisation. I commend the commission on the thorough way in which it has gone about its task. I am happy to give an assurance on behalf of the Government but, before I do, I will give way to the hon. Member for Wentworth (Mr. Hardy).

Mr. Hardy : Will the Minister answer the question that I put yesterday and last week--to which I have had no reply--and assure the House and the country that no foreign producer of coal which has a grossly unsatisfactory safety record in the mines of its country of origin will be allowed to purchase collieries in this country?

Mr. Hunt : I am glad that the hon. Gentleman raised that question. It is dealt with in the commission's advice, which is available in the Vote Office andwill ensure that it is implemented.

Mr. Churchill : No Conservative Member doubts the Government's commitment to the maintenance of safety in the mines. I take it that there is reasonably close consultation between the Government and the coal board. Can my right hon. Friend tell the House how many of the 50 pits that were in business a year ago he expects still to be producing coal at the end of this financial year?

Mr. Hunt : My hon. Friend knows that I cannot give a precise figure. As was pointed out earlier in the debate, the principal recommendation in the Select Committee report was that the Government should make available a subsidy-- [Interruption.] Yes--that the Government should make available a subsidy for additional markets to be secured. We have already announced the granting of the first subsidy, and that money is available provided additional markets can be found. It is for British Coal to make decisions about individual pits.

Will my hon. Friend please bear in mind, when he questions the £20 billion investment announced earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire, South, that £8 billion has been spent on capital improvements and schemes for British Coal? Asfordby is not winning coal at the moment, but it has already had £250 million spent on it, with a further £70 milllion still to be spent--and that mine has not yet opened. That is a demonstration that these are not just subsidies but an investment in the future, for which the Government are responsible. I have not even mentioned the £1,500 million that has been invested in Selby. Selby is now producing coal at more than 12 tonnes per man shift, which is a tremendous record.

Mr. Caborn : Will the Minister give way?

Mr. Hunt : No ; I only have a few minutes left.

The future of this great industry must lie in privatisation, as I, with several of my right hon. and hon. Friends, have already said. I strongly believe that the sooner the coal industry goes into the private sector, the more secure will be the future of the coal miners. That is felt not only by the Government but by some members of the Opposition.

Time and time again we have asked what the Labour party would do if it ever returned to government. Would it renationalise the coal industry once it had moved into the

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private sector? [ Hon. Members :-- "Yes."] The answer from below the Gangway on the Opposition Benches is, "Yes, we will renationalise the coal industry." During the debate we heard no answer from the Opposition Front Bench Members as to what they would do. They remained silent.

Mr. Robin Cook : I am happy to say that whatever plan there may be to rescue what is left of the coal industry would involve a degree of public ownership. How many pits will be left when the election comes, and how many will the Government close?

Mr. Hunt : The hon. Gentleman ought to consult the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) because she said on the radio today, in answer to a question, that it would not be possible to renationalise. Perhaps he ought to get his policy sorted out.

I urge the House to throw out the Opposition amendment and to accept the Government's motion.

Mr. Don Dixon (Jarrow) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.

Question , That the Question be now put, put and agreed to . Question put accordingly , That the original words stand part of the Question :--

The House divided : Ayes 283, Noes 317.

Division No. 372] [10 pm

AYES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Adams, Mrs Irene

Ainger, Nick

Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)

Alexander, Richard

Allen, Graham

Alton, David

Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)

Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale)

Armstrong, Hilary

Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy

Ashton, Joe

Banks, Tony (Newham NW)

Barnes, Harry

Barron, Kevin

Battle, John

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret

Beith, Rt Hon A. J.

Bell, Stuart

Benn, Rt Hon Tony

Bennett, Andrew F.

Benton, Joe

Bermingham, Gerald

Berry, Dr. Roger

Betts, Clive

Blair, Tony

Blunkett, David

Boateng, Paul

Boyce, Jimmy

Boyes, Roland

Bradley, Keith

Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E)

Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)

Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)

Burden, Richard

Byers, Stephen

Caborn, Richard

Callaghan, Jim

Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)

Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)

Campbell-Savours, D. N.

Canavan, Dennis

Cann, Jamie

Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry)

Cash, William

Chisholm, Malcolm

Churchill, Mr

Clapham, Michael

Clark, Dr David (South Shields)

Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)

Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)

Clelland, David

Clwyd, Mrs Ann

Coffey, Ann

Cohen, Harry

Connarty, Michael

Cook, Frank (Stockton N)

Cook, Robin (Livingston)

Corbett, Robin

Corbyn, Jeremy

Corston, Ms Jean

Cousins, Jim

Cryer, Bob

Cummings, John

Cunliffe, Lawrence

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John

Darling, Alistair

Davidson, Ian

Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)

Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)

Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)

Denham, John

Dewar, Donald

Dixon, Don

Dobson, Frank

Donohoe, Brian H.

Dowd, Jim

Dunnachie, Jimmy

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eastham, Ken

Enright, Derek

Etherington, Bill

Evans, John (St Helens N)

Ewing, Mrs Margaret

Fatchett, Derek

Faulds, Andrew

Field, Frank (Birkenhead)

Fisher, Mark

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