House of Commons Hansard Debates for 3 May 1995

Mr. Keith Mans (Wyre): I am grateful to have the opportunity to say a few words in this excellent debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) on obtaining the debate and I identify myself with his remarks, which he made based on his deep knowledge of Lancashire over many decades and that of his family over many centuries.

I am a reasonably recent immigrant to Lancashire, but, as a result of my experience elsewhere on planning committees and local councils, I am convinced of the importance of local and structure plans. Certainty is needed to get the planning process moving in the right direction and to allow people to plan for the future. But if we have such plans--my remarks relate particularly to Lancashire county council's structure plan--they must be based on accurate data. One of the most worrying assumptions for the coming decade in the Lancashire county structure plan is the inflow of population to my borough at a rate of about 850 people a year. Therefore, we should look closer at whether such assumptions are correct. I do not think that they are, in which case all the other assumptions concerning housing are inaccurate. We shall be driving forward a process which is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because one builds the houses, people will be encouraged to live in Lancashire when, without such assumptions in the first place, there would probably be a much better balance involving people in the county, people coming in and the amount of housing and green belt.

It is suggested that my borough will have 6,000 more houses in the next 10 years. I believe that that is totally wrong. It is a large increase. As my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North said, it is a 66,000 increase across the county. One tenth of those new houses in Lancashire will be built in the borough of Wyre.

My borough council has looked closely at the figures and it says: "On the basis of the socio-economic trends, the borough council proposes to challenge these assumptions. Perhaps more importantly"-- I emphasise this--

"the borough council does not view the continuation or encouragement of development on such a scale as being desirable because it would seriously compromise environmental and other legitimate planning objectives."

If I have a criticism of the Lancashire county structure plan in relation to housing, it is that it has not taken into account those other factors.

If we analyse the present situation, we do not see in Lancashire, and particularly in Wyre, a huge increase in house prices. Therefore, there is no evidence on the ground that there are not enough houses. Indeed, the opposite happens. My hon. Friend mentioned Fleetwood. For the past four or five years a development site next to the old commercial dock could have been used for

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residential development, but no one has come along to build houses on it and, most recently, some of the land has been taken for retail space.

If there is a pent-up demand for houses, why has that development not gone ahead? My real point is that we should look less at the predictions of experts at county hall of what will happen to the population in Lancashire during the coming years and much more closely at what is happening on the ground where sites are available but have not been taken up.

Mr. Pike: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Mans: I am afraid that I cannot because I have only a couple of minutes.

I am convinced that the right way forward is for us to concentrate our developments in towns, as has been said, and ensure that we revitalise towns such as Fleetwood and Lancaster rather than gobbling up green belt around towns such as Garstang and Poulton-le-Fylde and villages such as Knott End, Preesall and Pilling. There is a suggestion that 60 acres adjacent to Knott End should be used for 600 new houses which would increase the village's population by 50 per cent. That would change the character of that village. There is no doubt that that would happen across the borough and the county if the county assumptions on the increase in population during the next 10 years were to be realised. That is unacceptable.

There is much good in the document on the greening of Lancashire, although I rather agree with my hon. Friend that in many ways it could be described as the browning of the county. What is important is that we concentrate on urban areas and do not gobble up any more green belt.

I have been involved in planning and local government for many years and the one thing that is striking is the constant change in the guidance that comes out of the Department of the Environment. I am pleased that such guidance is now in tune with what I have been saying. I am convinced that certainty and encouragement to developers to develop brown lands within towns, rather than green belt around towns, will be to the benefit of communities and have a useful on-going effect because the lack of development will mean a reduction in transport and other needs.

I sincerely hope that the public inquiry into the structure plan comes up with the sort of proposals that my hon. Friends and I have articulated this morning.

12.26 pm

Mr. Nick Hawkins (Blackpool, South): I am delighted to have an opportunity to speak in the debate. I shall be brief so that my hon. Friends can contribute. It is a matter of enormous pleasure to all my hon. Friends that my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) has obtained this important debate. I echo the remarks that have been made about his distinguished previous service as a Lancashire county councillor for the Wyreside ward. I think that I am right in recalling that he was at that time, by some distance, the youngest Lancashire county councillor and one of the youngest ever to have served on the county council. I have no doubt that the experience that he gained during his time as a Lancashire county councillor has been of enormous importance to him.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wyre (Mr. Mans) touched on the great historic tradition of the family of my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North. Like my

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hon. Friend the Member for Wyre, unfortunately I do not have that benefit. I am a more recent arrival in Lancashire, but my wife's family has been in Lancashire for generations. In the few years that I have had the honour to represent Blackpool, South, I have acquired some knowledge of some of the problems that arise as a result of the peculiar approach of Lancashire county council, under its current leadership, to these matters. In the short time available, I want to touch briefly on one or two issues that I think are particularly important.

My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North stressed the crucial importance of getting planning policy right by basing it on accurate statistics. I very much share his disbelief, and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre, in the projected figures for the incoming population in the next few years. As has been said, if they are wrong, the planning policies are wrong. I am sure that we shall not see a massive influx of population into Lancashire and that, therefore, we should not be seeing vast amounts of building.

My constituency is entirely urban. I want proper housing policies to exist which develop existing urban land with good-quality housing. As my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North rightly said, unfortunately there are areas of great deprivation in his constituency and mine. Those are the areas where there needs to be new building. We need rejuvenation of the town centres, not more despoliation of the countryside.

I am lucky enough to come from a farming family, and I have seen the destruction of the countryside in other regions. I do not want to see any more of it in Lancashire. Let the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike) and Labour members of Lancashire county council be in no doubt that, if the daft policy of building vast numbers of new houses is carried through by that council's Labour leadership, they will be blamed by future generations and the people of Lancashire will never forgive or forget that the Labour party came up with that policy. The problem with the council's Labour leadership is that it thinks that, by producing glossy reports and using titles such as "Green in the Red Rose County", people will not bother to read them and will think that the council believes in green environmental policies because it says so on the cover. I tell the hon. Gentleman and Labour Lancashire county councillors that people are wiser than that; they do read the contents.

I should like to draw attention in particular to another bulky and glossy report on environmental issues recently produced by Lancashire county council's Labour leadership. It was launched at an expensive reception at the Cafe Royal in the presence of His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales. It is called "Public Perceptions and Sustainability in Lancashire". It was produced with taxpayers' money--the people of Lancashire's money. Those people would be angry if they were aware that the bulk of that glossy report--pages 24 to 70, not including the introduction and the appendices-- contained vernacular quotations from focus groups. Under the heading "Sustainability and Environment", we have such quotes as:

"Who would actually come up with this term? A speech writer. Political. A slogan. It's too long to be a slogan. Not catchy. Could be used on management courses. You are saying this is not catchy, it's a long word. Is it not catchy because it's too long or is it something else about it? It's quite a good word because when you think about it you know what it means."

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Is that the sort of nonsense that the people of Lancashire want their taxes spent on? There are 40 to 50 pages of such rubbish and they cost Lancashire taxpayers a lot of money. Lancashire county council should have a better structure plan and stop wasting taxpayers' money on that sort of thing.

I should touch on a couple of other issues. I agree on one point made by the hon. Member for Burnley. It is crucial that we have electrification of the rail link to Blackpool and that we have proper public transport services. My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North rightly says that great scope exists to develop the Blackpool tramway system into a proper light rail system. Plans were recently made by one of our local tourism entrepreneurs, Mr. Michael Taylor, to reopen the Poulton-Fleetwood rail link, which I strongly support and from which we would benefit.

I agree with the concern expressed by my hon. Friend about the development of a green-field site in South Ribble for a rail terminal. We need a rail terminal, but we do not want it on a green-field site. I have no doubt that my hon. Friend the Minister for the Environment and Countryside will have his own views on that. I agree that we need to safeguard areas of outstanding natural beauty much better, and to pay much closer attention to the important contribution that farmers make to the environment throughout Lancashire. Coming from a farming family, I know only too well that it is farmers who have looked after the British countryside. The problem with the Labour leadership of Lancashire county council is that it almost never listens to farmers. That is why farmers have the sense to support the Conservative party and Government.

Some road developments in the county are good. Yesterday, I attended the opening in my constituency of the new Squire's gate link road, 50 per cent. of which was funded by the Government as a result of my lobbying the then Minister with responsibility for roads, my hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Sir K. Carlisle).

The Labour party and, in particular, the Labour leadership of Lancashire county council should be aware of one more piece of poetry from the immortal Robert Burns, who wrote:

"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us

To see oursels as others see us!"

12.34 pm

Mr. Den Dover (Chorley): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) on securing today's debate. Structure plans map out the future of a county for many years ahead. Too often, we leave it to the last minute and then start complaining when it is far too late.

The previous version of the structure plan showed that the bulk of development in the county would take place in what is called central Lancashire. On closer examination, one saw that it referred to the area just around Chorley, Leyland and Preston to the south of the river. That is only a small portion of the county. As we can see from the document, there have been enormous growth rates in my region of Chorley--it has by far the largest urban development rate in the county.

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As other hon. Members have said, the number of houses forecast for the next 15 years is far too large. On page 33 of the document, the county council refers to Chorley, saying that it will ensure that the rate of build is below that of market trends and requirements; but when one turns to the actual figures, there is no reduction in the current rate, which has been the largest in the county. That is not good enough. We should ensure that we respond to market trends and do not over-build housing.

In the Chorley, Leyland and Preston area, far too many estates are the aftermath of the actions of the Central Lancashire development corporation. That ended some nine years ago. The Labour Government were trying to bend the process and ensure that all housing was rented. As soon as the Conservative Government came to power in 1979, they stopped that. They allowed only housing for sale to be built. I appreciate that measure and the closure of plans for the central Lancashire new town. Housing trends must be strictly, and only, in line with local people's requirements. We do not want massive immigration, about which hon. Members spoke this morning. The motorway service areas of Charnock Richard on the M6 and Rivington on the M61 are in my constituency. I am delighted that they are referred to in the development plan, but I would like some transport link route towards Chorley at Charnock Richard. I pay tribute to those farsighted people who on the A43 junction of the M1 near Rothersthorpe have built a superb transport link by the service station. I hope that we can look forward to such a link at Charnock Richard.

I welcome very much the intention to have railway stations rebuilt at Coppull and Euxton, the village in my constituency where I live. That is good news, but, with full resources, it has taken the county council and British Rail three or four years to introduce disabled access to platforms at Parbold, one of the villages that I represent. We need a faster rate of growth and we need those railway stations to be built in the next few years if they are going to make sense in terms of transport links.

12.37 pm

Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member or Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) on his success in securing the debate. It is an important debate for all of us who live in and work on behalf of the people of Lancashire. I was going to quote from three poems this morning, but they have all been used by other hon. Members, so I shall press on speedily and talk about how important the environment is in Lancashire and, especially, in the Ribble valley.

Like many other hon. Members, I was not born in the constituency that I represent, but I am proud to live in the Ribble valley and I am passionate about wanting to preserve that region. Many people will know my constituency well. It attracts many tourists. When I first came to the Ribble Valley, I lived in Downham, a small, superbly managed village owned almost in its entirety by Lord Clitheroe. Dominating one end of the village is Pendle hill. At the other end, one has the Assheton Arms and the church. From that church, one has a most splendid view over the whole of Downham.

Downham was the village where the film "Whistle Down the Wind" was made in 1961, with Alan Bates and Hayley Mills. I am sure that many people remember that

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film, which is a classic of its time. The surprising thing is that the village has not altered at all in the 30-odd years since that film was made.

It is a superb region. It is preserved, but not fossilised. It is a warm community. In my constituency, I have many villages such as Downham--I am loth to mention them just in case I miss some out--which are superb and attract many visitors. The problem is that the structure plan is a threat and a warning to those villages. It aims to target a certain area in my constituency--a path stretching from one side of it to the other, which is referred to as a "corridor". It would be a corridor of concrete, and would destroy the peace and quiet and the distinct character of many of the villages. I know that the cry will go up, "It is only one more green field," but then, there will be "only" another green field, and then one more. Will that continue until there is only one green field left? We must do something about it now. We have the area of outstanding natural beauty, which constitutes 70 per cent. of my constituency, but many areas outside it are equally beautiful, and they should be protected and guarded, too.

That is not a case of "not in my back yard", because we have already given way to much development in the Ribble valley. Clitheroe, Barrow, Whalley, Ribchester, Longridge and many more of my villages have succumbed to some development already. We need to protect the distinct character of the villages so that the Ribble valley's front garden does not become Blackburn's or Preston's back yard, so that one cannot distinguish between some of the villages and the sprawl that would cover many of the areas to the south and west. I am not against all development. I fully support many developments based on former large institutions--acceptable developments on the footprints of existing buildings. I have already supported one such development in Brockhall, and I shall support another in Calderstones. But that development must take place only on the footprint of the hospital and not on any of the green-field sites around it. Whittingham hospital is another site where development should be allowed on the footprint of the buildings but not on the surrounding green-field sites.

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Chorley (Mr. Dover), I believe that Lancashire county council has got the number of people in our area, and therefore the number of houses needed, totally wrong. The figures do not equate. Given the number of people who occupy the houses now, and the number we think will want to live in our area up to the year 2006, we should be thinking in terms of 15,000 houses, not 66,000. Such a move would release a lot of the pressure on the area.

There is much more that I wanted to say, but I shall finish now. I agree with much of what my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North said about regenerating the towns and cities so that people will want to live there. That would relieve the pressure on the villages.

I do not want future generations to look back on old photographs of our green and pleasant land and have to ponder why we let it go. It is not ours to let go; we are the trustees for future generations. The countryside is their inheritance; it is not for our consumption. How green is my valley? It is very green--all shades of green--and flooding it with concrete will kill it for ever. We must not allow that to happen.

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12.42 pm

Mr. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East): I, too, begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) on securing the debate. I feel rather ashamed that I did not consult the "Oxford Book of English Verse" or the "Oxford Book of Films" so that I could refer to suitable titles and poems, and I wait with great interest to see whether the Minister has his own stock of poems ready to read out--in appropriate accents, of course.

I am delighted to see so many Lancashire Members here, especially my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike). Another Lancashire Member, my hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw), has asked me to pass on his apologies, as he cannot attend; he very much wanted to participate in the debate.

I also take the opportunity to congratulate Gordon Johnson, the chief executive of Lancashire county council, and his officers and the members of the council, on their excellent work. Hon. Members have acknowledged that work and, although they have also criticised aspects of the plan, they have generally welcomed what it has said. Being in local government over the past 10 years or so has not been an easy task, and I believe that Lancashire county council has done its best to provide decent services. As my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley said, the county council has been acknowledged as a pioneering authority in several respects. It is required by sections 30 and 32 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, as amended by the Planning and Compensation Act 1991, to keep under review matters that might be expected to affect the development or planning of its area, and to update its structure plan.

The structure plan is therefore concerned with resolving major issues facing the county and identifying other issues. It covers the period from mid-1991 to mid-2006, and has four main functions. First, it establishes the level of development that must be provided for if the future needs of the county's population are to be adequately met, while ensuring that the resultant pattern of land use is both efficient in terms of use of resources, including the consumption of land and energy, and consistent with national and regional policy. Secondly, the plan sets out the county council's long-term policies for development, use of land and traffic management, and provides a strategic framework for local planning and the control of development. Thirdly, it secures consistency between local plans for neighbouring areas within the county. Fourthly, it provides developers with initial and general guidance as to whether major proposals for new developments are likely to accord with the overall planning strategy for the county. That gives developers a strategic context in which to make investment decisions, by giving long-term guidance concerning, for example, the scale and location of population, housing and growth.

The structure plan is therefore concerned with identifying the very issues that hon. Members on both sides of the House have mentioned. It provides that context as a background for future investment and development decisions by both the public and the private sector throughout Lancashire as a whole, to achieve sustainable economic growth and environmental protection and to take the county forward into the 21st century.

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My hon. Friend the Member for Burnley has mentioned the pioneering environmental work that the county council has done, and the European Community prize that it won, with the city of Lyon, for work that, in the words of one judge, showed a pioneering effort to provide sustainable development planning at a regional level.

My hon. Friend did not have time today, and nor have I, to mention the level of jobs and investment that the county council has brought into the area, although I can mention some examples. The council and its economic development agency have brought a clear strategic focus to bear on the county's economic needs. Over the past decade, 22,000 jobs and training places have been created by Lancashire Enterprises, which has invested £15 million in more than 200 small and medium enterprises.

Other notable achievements, as I am sure the House is aware, include the rescue of Leyland Trucks, which is now a prospering manufacturing centre of excellence, the regeneration of the Leeds-Liverpool canal corridor, which has levered in investment of £80 million, and the help for Lancashire's seaside resorts, including Blackpool. I am sorry that the hon. Members for Blackpool, North and for Blackpool, South (Mr. Hawkins) did not take the opportunity to thank the council for that work.

Mr. Hawkins: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Vaz: No, I shall not give way. The Opposition have been generous to Conservative Members, and have given them all an opportunity to participate in the debate. The Minister also wants to speak, and it would not be right for me to give way when I have several more points to make on behalf of the Opposition.

The hon. Member for Blackpool, North, as we heard, was a member of the county council for four years, and he had several things to say. Echoing Larkin, he chose to speak for England and to describe the despoiling of the countryside. However, I know that he has participated in previous planning debates, so he ought to know that the enormous difficulties with planning have been caused by the Government's guidance.

As the Minister announced during a recent debate on retail planning, a review has been undertaken of PPG6 and PPG13 precisely because the Government's guidance was not clear. On other occasions, the hon. Gentleman spoke of the need to invest in town and city centres. He was right to do so, but the reason why that investment has not happened over the past 16 years is that Government planning policy has not been clear. That is why so many out-of-town developments have emerged in so many parts of the country- -and, indeed, why his own town centre is threatened by such developments. He is right to say to the Minister that it is extremely important that the Government should come up with clear guidance on out-of-town developments.

The hon. Gentleman also mentioned the fact that so many people--5 million in four years--have left our major towns and cities in Britain. Over the past few years, they have left our towns and cities in such great numbers because the Government have failed to invest in our towns and city centres. Even the new policy of the single regeneration budget has not provided the necessary means by which local authorities and the public and private sector can work together to put forward bids to regenerate

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the town centres. We need to look at the way in which our urban areas are run. We need to ensure that there is proper investment and that local councils are aware of the importance of town centre management. That is the only way in which we shall obtain effective and sustainable growth in our town and city centres.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned transport--a subject mentioned by other Conservative Members as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley. Without an effective and efficient transport system which does not require the public to pay vast amounts of money to travel on it, we shall never achieve sustainable towns and city centres. We fully support the hon. Gentleman's desire to see Blackpool airport developed. He will know that the structure plan contains specific points in support of that proposal.

The hon. Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (Sir M. Lennox-Boyd) supports the roads that help his constituents but does not support the roads that the hon. Member for Blackpool, North supports. I do not intend to intrude on the private or public grief of Conservative Members, but the county council has advanced proposals that it believes will alleviate the distress and anxiety caused to many thousands of people in the local area. It has advanced the proposals that it believes will best meet the needs of local areas. The hon. Member for Wyre (Mr. Mans) said that he believed that local plans and structure plans should provide certainty. He is right. But that is precisely what is not provided at present. That is why the Labour party has instituted a review into the planning process. Unless there is certainty, the private sector and local authorities cannot plan sufficiently and properly. That is why we believe that planning guidance should be considered extremely carefully by Ministers and civil servants before it is issued. There is no point in issuing guidance, then coming to the House and telling the public and private sector that unfortunately the guidance will have to be withdrawn and the ministerial speech will have to be taken as the best example of planning policy. That is clearly not sufficient and the problem must be seriously addressed.

The hon. Member for Blackpool, South talked about the need for rejuvenation of town centres. He has said that before and he knows where the blame lies- -clearly with the Government's failure to invest in our towns and city centres. The new single regeneration budget does not provide the means to deal with the problem.

The hon. Member for Blackpool, South spoilt his contribution by his attack on the leadership of the county council. I throw him a challenge and invite him to let me show the glossy brochures sent to us by Ministers of the Crown. We can compare them with what Lancashire county council has produced to see whether Lancashire has gone over the top in providing information. All local authorities should provide information and whether it is glossy or not is not a serious political point.

The hon. Members for Chorley (Mr. Dover) and for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) also spoke.

My hon. Friend the Member for Burnley said that he believed that the structure plan provided a sensible and balanced approach. He also said, which may sound obvious, that a consultation process is taking place. I urge each of the Conservative Members and their local councils to participate in that consultation process. If the evidence given to the public inquiry and the consultation

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process is as good and the points are as serious as most of the points made today, that will help Lancashire county council and the people of Lancashire to fashion a structure plan that will be able to provide a basis for the development of Lancashire into the next century.

12.54 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Sir Paul Beresford): I must add my congratulations to my hon. Friend thMember for Blackpool, North (Mr. Elletson) on today's debate. We have received much good advice and heard some interesting points. As ever, he never misses an opportunity to put in a bid for more finance for his area.

My hon. Friends the Members for Morecambe and Lunesdale (Sir M. Lennox- Boyd), for Wyre (Mr. Mans), for Blackpool, South (Mr. Hawkins), for Chorley (Mr. Dover) and for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) also contributed to the debate. Even with the contribution of the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike), it felt as though we were listening to a family debate. There was plenty of excellent advice, particularly for the county council. The comments of the hon. Member for Burnley made me feel young--certainly in the way in which he approaches privatisation and the benefits that it will bring.

The hon. Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Vaz) blamed the Government for the failure of Labour councils in the inner cities, which is to be blind beyond belief. One has only to walk across the river to see the incompetence in London and the way in which that is carried through to the inner cities up and down the country. It is not a case of investment, which is being made. The destruction of the inner cities by Labour councils is beyond belief. The only reason why we are starting to make some progress is that the Conservative Government have had the gumption to move in and utilise partnerships to bring in the private sector and bring about a change in the ethos of inner cities which will give us much greater hope of doing something in terms of the countryside and attracting people back into the inner cities.

We have been discussing Lancashire, particularly its new structure plan, which is the subject of a public examination that started yesterday and is programmed to run until the end of the month. Therefore, as noted by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North, the timing is delicate and it is difficult for me to do more than comment in broad outline.

The county has appointed a panel to carry out the examination in public. It has the job of considering the key issues and objections and to make recommendations to the county council in the light of them. The Lancashire structure plan is an essential component in the overall planning blueprint that will take the north-west of England into the 21st century. But it is only one element: the plan must comply with national policies, which are reflected in the planning policy guidance notes and regional planning guidance.

I should like to draw my hon. Friends' attention to three recent initiatives which seek to enhance and safeguard the quality of the environment of town and country. First,

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I should like to refer to the recently revised guidance note on green belts, PPG2. The Government continue to attach great importance to green belts. They have been an essential part of planning policy for four decades and are intended to serve several purposes, including separating towns and villages and restraining encroachment on the countryside. The purposes of the green belt policy and the related development control policies set out in 1955 remain valid today with remarkably little alteration.

Secondly, of equal importance is the need to conserve and enhance the environment of town and country. In that respect, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment has initiated a discussion on quality in town and country. That seeks to take a fresh look at our villages, towns and cities and asks how we can best safeguard their distinctive character and future viability--the essence of my hon. Friends' points.

Thirdly, the Government's intention to produce a rural White Paper was announced jointly by my right hon. Friends the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Secretary of State for the Environment last October. The rural White Paper will cover the full range of economic, social and environmental issues affecting today's countryside.

The regional context for Lancashire's new structure plan is provided by the Government's draft regional planning guidance for the north-west which was launched recently. The guidance is largely based on advice from the north- west regional association of local authorities in its document "Greener Growth". It outlines a framework for providing new homes and jobs, but emphasises that new development should be located to reduce the need to travel and should be well served by public transport. The emphasis is on sustainable growth in line with the thrust of our national policies-- particularly those that I have just mentioned.

The guidance makes it clear that we are planning for prosperity and a region fit for the 21st century, with the aim of maximising the north- west's competitiveness and quality of life without damaging its magnificent heritage. With the next Conservative Government, we shall be able to continue that. We are looking for regeneration and sustainable economic development. We use those as the key watchwords.

Within Lancashire, the guidance proposes allowing for regeneration and modest development associated with the main self-contained towns along transport corridors. As my hon. Friends have emphasised, the county's agricultural land, landscape and natural environment are second to none. For example, Fylde and south-west Lancashire contain some of the best farming areas. We have the forest of Bowland, Morecambe bay and the Ribble estuary. I shall make no comment on green valleys.

The examination in public of the structure plan's proposals is now under way. We have had some excellent guidance and hints today from hon. Members on both sides of the House about the way in which we should approach the plan and move forward. I can assure my hon. Friends that the panel will consider fully all the issues--

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Morris): Order.

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Firearms

1 pm

Mr. Terry Lewis (Worsley): I am grateful for the opportunity to raise once again on the Adjournment the question of firearms. I make no apology for returning to the subject. As hon. Members will recall, I have brought to the attention of the House several events that have happened from time to time, of which the Minister is fully aware. I am prompted today by the recent spate of firearms offences in the north-west. There was yet another theft from domestic premises in Salford only last week. The House will remember that I previously drew attention to the theft of eight hand guns held legally in premises in Greater Manchester. Three of those hand guns subsequently appeared at the scenes of crimes. Tragically, they resulted in three deaths and one serious wounding. That is sufficient reason for the House to turn its attention to blocking off as far as possible one source of weaponry from the criminal fraternity.

I accept that there are many routes by which criminals gain possession of firearms. I also accept that the majority of people who shoot for pleasure and sport are responsible people. However, as in many other walks of life, those who are irresponsible or less than careful tend to compromise the majority. It causes me a great deal of worry that insufficient attention has been given to depriving criminals of weaponry. The spate of incidents to which I shall refer is a truly frightening catalogue.

On Good Friday, a man was shot to death on the streets of Salford while riding his bike. The case has still to come to court. I believe that arrests have been made. The story on the streets is that he was a bouncer in a Manchester nightclub--there might well be a connection there; one does not know.

Since then, there has been yet another armed post office raid in Bolton. Following that, there was another attempted street assassination in Bolton. A man was gunned down while sitting in his car waiting outside a chip shop. Following that, there was yet another armed robbery in Salford in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Eccles (Miss Lestor). A constituent of mine working in a building society was threatened with a weapon. All that took place within a radius of five miles from where I live. I do not live in the inner city. A little further afield, only yesterday, when children were playing in the streets in the warm spring sunshine, there was yet another armed fracas in Liverpool.

Such crimes and their frequency demand action on guns. Therefore, I call on Ministers to consider several measures that I shall suggest this morning.

As legally held weapons easily fall into criminal hands, new gun controls are necessary. I call on the Minister to consider a ban on the keeping of firearms in domestic premises in urban communities. I am aware of the Minister's farming connections. I am not talking about shotguns kept in farmhouses. I emphasise that I am deliberately talking about domestic premises in urban areas.

I make a clear demand to the Minister that there should be stronger sentencing for even the illegal possession of firearms. Leaving aside the use of them, mere possession should attract exemplary sentences. I would also give

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powers to the courts to confiscate weapons used in crime, whomsoever they belong to. I see the Minister frown, so let me explain.

One of the guns that was stolen a couple of years ago--one of the eight that was eventually used as forensic evidence in a trial--was returned to its rightful owner. I raised that issue on the Floor of the House at the time. If the owner was not sufficiently responsible, and was careless enough to have his weapon stolen in the first place, and his weapon was used to cause the heinous crime of which I speak--the gunning down of a young man who was going about his lawful business as a security guard--that gun should be melted down. I should like the Minister to consider that.

I should also like to see the introduction of a national firearms index. I believe that some senior police officers consider that that is a reasonable route to take. A national index would be used much as the log book for a motor car, to track the movement of firearms that are legally sold and transferred.

When I raised the storage of firearms in domestic premises some time ago, I received an irate letter from a gun dealer in Bolton. He made several points to me during a long correspondence. I suppose that, with our experience of dealing with the public, Members of Parliament quickly learn about people. I felt that there was something not quite right with the opinions that that legal, licensed gun dealer expressed. He resisted any idea of guns being indexed and sold with a log. That dealer is now serving a fairly long stretch in one of Her Majesty's establishments, for illegally transferring guns into the criminal fraternity.

It is now time for strict psychological testing of applicants for any gun licence. In a recent incident in my local pub, a young man with a loaded revolver en route to his home from his shooting club irresponsibly brandished the weapon about among the pub customers. He was arrested. The matter is sub judice, as it has yet to come to court, but that incident alone convinces me that the present vetting system is inadequate. If people on the face of it are responsible and use guns for sporting purposes, we should make absolutely certain that they have the right psychological attitude to using what are now very powerful weapons.

I shall keep my speech brief. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) wants to make a speech from the Front Bench. I have made three or four sharp points. I have given the Minister what I hope were to him interesting examples of the cause of the problems. Therefore, I hope that he will offer some encouragement to people like me, who wish to reverse the current trend of gun crime.

1.9 pm

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