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Mr. Norris: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend because he makes an extremely important point. On 1994 prices, investment rose above £150 million only in the mid-1980s and now stands at somewhere around £1 billion a year in London Transport infrastructure alone, along with a heavy programme of investment in railway and road infrastructure. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to contrast that with the dismal record of previous Administrations. We need take no lessons from the Opposition on the amount that we have invested in transport infrastructure in London.
Air Service Agreement
13. Mr. Wilkinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will make a statement on progress in air service agreement talks between the United States of America and the United Kingdom. [30130]
Dr. Mawhinney: The UK and US Governments reached agreement on 5 June on a package of new opportunities for UK and US airlines. We have already started work on the next stage of negotiations with the aim of opening up further opportunities.
Mr. Wilkinson: May I tell my right hon. Friend how satisfactory it is that he was able to reach that agreement on 5 June? Will he make it clear to the House that he and Her Majesty's Government refuse to be browbeaten by Transport Commissioner Kinnock, who is attempting to bring European Court actions against nations that have rightly maintained their entitlement to negotiate independent national air service agreements with other countries?
Dr. Mawhinney: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Like him, we attach considerable importance to our bilateral negotiations with the United States over many years, which recently proved to be fruitful and on which we intend to build. I insisted at the last Transport Council meeting two weeks ago, before Commissioner Kinnock could carry forward his proposals, that the Council of Ministers' requirement dating back to 1993 should be carried out. It requires the Commission to undertake a study to demonstrate whether it can negotiate on behalf of member states and whether to do so would be advantageous to member states rather than to countries negotiating bilaterally. It also requires the Commission to establish common interest, which would be difficult given that the United Kingdom has 40 per cent. of transatlantic travel and Luxembourg has 0.02 per cent. I am sceptical about whether the Commission will be able to make speedy progress in that regard. In the meantime, I shall continue to defend and advance UK national interest in bilateral discussions with the United States.
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DUCHY OF LANCASTER
Citizens Charters
28. Mr. Harry Greenway: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what further charters, and in what areas, he is proposing; and if he will make a statement. [30146]
The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of Public Service and Science (Mr. John Horam): New charters for further and higher education in Northern Ireland will be published later this year, as well as revised charters for court users, people passing through customs points, and NHS patients in Wales. A revised charter for council tenants was published in June.
Mr. Greenway: May I ask for a charter for council tenants and all council tax payers so that they have protection against councils like Ealing council, which is Labour-controlled, as you will know, Madam Speaker? If tenants and council tax payers owe council tax, Ealing council sends them reminders and within a week or a month of their having paid, they receive summonses and repeat summonses. Somebody who came to my surgery last Friday had had 10 summonses for taxes that had already been paid, and that person was over 90.
Mr. Horam: I assure my hon. Friend that the new council tenants charter sets out clearly the rights of council tenants, and tenants in Ealing should appeal if they feel that they are being disadvantaged. On the general performance of Ealing council, the indicators published by the Audit Commission will have revealed the position all too clearly.
Mr. Henderson: The Minister will be aware that a number of charges have been made about charters being gimmicks. Is he aware that, by extending charters as he has announced this afternoon, he may further be accused of concentrating on gimmicks? Is he further aware that many people want a toughening of existing charters, for instance in the health service? Currently, no one appears on a waiting list until he or she meets a consultant. Would it not better reflect what is happening if the waiting list count were measured from the time that a person met his or her doctor? Given that the Duchy of Lancaster is providing short-term cover in Wales, will he introduce that system during the time that he is covering for the previous Secretary of State for Wales?
Mr. Horam: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman continued with the second half of his question because I thought for a moment that the Labour party was exercising yet another U-turn and backing off from its general support for charters. So far, it has been extremely helpful. I am encouraged by the toughness of the second part of the hon. Gentleman's remarks.
Science Education
29. Mr. Hawkins: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what plans he has further to extend scientific education (a) for schoolchildren and (b) for the population at large--correcting the Table Office's typographical error, Madam Speaker. [30147]
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. David Hunt): I am always willing to discuss a wide and varied agenda with my hon. Friend, but I do draw the line at wide and varied gender.
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The answer to the question of course is that we shall do whatever is necessary to capture the imagination of children and the population at large to the excitement of science, engineering and technology.Mr. Hawkins: I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. The Table Office had erroneously tried to transfer that question to the Secretary of State for Education, as it did with the later question from my hon. Friend the Member for Stamford and Spalding (Mr. Davies), which I think explains what happened there. I thank my right hon. Friend for his-- [Hon. Members:-- "Get on with it."]
Madam Speaker: Order. The Table Office does not transfer questions; Ministers do. The hon. Gentleman should not attack Officers of the House who do not have a platform to answer back.
Mr. Hawkins: I am grateful for your guidance, but may I thank my right hon. Friend for the support that he is giving to scientific education? My right hon. Friend knows that I have a strong commitment to that because it is crucial--and I am sure that he agrees--that we are able to compete internationally. Unless the schoolchildren of the future have a very good scientific education, we shall be handicapped in competing with the Germans, the Japanese and the Americans.
Mr. Hunt: I agree with my hon. Friend that that does revolve around competitiveness. That is why I was pleased, on 22 May, to publish, at the same time as the competitiveness White Paper, the technology foresight steering group report, which set out that we shall need to find the future scientists who will discover the cures for diseases to which there is as yet no solution or cure. They will have to find the motor vehicle of the future. Many exciting challenges lie ahead, and we must ensure that we are ready, willing and able to meet those challenges.
Mr. Battle: What a complacent response. Is the Minister aware that many 16-year-olds at school are turning their back on science, especially in England and Wales? Is he aware that degree applications for science subjects are down this year for this year's entrants--physics down 3 per cent., environmental sciences down 6 per cent., general engineering down 18 per cent. and electronic engineering down 74 per cent.? What will the Government actually do to sort out that science gap for 16 to 18-year-olds?
Would it not be timely to consider the model of the Scottish education system, for example, to introduce a broader curriculum for 16 to 18-year- olds to ensure that all youngsters throughout Britain have a better understanding of science and a chance to take science further?
Mr. Hunt: The hon. Gentleman ignores--I think that he acknowledged that indirectly--the fact that we have ensured that all children now study science up to the age of 16, under the national curriculum. As for 16 to 19 -year-olds, he will be aware of Sir Ron Dearing's review, which is currently taking place.
Civil Servants
30. Mr. Jenkin: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster how many civil servants the Government or their agencies now employ; and what was the equivalent figure in 1979. [30148]
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Mr. Horam: The number of civil servants is 516,100 today, and it was 735,400 in 1979--a reduction of 30 per cent.
Mr. Jenkin: May I congratulate my hon. Friend and the Government on the very substantial reduction in costs that that entails, but what is the next step for all the next steps agencies, which continue to employ a large number of people? Would it not be sensible, as they are market- tested, that, where they are successful, they are given the opportunity to transfer to the private sector and become businesses in their own right?
Mr. Tony Banks: Lucky they don't market-test you lot.
Mr. Horam: The question of privatisation is considered when a next steps agency is set up. We then, under the existing procedures, have a period of five years before that question can be considered again. None the less, I can assure my hon. Friend that that timetable will be adhered to, and that any question of privatisation for a next steps agency will be thoroughly examined.
Mr. Dalyell: May I ask a question of which I have given notice to the Department?
Mr. Foulkes: How did my hon. Friend know that he was going to be called?
Mr. Morgan: Tam Dalyell's charter.
Mr. Dalyell: I am sorry; this is a very precise question, which is worrying people in the Scottish Office. Is it quite proper that Mr. Gregor Mackay, an official of the Scottish Office, paid out of the public purse, should work in the office of one of the candidates for the leadership of a political party? Is there not some argument for having a code of conduct and making these things very precise?
Mr. Horam: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. Indeed, there is a great deal of point in having a code of conduct. There is, in fact, a code of conduct which makes it plain that people should not indulge in party political activities when they are paid from public funds. The gentleman about whom the hon. Gentleman is concerned is on leave at the moment.
Science Education
31. Mr. Quentin Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what plans he has to encourage more students to take science subjects at university and college. [30149]
Mr. David Hunt: We support initiatives to bring real life scientific challenges to the classroom.
Mr. Davies: Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that so many science graduates choose a career outside science and technology so that their talents and education are lost both to the advancement of knowledge and to the research and development effort, on which ultimately so much of our economic future depends? Do the Government have any specific ideas on how we can enhance the status and rewards and, therefore, the attraction of a career in science and technology?
Mr. Hunt: I agree with my hon. Friend. We always seek to promote better career opportunities for scientists, engineers and technologists. I hope that everyone in the
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House will have the opportunity to visit the women in science exhibition in the Upper Waiting Hall, which my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary, Office of Public Service and Science opened this morning, when he was able to announce that the Government are doubling their financial contribution towards the Dorothy Hodgkin fellowships.Duchy Benevolent Fund
32. Mr. Pike: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what financial resources will be available in the Duchy benevolent fund for distribution during the current year. [30151]
Mr. David Hunt: Approximately £215,000.
Mr. Pike: Does the Chancellor recognise that part of the money that is left by people who are intestate ultimately goes to the benevolent fund and part of it is used for running the magistracy in the county? Would it not be more appropriate for all the money to be used by the benevolent fund? As I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, there are many good purposes to which the money can be put.
Mr. Hunt: I am not a trustee of the Duchy benevolent fund, but I know that the trustees donate all the income which is received from investments. Last year 88 per cent. of the money donated went to charitable causes in the Duchy. I recall that the hon. Gentleman wrote to me in April about help for the Burnley Alliance silver band. I am delighted to say that a grant of £800 was made to the junior section of the band for a purchase of a new flugelhorn. I am delighted on this occasion to blow the hon. Gentleman's trumpet for him.
Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman: May I ask my right hon. Friend to relay to those who run the Duchy benevolent fund the thanks of many thousands of people for the great care and attention to detail which they give to every application that is made to that excellent fund, which is special for the people of Lancashire?
Mr. Hunt: I am delighted to hear the authentic voice of Lancashire. I shall convey to all those involved the praise of my hon. Friend.
Science Week 1996
33. Mr. Evennett: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what plans he has to encourage further involvement from broadcasters and the media in Science Week 1996. [30153]
Mr. David Hunt: I was delighted with the outstanding coverage of Science, Engineering and Technology Week 1995 and I am determined that the 1996 week should be even bigger and better.
Mr. Evennett: I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Does he agree that science is vital to our national interest and is an exciting subject in itself? Will he continue to press the media, particularly the BBC, to put out more programmes on science and technology and to make them more exciting, fun and interesting for the general public?
Mr. Hunt: Yes. I recently had a meeting with the BBC at which I met John Birt and Alan Yentob, both of whom
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were delighted with the success of the Science, Engineering and Technology Week 1995. They have already promised their full support for the 1996 week. I take the opportunity to congratulate "Tomorrow's World" on its 30th anniversary last month. It does a great deal to promote public understanding of science, engineering and technology.Mr. Skinner: I wonder how the right hon. Gentleman is at doing arithmetic. If somebody in the ballot tomorrow gets 190 votes and another gets 70, can he tell us whether the one who gets 190 votes will stand his ground and keep his job?
Mr. Hunt: If I were to answer that mathematical hypothetical question, I would say quite clearly to the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will have a decisive victory tomorrow. As for the other implication behind the hon. Gentleman's question, progress in arithmetic under this Government has improved considerably, and I know that, as a result of the past 10 years, even the hon. Gentleman can do joined- up handwriting.
Sir Giles Shaw: Will my right hon. Friend congratulate those involved in the Science, Engineering and Technology Week? Looking forward to next year, will he assure the House that contributions to that event by local firms are as essential as those made by the media? What steps is he taking to develop further links with chambers of commerce so that they can plug in and make SET Week even more successful than it has been before?
Mr. Hunt: I agree with my hon. Friend. If we are to make a great success of Science, Engineering and Technology Week 1996, we must involve small and medium-sized enterprises. In view of my hon. Friend's intervention, I shall consider how best to do that. I shall seek out chambers of commerce, training and enterprise councils and, through business links, all firms, so that they can play a positive part in SET 1996.
Citizens Charters
34. Mr. John Evans: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what plans he has to introduce further citizens charters during 1995; and if he will make a statement. [30154]
Mr. Horam: A number of new and revised charters have been issued this year. We are also encouraging the production of local charters. Thousands of organisations, including surgeries, hospitals and police forces, have already produced their own charters which reflect the needs of the local user.
Mr. Evans: Can the Minister confirm that citizens charters were originally introduced to give the voters more power over politicians and bureaucrats? Does he recognise that the unseemly battle taking place among 329 Conservative Members of Parliament to elect the next Prime Minister is a negation of all those charters' principles? Why does he not recognise that the people do not want any more charters but a general election now?
Mr. Horam: I am afraid that there are no charters that apply to activities inside the House; perhaps there should be.
Mr. Fabricant: If people do not recognise that charters are achieving something, why is it that the French,
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Germans and Americans are starting to copy our system? Why is it that the only people who knock the system are the Opposition? They do so only because they did not think of it first.Mr. Horam: My hon. Friend makes a valid point. One of the first things that President Chirac did on taking office was to introduce a citizens charter. Well done, President Chirac.
Mr. Winnick: Is not there a case for introducing charters for political and personal courage? If so, does the Minister agree that the ex- Secretary of State for Wales would receive that charter for having the guts to resign from the Cabinet in order to stand for the current leadership ballot? The President of the Board of Trade and the Employment Secretary, though they are desperate for the job at No. 10, simply do not have the guts to do what the right hon. Gentleman did.
Mr. Horam: I doubt whether that will influence many votes in that particular election.
35. Mr. Mark Robinson: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster by what mechanisms the Government measure the success of the citizens charters. [30155]
Mr. Robinson: I thank my right hon. Friend for his splendid answer. Does he agree that one measure of success is the fact that there are more than 2,000 nominations for the charter mark currently in the pipeline, and which he is considering, supported by more than 4,000 individuals?
Mr. Hunt: Yes. We were expecting 2,000 nominations, so to achieve double that number has been a great success, bearing in mind the fact that in 1992, 296 organisations were nominated; in 1993, 441 and in 1994, 523.
Mr. Barnes: There is a charter that could be measured easily, and which would follow the greatest charter to be introduced, the initial set of charters introduced by the Chartists to extend the franchise. Why can we not have such a charter to deal with the current franchise, because between 3 million and 4 million names are missing from the electoral register? If we put that right there would be an easy way to measure our success, because the more people on the electoral register, the more that register would be judged a success by that particular charter.
Mr. Hunt: That is why we strongly support all campaigns to urge people to register for voting and exercise that vote.
As my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary said, many other countries across the world are following the Prime Minister's initiative of introducing a citizens charter. In May I was discussing this initiative with Vice-President Gore, who has already hailed it as an innovative idea.
Dr. Spink: Does my right hon. Friend accept that one of the measures of success of the charters is national
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health service waiting times? Does he accept that, since the introduction of the patients charter in 1991, those waiting times have been dramatically reduced? Before he answers, will he bear it in mind that his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has just joined him on the Front Bench?Mr. Hunt: I commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and, indeed, the activities of the Welsh Office in Wales, in constantly taking forward the initiatives under the patients charter. I am delighted that, since the publication of the patients charter, there has been a dramatic reduction in NHS waiting times.
36. Mr. Foulkes: To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster how many charters currently exist; and what plans he has to extend them into other areas. [30156]
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Mr. Horam: There are currently 40 charters. New and revised charters are being introduced during the course of this year, and also many local charters.
Mr. Foulkes: Does not the Minister realise that when I was sitting, fuming, in a traffic jam the other day I realised that by far the greatest of the Prime Minister's achievements was not the charters, but the cones hotline? How much has the cones hotline cost? How many phone calls have there been to it? What great, new initiative will replace, challenge and equal the cones hotline if the Prime Minister is returned in the ballot tomorrow?
Mr. Horam: In tune with his forceful presentation of the subject, the hon. Gentleman should take a positive view of charters, not carp on about the minor, negative aspects.
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