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Burden, Richard

Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)

Canavan, Dennis

Clapham, Michael

Clark, Dr David (South Shields)

Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)

Corbyn, Jeremy

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Cox, Tom

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)

Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)

Denham, John

Dewar, Donald

Dixon, Don

Dobson, Frank

Dykes, Hugh

Eagle, Ms Angela

Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter

Fatchett, Derek

Field, Frank (Birkenhead)

Gale, Roger

Gapes, Mike

Gerrard, Neil

Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John

Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)

Henderson, Doug

Hill, Keith (Streatham)

Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A)

Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)

Illsley, Eric

Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)

Janner, Greville

Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mon)

Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)

Jowell, Tessa

Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald

Keen, Alan

Key, Robert

Khabra, Piara S

Lestor, Joan (Eccles)

Lewis, Terry

Livingstone, Ken

Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)

McCrea, The Reverend William

Macdonald, Calum

Mackinlay, Andrew

MacShane, Denis

Madden, Max

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Maitland, Lady Olga

Michael, Alun

Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe)

Mullin, Chris

O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire)

O'Hara, Edward

O'Neill, Martin

Pearson, Ian

Pike, Peter L

Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E)

Rathbone, Tim

Rendel, David

Roche, Mrs Barbara

Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)

Ruddock, Joan

Sedgemore, Brian

Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)

Shore, Rt Hon Peter

Short, Clare

Sims, Roger

Skinner, Dennis

Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)

Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury)

Soley, Clive

Spearing, Nigel

Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John

Steen, Anthony

Stephen, Michael

Straw, Jack

Sutcliffe, Gerry

Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th)

Trimble, David

Vaz, Keith

Wallace, James

Wigley, Dafydd

Wilkinson, John

Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W)

Tellers for the Ayes: Mr. Andrew F. Bennett and Mr. Harry Barnes.

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Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)

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Tellers for the Noes: Sir George Gardiner and Mr. Vivian Bendall.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker: It appearing that fewer than 100 Members voted in the majority in support of the motion, the Question is not decided in the affirmative.

Debate resumed .

2.20 pm

Mr. Couchman: Before we were rudely interrupted, I was saying that it would become impossible to determine which cigarettes were being imported legally and which were being smuggled in to be sold on the bootleg market. I was mentioning the fact that Customs and Excise has recently revealed that a revenue shortfall of approximately £100 million between 1992-93 and 1993-94 has become evident. The Treasury must be worried that it will hit a point of diminishing returns on its substantial revenue from tobacco. That is extremely worrying. Although the decline in revenue may suggest to some people that the smoking habit is declining, it is much more the case that a substantial proportion of cigarettes is being imported, legally or illegally.

Mr. John Carlisle: Part of the sadness of this morning's debate is that no one has said what a substantial

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contribution taxpayers make to the Revenue, albeit that they are using a product that may be harmful to their health. We have not yet heard--we may in the limited time now available--about the proportionately small amount that has to be spent on treating the smoking- related diseases of those who fall foul of the habit. Perhaps my hon. Friend can enlarge on that point.

Mr. Couchman: My hon. Friend is right. While he was taking a well- earned break, we heard that the ratio of revenue to the Treasury against revenue from the Treasury to treat smoking-related diseases is about 9:1.

Mr. Key: My vow of silence is over now that we have had the vote. I taught economics for 16 years and I am familiar with the maxim that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. I have been unable to find any evidence about the balance between tax revenue and expenditure on the health service. I am interested to hear my hon. Friend's figures. He has defied the economists of the past decade.

Mr. Couchman: I apologise to my hon. Friend because I may be falling into the trap of taking an hon. Friend's figures as correct. The revenue to the Treasury is undeniable. The figures are available in volume XII of the 1993-94 appropriation accounts at paragraphs 24 to 30. My hon. Friend may care to look them up. They were the subject of a recent interrogation of the head of Customs and Excise by the Public Accounts Committee.

My hon. Friend the Member for Newark spoke about United Kingdom manufacturing; he has a particular constituency interest in that. I made the point that manufacturers might decide to take their production to another member state. That is a sinister possibility. To the extent that the consumers' choice of brand or product might be affected by the Bill, so imports would be advantaged and the United Kingdom industry would be damaged. All that would happen for no good reason according to those of us who want tobacco products to become a fast-declining purchase, as it is already.

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