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There is, however, a practical solution for any part of the UK that seeks and is given an elected assembly with legislative and tax-raising powers. It is to raise that region's electoral quota by an appropriate percentage over the standard electoral quota for the UK as a whole. By way of guidance, my Bill proposes that, if the powers of such a devolved Parliament were to cover the whole range of domestic affairs, its electoral quota would be doubled, and pro rata for any lesser devolution of powers. Its duly elected Westminster Members of Parliament would then be fewer in number, but they would be free to vote on all issues and to hold all offices. We should also reduce still further the overall number of Members at Westminster, which would be a step for the better. Of course, we should have to brace ourselves for the loss of some respected colleagues who would wish, no doubt, to make their futures in Scotland.Some people, however, would argue that the Bill would be unattractive to those who seek devolution. I respond by saying simply that the downside is not of my making. It is inherent in the concept of devolution. There is not a sustainable halfway house between a unitary UK and full independence. People who do not like the destination should not start down the slippery slope.
4.22 pm
Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Port Glasgow): I wish to oppose the Bill. There is no doubt that it is inherently anti-Scottish. As a Scots Member of this Parliament, I represent a Scottish constituency in the Parliament of a multi-national state. With the creation of a legislature in Northern Ireland, that multi-national state will be restructured--I would have thought that that was the inevitable result of the creation of a legislature in one part of the United Kingdom. In that sense alone, the Bill of the hon. Member for Elmet (Mr. Batiste) is precipitous. Change will have to take place in a careful way, based on a rigorous analysis of what is likely to happen as a result of the restructuring that follows that brave document--the framework document.
What the hon. Gentleman says about Scottish constituencies does not stand up to examination. In a multi-national state's Parliament, there must be, as it were, a conglomeration of unevenness, and constituencies where there are more electors than in others. For a whole raft of reasons, which I do not have time to mention now--I am sure that I would earn your displeasure, Madam Speaker, if I attempted to mention them--I object to this ill-advised and unpleasant measure.
Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 19 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business): --
The House divided: Ayes 53, Noes 162.
Division No. 88] [4.24 pm
AYES
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Alexander, RichardBanks, Robert (Harrogate)
Batiste, Spencer
Booth, Hartley
Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes
Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)
Butcher, John
Butterfill, John
Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln)
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Carrington, MatthewCarttiss, Michael
Congdon, David
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)
Dover, Den
Duncan, Alan
Elletson, Harold
Fabricant, Michael
Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)
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Fry, Sir PeterGorst, Sir John
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Hannam, Sir John
Harris, David
Hawkins, Nick
Hill, James (Southampton Test)
Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Howell, Sir Ralph (N Norfolk)
Hunter, Andrew
Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey
Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine
Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n)
Lamont, Rt Hon Norman
Lord, Michael
Maitland, Lady Olga
Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants)
Neubert, Sir Michael
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Nicholson, David (Taunton)Pawsey, James
Porter, David (Waveney)
Powell, William (Corby)
Riddick, Graham
Robathan, Andrew
Shaw, David (Dover)
Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)
Stewart, Allan
Thornton, Sir Malcolm
Townend, John (Bridlington)
Tracey, Richard
Twinn, Dr Ian
Vaughan, Sir Gerard
Whitney, Ray
Wiggin, Sir Jerry
Tellers for the Ayes: Mr. P. Nicholls and Mr. J. Brazier.
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NOESColumn 856
Adams, Mrs IreneAinger, Nick
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Alton, David
Armstrong, Hilary
Austin-Walker, John
Banks, Matthew (Southport)
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret
Beggs, Roy
Beith, Rt Hon A J
Berry, Roger
Betts, Clive
Blunkett, David
Bradley, Keith
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)
Burden, Richard
Byers, Stephen
Callaghan, Jim
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Campbell-Savours, D N
Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery)
Chidgey, David
Chisholm, Malcolm
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Dr David (South Shields)
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Clelland, David
Clwyd, Mrs Ann
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Corston, Jean
Cousins, Jim
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)
Dafis, Cynog
Dalyell, Tam
Davidson, Ian
Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)
Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)
Denham, John
Dewar, Donald
Dixon, Don
Donohoe, Brian H
Dunnachie, Jimmy
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eastham, Ken
Etherington, Bill
Ewing, Mrs Margaret
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