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Oral Answers to Questions
SCOTLAND
Miscarriages of Justice
1. Mr. Mullin: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what are the arrangements for dealing with alleged miscarriages of justice in Scotland; and if he will make a statement. [19569]
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Ian Lang): Alleged miscarriages of justice in Scotland may be reviewed by the High Court of Justiciary either on appeal or when a case is referred by me under section 263(1) of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1975. Any convicted person may petition me seeking review of his or her case and I may refer a case to the High Court with or without a petition. It is also open to me in exceptional circumstances to make a recommendation to Her Majesty concerning the royal prerogative of mercy.
Mr. Mullin: Is it not extraordinary that the Scottish legal establishment should seek to exempt itself from the provisions of the Criminal Appeal Bill, which will apply to every other part of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland? Unless I am mistaken, there is a certain complacency about the Scottish legal system's approach to alleged miscarriages of justice. From the many letters that I receive from prisoners in Scottish gaols alleging that they are innocent, I know that there is no cause for such complacency. Should not something similar to the review tribunal proposed in the Criminal Appeal Bill be set up shortly for Scotland?
Mr. Lang: I assure the hon. Gentleman that there is no complacency. Although circumstances in Scotland differ from those south of the border, we have set up a distinguished independent committee under Professor Sir Stuart Sutherland to review the complex issues of handling alleged miscarriages of justice. The committee is expected to report next year and we shall take action on its findings.
I should also point out that the Labour party consultation document, "Protection and Justice", agreed that the procedures for handling alleged miscarriages of justice should not be changed until the effect of possible changes to the criteria applied by the Appeal Court had been considered.
Mr. Hood: Is the Minister aware that there is great concern within the legal profession in Scotland about the disparity between what happens in English courts and in Scottish courts? I remind the Secretary of State that if George Beattie's appeal had been heard in an English court it would have been upheld and he would have been given the justice that he deserves. The Scottish legal system failed George Beattie as it has failed many Scottish people in similar situations over the years. It is time that it was changed and I hope that the Secretary of State will have the courage to come to the Dispatch Box and make that change.
Mr. Lang: The hon. Gentleman makes some rather contentious remarks. The Scottish system suits Scottish circumstances. If we tried to emulate the English system and remodel our arrangements on that, I suspect that there would be a great deal of opposition from both sides of the
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House. On George Beattie's case, the hon. Gentleman has already said that a further petition on his behalf is to be submitted. I am ready to consider any such petition when it arrives.Local Government
2. Mr. Canavan: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what assessment he has made of the future of local government as a result of the local government elections on 6 April. [19570]
Mr. Lang: The structure of local government put in place under the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994 provides a framework within which services can be better tailored to local needs and more effectively delivered. I look to the new authorities to make the most of the opportunities afforded by the new structure.
Mr. Canavan: Now that the Tories have suffered a complete wipe-out in the Scottish local elections, does the Secretary of State agree with his hon. Friend the Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart) that the Scottish Tories face the prospect of yet another wipe-out in the next general election in Scotland, and deservedly so? Does the Secretary of State agree that the Government's policies have been an unmitigated disaster for the people of Scotland and that any sell-out of Scottish Nuclear may turn out to be the last straw?
Mr. Lang: The hon. Gentleman considerably oversimplifies my hon. Friend's remarks and therefore draws entirely wrong conclusions from them. As for the prospects of the Conservative party in the next general election, I refer the hon. Gentleman to similar remarks that he made shortly before the last general election.
Mr. Raymond S. Robertson: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the real danger facing local government in Scotland comes from plans to create a directly elected Scottish Assembly which, in order to play a worthwhile role in the life of Scotland, would certainly take power from this House and would also take powers and responsibilities from every one of the new unitary local authorities throughout Scotland, thereby denying local communities the right to become involved in local decision making? Does my right hon. Friend agree that everyone who believes in strong, accountable, genuinely local government should join us in opposing the Labour party's plans?
Mr. Lang: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Our plan for the single-tier structure now being brought into being is to create a strong, robust system of local democracy, with single-tier, all-purpose authorities throughout the country and having power decentralised in that way. I believe that that is very much to the good of local government. The Labour party's plans to create a Scottish Parliament would clearly draw powers from the outlying parts of Scotland to that Parliament--a centralising process which would be intensely damaging to local government.
Mr. Welsh: Given the complete rejection of the Conservative party and its policies by the Scottish people, does the Minister consider that he had a mandate for appointing the chief executives and chairmen of the unwanted and unnecessary water quangos?
Mr. Lang: It is not a matter of a mandate; it is a matter of parliamentary authority and requirement so to do.
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On the results of the local elections, I cannot think that the hon. Gentleman's party has anything to crow about. We are all starting to wonder what happened to the great Scottish National party breakthrough.Mr. McLoughlin: When the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Bill was passing through the House, my right hon. Friend was accused of gerrymandering the boundaries. Is he aware that many of us in England are envious of his bold decision to create unitary status local authorities and that we would very much like to have seen them repeated in England? Does that not show that there was no gerrymandering? My right hon. Friend acted in the way he thought best for local government in Scotland.
Mr. Lang: My hon. Friend is absolutely right in his conclusion, and I am grateful to him. Nevertheless, I would not urge my English colleagues to emulate Scotland in every respect.
Mr. Watson: The Secretary of State will be aware that one of the responsibilities of local government in Scotland is that of running the district court system. In 1994, 7,000 cases referred by the procurator fiscal's office to the Glasgow district court had to be discontinued as a result of lack of court space and court time. Will the Secretary of State comment on what must be the ultimate miscarriage of justice--when there is no justice because there is no hearing whatsoever? Will he comment on the resources available to Glasgow district court? Will he also liaise with his colleague, the Lord Advocate, to whom I have written about that matter, to ensure that there are adequate resources so that all cases passed by the procurator fiscal's office come to Glasgow district court?
Madam Speaker: I think that the hon. Gentleman must be rather frustrated. His supplementary really relates to the first question. He has rather taken advantage of another question, on local government. If the Secretary of State is willing to answer, of course, then he may do so.
Mr. Lang: I am happy to answer, although I think--indeed, I am sure- -that you are right, as always, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: The right hon. Gentleman must be looking for favours from me.
Mr. Lang: Bread upon the waters, Madam Speaker.
There is, of course, a measure of protection in relation to the bringing of cases to court in Scotland under Scots law. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to write to me with full details of his specific worries, I will pursue the matter further.
Sir David Steel: As Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale is now a Tory- free zone, does the Secretary of State accept that the Prime Minister is quite wrong in ascribing the defeat on 6 April to divisions in the Conservative party, and that the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart) was right--and he should know--when he talked about the disastrous Government policies in Scotland? Will the Secretary of State therefore change the Government's policies in Scotland, stop resisting home rule, stop rail privatisation and stop de-trunking roads?
Mr. Lang: In terms of control of local authorities, Scotland is also a Liberal-free zone. The Liberals received the lowest proportion of the vote of all parties participating in the local elections, so I do not think that
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the right hon. Gentleman has a great deal to crow about. I am confident that the Government are pursuing the right policies. They are delivering excellent results in all the main theatres of Government activity, and that will prove increasingly to be the case.Mr. Bill Walker: Does my right hon. Friend agree that, while the local election results were not good for our party, we have been down that road before and come back? The Conservative party is the oldest party in the United Kingdom, and one of the reasons why we are the oldest surviving functioning party in government at a national level is that we take note of experiences which are not pleasant and act upon them.
Mr. Lang: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have no doubt that we shall act upon the results of the local elections on 6 April and our consideration of them. I am equally confident that at the next general election the Conservative party will be seen to advance further from the position to which it advanced at the last election.
Mr. George Robertson: May I ask the Secretary of State whether, in all modesty, he still believes that the humiliation that he and his party suffered at the hands of the electorate on 6 April had absolutely nothing to do with policy? Does he really believe that the drubbing that the Government received in the elections--which, after all, were created and carved out in the interests of the Scottish Conservative party--had anything to do with what Sir Michael Hirst described as "ingratitude" on the part of the Scottish people? Will the Secretary of State and his party recognise that the Conservative party received a miserable 11 per cent. of the vote in ballot boxes all over Scotland as a serious punishment for the policies that the Government have been practising? Will he bear in mind the comments of the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), who shared the Treasury Bench with him just a few months ago? The hon. Gentleman said:
"The Government cannot afford to take measures that don't reflect public support."
Will the Secretary of State abandon once and for all the Government's hostility to creating a Scottish Parliament? The Scottish people have spoken: surely the Government must now listen.
Mr. Lang: I would not disguise for one moment the fact that the results were extremely disappointing for my party in Scotland. We have already made that clear. We are considering the implications of the results. As I have said, we shall learn from them, recover and advance.
I assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that the creation of a Scottish Parliament is not the cure for Scotland's ills. The creation of a Scottish Parliament, with tax-raising powers and the ability to draw power from local government all over Scotland, would be extremely damaging to Scotland's future within the United Kingdom as well as being economically, socially and constitutionally damaging. We shall resist any such moves.
Green Belt
3. Mr. Harry Greenway: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many acres of Scotland are currently designated as green belt; what the figures were in 1974 and 1979; and if he will make a statement. [19571]
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Sir Hector Monro): The currently designated area of green belt in Scotland is 384,000 acres. The figure for 1974 was 320,000 acres and for 1979 it was 540,000 acres.
Our policies continue to provide resolute protection of Scotland's green belts, which are firmly established in planning authorities and in local plans throughout most of Scotland.
Mr. Greenway: I welcome my hon. Friend's commitment to maintaining Scotland's natural environment, but will he explain those rather puzzling figures and renew the Government's commitment to securing more green belt areas? That contrasts with the Labour party's behaviour in my constituency, where it seeks to build on every blade of grass it can get hold of, including school playing fields. I hope that the Labour party will not do that in Scotland and I hope that it will not be allowed to continue to do so in my constituency.
Sir Hector Monro: The figures are easily explained: the big reduction in acreage comes largely from the reduction in the Dundee green belt, which no longer exists, and a loss of green belt area at Aberdeen-- some 146,000 acres in Aberdeen and 36,000 acres in Dundee. Both local authorities concerned continue a robust countryside policy and are very active in seeing that the countryside is developed properly. I reassure my hon. Friend that the Secretary of State and I and our other colleagues involved in local government administration are very keen to see the green belt policy continue and we will ensure that it is carried out properly.
Mr. Michael J. Martin: The Minister may be aware that some years ago the Secretary of State gave permission for building what amounts to a very small town on 500 acres of grade A agricultural land at Robroyston in my constituency. If the Minister is allowing the development of green belt sites such as Robroyston, will he not only allow houses to be built, but ensure that developers provide facilities such as schools and community services? Houses have been built, but absolutely no services have been provided.
Sir Hector Monro: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. It is essential that when the local authority involved gives planning authority it should make sure that facilities are available. I should not comment on each individual case as the Secretary of State has the final say in such matters, but I will make certain that the point that the hon. Gentleman has raised is given careful consideration and that I or my colleague will write to him.
Mr. Stewart: Does my hon. Friend agree that the development of brown -field sites is essential to restrain pressure on the green belt sites? Will he say a word about the Government's policies in relation to that?
Sir Hector Monro: I commend the exceptionally good work of my hon. Friend while he was the Minister responsible for local government in Scotland, particularly towards urban regeneration in relation to alternative sites and recycled brown-field sites. The Government's plan provides £9 million from Scottish Enterprise over three years for the development of derelict land. Scottish Homes also plays an important part in developing some derelict sites. That shows that the Government are very
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concerned about brown-field sites and we are moving in the right direction with the co-operation of the local authorities concerned.Health Boards
4. Mr. Donohoe: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next expects to meet the chairmen of the health boards to discuss finance. [19572]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Lord James Douglas-Hamilton): My right hon. and noble Friend the Minister of State meets chairmen of health boards regularly to discuss a wide range of strategic issues affecting the national health service in Scotland. Many of those issues may have financial implications. The next meeting will take place on 23 June 1995.
Mr. Donohoe: When the Minister meets the chairman of Ayrshire and Arran health board, which has become a trailblazer towards privatisation, will he suggest that its latest proposal to contract out ante-natal clinics at a rumoured £60 per patient will allow the high level of infant mortality in Ayrshire to continue? In those circumstances, the Government stand accused of causing deaths and infant mortality.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: One of the important principles in contracting out services or main contracts by health boards is that the quality of service and standards must be properly maintained. In addition, appropriate costings and accessibility are key factors to influence such decisions. The hon. Gentleman can rest assured that we want to maintain the highest standards and we shall be very concerned if there is any dropping away from them. Health spending in Scotland this year will be more than £4.3 billion, which is 53 per cent. higher than 1979.
Mr. John Marshall: Can my hon. Friend tell the House how spending per capita on the NHS in Scotland compares with spending per capita in England? Would he expect that difference to be maintained by an independent Scotland or by a Scottish Assembly?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: There is a considerable difference between Scotland and England. Spending per capita in Scotland is almost £150 more than in England. This year it will be £798 per head in Scotland, but only £649 in England. If a Scottish Parliament were established with tax-raising powers, I believe that the extra cost of that would have an impact on other key services in Scotland.
Dr. Godman: In response to what the Minister said about wide-ranging issues with financial implications, the Argyll and Clyde health board is in one hell of a mess over its hospital closure and reprovision programme. The families of patients in the Merchiston, Bridge of Weir and Ravenscraig hospitals are deeply concerned about dilatoriness on the part of the health board. I would not trust that outfit with the management of an ice cream cart or running a menage.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: Before any hospital closure can occur, there must be full consultation. Proposals must go to my right hon. Friend and to the Minister of State, and they would be considered in the greatest detail. The hon. Gentleman's representations and those of his constituents would be carefully borne in mind.
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Mrs. Ray Michie: When the Minister meets health board chairmen, will he tell them how he proposes to tackle the significant shortage of doctors in specialties such as anaesthetics, orthodontics and particularly urology? Is the Minister aware of the critical situation in the many trust hospitals which are unable to fill vacant posts? Whether that is due to mismatching or mismanagement, there is no doubt that the shortage of specialists is contributing to longer waiting lists.Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: The hon. Lady touches on the important point that medical demands and technology are changing. In accordance with consumer demand, we must make certain of the necessary number of general practitioners, which has increased 19 per cent. since 1979. The number of consultants has risen 20 per cent. and the number of nurses by 18 per cent. since 1979. Waiting times have fallen and more people are receiving treatment. There has also been increased investment in improving hospitals. The hon. Lady is right to say that we must consider the problems of the future. Many of the old diseases such as typhoid are with us no longer to the same degree as in the past, and we must adapt to changing circumstances.
Electricity Generation
5. Mr. Gallie: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with the electricity supply industry in Scotland concerning greater utilisation of coal-fired generating plants. [19573]
Mr. Lang: I meet representatives of the two Scottish electricity supply companies from time to time to discuss a range of issues. Any plans for greater use of coal-fired generating plant are for the companies themselves, provided that they can continue to operate within environmental constraints.
Mr. Gallie: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the planned uprating of the east coast overhead lines from 250,000 volts to 440, 000 volts is good news for English customers cost-wise and for Scottish jobs in the electricity supply and coal industry, and good news environmentally in view of the low sulphur content of Scottish coal and the transportation factor of coal by wire?
Mr. Lang: My hon. Friend is right. The quality of Scottish coal is high in terms of the low sulphur content. Consumption increased by 400,000 tonnes last year. If plans for upgrading the interconnector from 1,600 MW to 2,200 MW come to fruition, that will be good news for the Scottish electricity generating industry and for English consumers.
Mr. Ingram: Will the Secretary of State acknowledge that the proposal to subsume Scottish Nuclear into Nuclear Electric has united all political opinion in Scotland--including the Scottish National party, which until now wanted to close down the industry? Does the right hon. Gentleman support the merger proposal? If so, is that not a further example of his selling Scotland short for short-term tax cuts?
Mr. Lang: That is pretty rich coming from a member of the Labour party, whose 1992 manifesto stated:
"Britain's dependence on nuclear power will therefore steadily diminish."
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The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the SNP manifesto promised a non-nuclear Scotland, but Labour also promised to run down the nuclear energy industry. I am concerned to secure the best long-term future in Scotland for the Scottish nuclear generating industry. The scaremongering, alarm and speculation stirred up by Labour is entirely misleading--above all, to those people whose employment depends on the nuclear industry in Scotland.Mr. Salmond: Will the Secretary of State now answer the question? Is he personally in favour, as press reports suggest, of a merger of Scottish Nuclear and Nuclear Electric before privatisation? If so, is he aware that no one outside the Scottish Office shares that opinion? Opposition to it ranges from nuclear enthusiasts such as James Hann and Donald Miller to nuclear sceptics such as myself and Friends of the Earth-- [Interruption.] To unite Donald Miller and Friends of the Earth is a substantial achievement. What has changed since the late 1980s, when it was decided to leave Scottish Nuclear under Scottish control and under public control? Is it really that the Government just need the money for tax cuts, at any expense to Scottish jobs or to nuclear safety?
Mr. Lang: The Government are concerned to achieve the long-term future of the nuclear generating industry. That is something which the hon. Gentleman and the Scottish National party are pledged to destroy and which the Labour party would also destroy. We are working towards a solution which will maintain high employment, quality jobs and a successful nuclear generating industry in Scotland, and in due course such a solution will be announced.
Mr. Home Robertson: The Secretary of State will be aware that I have a constituency interest both in coal burning, at Cockenzie, and in Scottish Nuclear, at Torness. Will he now tackle the immediate issues surrounding the future of Scottish Nuclear? First, will he accept the case for keeping this uniquely sensitive industry in the public sector? Secondly, will he honour the undertaking given by his predecessor to Sir Donald Miller that Scottish Nuclear will remain as a distinct Scottish entity? We want no sops, no bogus autonomy--just a distinct Scottish entity.
Mr. Lang: I am happy to give the hon. Gentleman that assurance: it will indeed, as required by the nuclear energy agreement. Maintaining the industry in the public sector is, however, precisely what would create a twilight zone for the nuclear generating industry in Scotland--and its ultimate demise. We are looking for the long-term survival, growth, expansion and prosperity of the industry in Scotland and elsewhere around the United Kingdom.
Mr. George Robertson: Does the Secretary of State not recognise that the whole idea of privatising a merged nuclear power industry makes absolutely no sense? On grounds of safety and security and of efficiency and profitability, Scottish Nuclear should stay firmly and permanently in the public sector. Is not this nuclear madness just another panic-stricken, money-grabbing tactic by the Treasury? The Secretary of State for Scotland has yet again been outvoted, outargued and outgunned in Cabinet. Will he stand up in Cabinet tomorrow for common sense and for Scotland, or will there be a white flag flying over St. Andrew's house as well as overNo. 10 Downing street?
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Mr. Lang: There may be a red face on the Opposition Front Bench as I do not expect the matter to be decided in Cabinet tomorrow. I repeat that we are concerned to secure the long-term future of the industry. I do not believe that Labour party policy could ever deliver that.I am appalled by the hon. Gentleman's scaremongering in referring to jobs being lost in Scotland. He talked of 1,000 jobs being lost at East Kilbride as a result of Government proposals. That is rubbish. Apart from anything else, there are only 400 jobs at East Kilbride, so it would be difficult to lose more than twice that number. In fact, I expect the number of jobs in Scotland to increase if we can secure the right package for the future of the industry.
Health Boards
7. Mr. Robert Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent discussions he has had with health boards about the future of the NHS; and if he will make a statement. [19575]
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: My right hon. and noble Friend the Minister of State meets the chairmen of health boards regularly. They discuss a wide range of matters concerning the national health service in Scotland.
Mr. Hughes: When did the Scottish Office become aware of the cancer treatment initiative launched by the Secretary of State for Health and why has the Scottish Office yet to produce its own initiative? Is the Minister not aware--as I am, from constituency experience--of the vast disparities in the treatment of breast cancer and non-breast cancers alike? As a matter of urgency, will the Minister bring out his plans for a new health initiative on cancer treatment and state how much additional money will be devoted to ensuring that patients suffering from this dangerous disease get the best possible service?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: I can assure the hon. Gentleman that as soon as the alarming information about breast cancer scanning in Dundee became known investigations were immediately carried out. It was found that well under 1 per cent. were affected and the matter was put right with all possible speed. I shall look into the hon. Gentleman's points about funding and initiatives in this area. I shall also bring his comments to the attention of my right hon. and noble Friend the Minister of State.
Mr. McAvoy: When Ministers meet representatives of the Greater Glasgow health board, will they take into account the great concern felt by people in its area about Tory Government cuts which affect the health service delivered to people there? Not least, will he discuss the fact that the finance-driven cuts imposed by the Government on the Greater Glasgow health board mean that the health board is proposing the closure of the safest and most modern maternity hospital in its area, at Rutherglen? When will the Government realise that, as the recent local elections showed, the people of Scotland and of the Greater Glasgow health board area demand that the Government properly fund the national health service?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: Glasgow has substantial funding, and we have to bear it in mind that the capitation grant gives a higher percentage share per head of population to those living in Glasgow because of the particular needs of people in the area.
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As for the hon. Gentleman's interest in the future of Rutherglen maternity hospital, I am aware that the consultation has been extended as a result of the persuasive representations that he made on behalf of his constituents. We must await the outcome of Greater Glasgow health board's consideration of the consultation exercise which has been extended to 31 May. If any closures are proposed, the matter will be put before the Secretary of State, who will have to be certain that any new proposals will be every bit as good as, if not better than, the current position. The hon. Gentleman's representations will be carefully considered.Mr. Kirkwood: Will the Minister include on the agenda of his discussions with health boards about the future of the NHS the arrangements to be made for the negotiation of pay at a local level for nurses? Will he confirm that the Scottish Office has made available only enough money to allow a total increase at a maximum of 2.5 per cent. as opposed to the 3 per cent. available to nurses in the rest of the United Kingdom? Is that not shortchanging Scottish nurses? Does the Minister not believe that it is completely ludicrous for trusts such as the two established in the Borders region 26 days ago to undertake the complicated and difficult business of trying to negotiate local settlements for nurses? It is a disgrace, and he should use his influence at a national level to keep nationally negotiated rates of pay for nurses.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: That is certainly not my information. My information is that the review body said that it expects local pay on top of the national 1 per cent. to lead to increases of between 1.5 and 3 per cent. for most nurses. I strongly recommend that those involved carry out negotiations at the local level. The point of local pay is to make services more responsive to local needs. We believe that the nearer to patients decisions are taken, the better they are likely to be. I must also mention that the Scottish Office intends to issue guidance shortly on this matter.
Mr. McAllion: When the sick are shuttled across the country in search of beds because too many local beds have been closed, when the private Health Care International hospital is given NHS money to take on extra staff while an NHS hospital such as the Glasgow royal infirmary is given less money and cannot afford to fill staff vacancies, and when junior doctors are worked and exploited to the point of exhaustion, to the extent that some become sick and even contemplate suicide, is it not time, for the sake of the future of the NHS, that the Government abandoned their pernicious market reforms, returned the NHS to its original purpose, which was to meet medical needs, and did not pander to private greed?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: On the performance of the health service in Scotland, the number of people on waiting lists fell by 4 per cent. in 1994; fewer people are experiencing lengthy waits; and more people than ever are being treated. We are absolutely determined to ensure that our national health service is second to none and we shall work flat out to ensure that.
With regard to the private sector and the new hospital buildings required, the efficiency of the private sector may help public sector funds to go very much further in the best interests of patients. Of course, health service funding has increased enormously over the years.
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Mr. Robert Hughes: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.University Funding
8. Mrs. Liddell: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he last met the chairman of the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council to discuss university funding. [19576]
Mr. Lang: I met the chairman of the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council in November 1994 to discuss a range of subjects, including the funding of higher education.
Mrs. Liddell: Will the Secretary of State seek an early meeting with the chairman of the Scottish Higher Education Funding Council and place on the agenda a revision of the importance of higher education to Scotland's economic and social well-being? Will he also consider at that meeting the devastating effect on Scottish higher education of the 35 per cent. reduction over five years in the unit of resource available for each student currently in higher education? Failure to do so would show that the Secretary of State was weak, out of touch and determined to sell out Scotland's economic and social future.
Mr. Lang: I am afraid that the hon. Lady seems to have got her facts wrong, because not only do we recognise the importance of higher education but we have doubled the participation of the relevant age group in higher education since the Labour Government left power. We are making provision for a 2.5 per cent. expansion in student numbers next year.
Mrs. Liddell: What about student resources?
Mr. Lang: On resources--I hear the hon. Lady murmur from a sedentary position--let me point out that, since 1989, there has been a 19 per cent. increase in real terms in grant and loans.
Mr. Stewart: Does my right hon. Friend agree that there has been a steady increase in the number in higher education in Scotland, against a steady flow of forecasts from Opposition Members that the figures would go in the opposite direction? Is it not an indication of the Government's commitment to higher education in Scotland that, although Scotland has only 9 per cent. of the population, it provides 12 per cent. of the number in higher education in Great Britain?
Mr. Lang: My hon. Friend makes his point extremely well. He is right to say that we have been committed to the expansion of higher education and have been successfully delivering it. That has been done with no loss of quality. Indeed, some 30 per cent. of departments appraised recently were categorised as excellent.
Mr. Galbraith: When the Secretary of State meets the chairman of the Higher Education Funding Council, will he discuss with him the possibility of developing a much simpler system for assessing research in universities? Does he not realise that, under the current system, more time is spent on talking about past research and what will happen in the future than is spent on research in the present? Is it not time that we had a simpler system that encouraged research rather than taking up the time of bureaucrats?
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Mr. Lang: I shall certainly bear in mind the hon. Gentleman's remarks. Research is extremely important and is something to which the Government have given considerable attention and resources.Highlands and Islands
9. Mr. Macdonald: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next expects to meet Highlands and Islands Enterprise to discuss funding. [19577]
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: I shall meet the board of Highlands and Islands Enterprise later this year to discuss its latest operating plan and the funding that it requires.
Mr. Macdonald: The Minister will know that the fishing industry is very important to the Highlands and Islands Enterprise area and that there is great concern about the prospect of Spanish access to the west coast and how it will affect the fishing industry. Is not it necessary to follow the example of the recent agreement between Canada and Spain and insist on an independent and firm system of monitoring and apportionment of that access to ensure that it does not lead to overfishing and the long-term destruction of the fishing industry on the west coast?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: I certainly agree with what the hon. Gentleman said about monitoring. There is no doubt that fish stocks around the world are coming under increasing pressure, and it is vital that proper conservation measures are introduced. It is equally essential that enforcement and monitoring are imposed. Britain will support sensible measures in the European Union, the United Nations and elsewhere to achieve that.
I also support what the hon. Gentleman said with regard to Spain having restricted access to western waters. It has been kept out of the Irish sea and will have only restricted access to the rest of the Irish box. Its fishing levels in other western waters cannot increase. Spanish fishing will be limited by quotas. The Government will take on board the hon. Gentleman's points.
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