---

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order. We are not talking about where the Committee should meet ; I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is well aware of what the motion says.

Mr. Soley : You are absolutely right, Mr. Deputy Speaker. My point is that Unionist Members will want the Committee to meet in Northern Ireland ; they will not want it to meet in Dublin.

As Select Committee members, we must ensure that the Committee examines the problems of Northern Ireland in a bipartisan way. That is why the membership is important : it is useful for the Committee to have non- Unionist members from both sides of the House, because it is impossible to consider such matters as transport, agriculture, industrial investment, tourism and many other matters in Northern Ireland without also examining the link with southern Ireland--for instance, electricity prices and the price of the national grid for the whole of Ireland.

---

Column 876

Those issues would not be addressed in that way by Unionist Members. In a perverse way, the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale was right to ensure that hon. Members from both sides of the House were represented on the Committee. He will not be surprised to hear me say that where he has gone badly wrong is that he has too few Labour Members. In an intervention, he made it perfectly clear why he wanted only two Labour Members on the Committee. He thought that, if there were to be a Labour Government, the Tories would have only two members. He may be right.

However, I hope that we would not have set up the Select Committee in this way, because Northern Ireland needs something better than a Select Committee. It needs proper legislation which addresses the needs of the Unionists and the republicans in Northern Ireland, and the relationship between the north of Ireland and the south. Until we do that, Northern Ireland will always be under-represented. 8.30 pm

Mr. Harry Barnes (Derbyshire, North-East) : This is one of the better attended meetings on Northern Ireland. I hope that, by getting more involved in the affairs of Northern Ireland, the members of the Select Committee will join those of us who are concerned about Northern Ireland affairs when, late at night, we discuss appropriation measures, which are the equivalent of the Budget in Northern Ireland.

There is a great deal in which people can become involved. If the POLIS record--the parliamentary on-line information service--is examined, it will be discovered that the Conservative Members who have been placed on the Committee, with the exception of the chairman of their Back-Bench committee, have not, until now, been much involved in Northern Ireland matters in the House. That does not mean that they should not be on the Committee, as it will provide an opportunity for them to become interested in these matters. It can do nothing but benefit Northern Ireland if we are all be interested in its affairs and concerned about its well-being. It being one and a half hours after the motion was entered upon, Mr. Deputy Speaker-- put the Questions which he was directed to put at that hour, pursuant to Order this day.

Amendment proposed to the Question : (a), leave out Mr. James Cran' and insert Mr. Thomas McAvoy'.-- [Mr. McNamara.]

Question put, That the amendment be made :

The House divided : Ayes 239, Noes 312.

Division No. 184] [8.31 pm

AYES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Adams, Mrs Irene

Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)

Allen, Graham

Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)

Armstrong, Hilary

Ashton, Joe

Banks, Tony (Newham NW)

Barnes, Harry

Barron, Kevin

Battle, John

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret

Beith, Rt Hon A. J.

Bell, Stuart

Benn, Rt Hon Tony

Bennett, Andrew F.

Benton, Joe

Bermingham, Gerald

Berry, Dr. Roger

Betts, Clive

Blunkett, David

Boateng, Paul

Bray, Dr Jeremy

Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E)

Brown, N. (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)

Burden, Richard

Byers, Stephen

---

Column 877

Caborn, Richard

Callaghan, Jim

Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)

Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)

Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)

Campbell-Savours, D. N.

Canavan, Dennis

Cann, Jamie

Carlile, Alexander (Montgomry)

Chisholm, Malcolm

Clapham, Michael

Clark, Dr David (South Shields)

Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)

Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)

Clelland, David

Clwyd, Mrs Ann

Cohen, Harry

Connarty, Michael

Cook, Frank (Stockton N)

Cook, Robin (Livingston)

Corbett, Robin

Corbyn, Jeremy

Corston, Ms Jean

Cousins, Jim

Cox, Tom

Cryer, Bob

Cunliffe, Lawrence

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John

Dalyell, Tam

Darling, Alistair

Davidson, Ian

Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)

Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)

Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)

Denham, John

Dewar, Donald

Dixon, Don

Dobson, Frank

Donohoe, Brian H.

Dowd, Jim

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eastham, Ken

Enright, Derek

Etherington, Bill

Evans, John (St Helens N)

Faulds, Andrew

Field, Frank (Birkenhead)

Fisher, Mark

Flynn, Paul

Foster, Rt Hon Derek

Foulkes, George

Fraser, John

Fyfe, Maria

Gapes, Mike

Garrett, John

George, Bruce

Gerrard, Neil

Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John

Godman, Dr Norman A.

Godsiff, Roger

Golding, Mrs Llin

Gordon, Mildred

Grant, Bernie (Tottenham)

Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)

Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)

Grocott, Bruce

Gunnell, John

Hall, Mike

Hanson, David

Hardy, Peter

Harman, Ms Harriet

Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy

Heppell, John

Hill, Keith (Streatham)

Hinchliffe, David

Hoey, Kate

Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld)

Home Robertson, John

Hood, Jimmy

Hoon, Geoffrey

Howarth, George (Knowsley N)

Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)

Hoyle, Doug

Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)

Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N)

Hughes, Roy (Newport E)

Hume, John

Hutton, John

Illsley, Eric

Ingram, Adam

Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)

Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H)

Jamieson, David

Janner, Greville

Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)

Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)

Jowell, Tessa

Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald

Keen, Alan

Kennedy, Jane (Lpool Brdgn)

Khabra, Piara S.

Kilfoyle, Peter

Kirkwood, Archy

Lestor, Joan (Eccles)

Lewis, Terry

Litherland, Robert

Livingstone, Ken

Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)

Llwyd, Elfyn

Loyden, Eddie

McAllion, John

McAvoy, Thomas

McCartney, Ian

Macdonald, Calum

McFall, John

McGrady, Eddie

McKelvey, William

Mackinlay, Andrew

McLeish, Henry

McMaster, Gordon

McNamara, Kevin

McWilliam, John

Madden, Max

Maddock, Mrs Diana

Mahon, Alice

Mallon, Seamus

Marek, Dr John

Marshall, David (Shettleston)

Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S)

Martin, Michael J. (Springburn)

Martlew, Eric

Maxton, John

Meacher, Michael

Michael, Alun

Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley)

Milburn, Alan

Miller, Andrew

Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)

Morley, Elliot

Morris, Rt Hon A. (Wy'nshawe)

Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)

Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon)

Mowlam, Marjorie

Mudie, George

Mullin, Chris

Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon

O'Brien, Michael (N W'kshire)

O'Brien, William (Normanton)

O'Hara, Edward

Olner, William

O'Neill, Martin

Orme, Rt Hon Stanley

Pickthall, Colin

Pike, Peter L.

Powell, Ray (Ogmore)

Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lew'm E)

Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)

Prescott, John

Primarolo, Dawn

---