House of Commons Hansard Debates for 5 Jul 1995

Mr. Hurd: I think that it will be. We support close co-operation between the UN and the IPU. A resolution

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has been submitted by Senegal for the next session and we are looking to see whether it is sensible from our point of view.

Mr. Rathbone: First, I add my own compliments to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, particularly on his honesty; I say that as the only Member of the House, I believe, to have bought a second-hand car from him. What is Her Majesty's Government's policy on the future membership of the UN Security Council, and will that be pursued through IPU circles?

Mr. Hurd: The answer to the latter part of my hon. Friend's question is yes.

I remember the car to which my hon. Friend referred: I believe that it was an open-roof Sunbeam Rapier. It had to be taken to Long Island for repairs rather too often in its life, but I am glad that it served my hon. Friend well.

Departmental Commercial Services

13. Mrs. Angela Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of whether his Department's commercial services could be geared more towards small and medium-sized enterprises. [30907]

Mr. Baldry: The chargeable services provided by our overseas posts are specifically targeted at small and medium-sized companies. They are designed to help those companies export successfully.

Mrs. Knight: As small companies require special assistance when exporting, can my hon. Friend tell the House what steps his Department is taking to advertise its services through the relevant trade associations and business links in Britain?

Mr. Baldry: We provide small businesses with information and advice that it would be difficult for them to obtain elsewhere. At least 60 per cent. of companies which take part in outward missions are small and medium -sized enterprises. The business links network will have 70 export development counsellors to offer advice, smaller companies will receive export vouchers which they can exchange for export services and the network of 200 business links will help to raise awareness still further, so much has been done to help small and medium-sized businesses export.

Mr. Pike: Can the Minister assure the House that in dealing with the newly emerging democracies in eastern Europe we take into account not only the advantages for Britain, but also what we can do to help to stabilise those countries' economies and democracies, which is crucial if they are not to move backwards?

Mr. Baldry: I think that British business appreciates that it is important to establish long-term partnerships in every emerging market. It is in the interests of British business as well as of the countries concerned to ensure that there is maximum stability in order to make those long-term partnerships successful and profitable.

Mr. Thomason: Does my hon. Friend agree that the use of the know-how fund in appropriate countries may assist small and medium-sized companies in their export operations and that it is important to use the know-how

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fund not only for design and development but also for the full implementation of schemes if we are to see them develop properly?

Mr. Baldry: The know-how fund has been, and continues to be, extremely successful. I know of no scheme under the know-how fund that has been criticised. The fund has managed to achieve a range of projects and schemes throughout eastern Europe and it is now being copied by many other countries who wish that they had thought of it before we did.

Council of Europe

14. Mr. Jim Marshall: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has had regarding the future composition of the Council of Europe. [30908]

Mr. David Davis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary most recently discussed the future composition of the Council of Europe on 15 February 1995 in London with Mr. Tarschys, the Secretary-General.

Mr. Marshall: I thank the Minister for that answer, but I take a slightly different approach to the question. Is the Minister aware that the British parliamentary delegation to the Assembly of the Council of Europe is the same delegation as attends the Assembly of the Western European Union? In view of the heavy workload of the Council of Europe and the increasing workload and importance of the Assembly of the Western European Union, will the Government give some attention to either splitting the British parliamentary delegation or having two separate and distinct delegations to those parliamentary assemblies?

Mr. Davis: I know that the hon. Gentleman has put a great deal of work into both those organisations, as well as into the Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee of the Council of Europe and the Technical Aerospace Committee of the WEU. I have not considered the matter and I do not hold out any great hopes to the hon. Gentleman at this point, but I will examine his proposals.

Mr. David Atkinson: Now that the Council of Europe has accepted that the three Caucasian states are European, is my hon. Friend disturbed by today's reports that the elections currently taking place in Armenia may not prove to be free and fair? Is the Minister observing those elections and will he continue to urge restraint on both Armenia and Azerbaijan not to go to war again on Nagorny Karabakh if they are really serious about wanting to join the Council of Europe?

Mr. Davis: There are international observers attending the elections. However, the countries' admission to the Council of Europe will fall under article 3 of the Council, which means that they must meet the various freedom and democracy requirements.

UN Conflict Prevention Activities

15. Mr. Home Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what consideration he has given to improving Britain's contribution to United Nations conflict prevention activities, with particular reference to the rapid reaction force in Bosnia. [30909]

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Mr. Hurd: We have taken the lead in trying to strengthen the United Nations in preventive diplomacy and conflict prevention. Last September, I made some specific proposals for the UN to give more effective help to regional preventive diplomacy in Africa, and in 1993, with the French, outlined proposals to help enhance UN capability in that respect. We strongly support UN work to prevent conflict in Macedonia and Burundi.

Where preventive diplomacy has failed, we are also working to improve UN response to conflict. Britons are serving in six UN peacekeeping operations. We have made proposals for improving the planning and management of those operations and have seconded British experts to New York to help implement them.

In Bosnia, as the hon. Gentleman knows, we have played a leading role in deploying additional troops to form the rapid reaction force to which he refers. The force will increase the effectiveness of UNPROFOR in its peacekeeping activities. It is not there to impose a solution. The priority remains to bring the parties to a negotiated settlement.

Mr. Home Robertson: I welcome the deployment of a stronger United Nations force to Bosnia, and particularly the participation of rapid reaction units from Britain. As the situation in Sarajevo is worse than ever, with the three-year siege continuing, the return to indiscriminate shelling and sniping and the closure of the air bridge and all road access, will the Foreign Secretary confirm that the Government and other members of the United Nations intend that the new rapid reaction force should be able to protect humanitarian aid convoys to the city of Sarajevo and other isolated communities in Bosnia?

Mr. Hurd: The hon. Gentleman does not exaggerate the seriousness of the conflict. I received a sombre report this morning from Mr. Carl Bildt, the new European negotiator, who is working very hard on the military agenda, to make it possible for UNPROFOR to function effectively on the ground with the minimum of consent from all concerned, including the Bosnian Serbs, and on the contact group agenda towards a negotiated settlement.

The arrival of new units and the reinforcement of units in the UN force will make it somewhat easier for UN commanders to take the action to which the hon. Gentleman refers. However, the hon. Gentleman recognises that they do not transform the strategic position; they increase the choices in a tactical situation for the UN command.

Sir Patrick Cormack: May I thank my right hon. Friend for all he personally has done to try and bring peace to that troubled part of the world? Does he agree, however, that it is important that President Milosevic should use his best endeavours to persuade the Bosnian Serbs to lift the siege of Sarajevo? Is he confident that President Milosevic is doing all that he can?

Mr. Hurd: Yes. I believe that President Milosevic realised some time ago that the only future for his country, Serbia, lies in a negotiated peace and that he must use what influences are at his disposal to bring the Bosnian Serbs to the same conclusion. Neither he nor we nor anyone else has yet succeeded in that, but it is in his interests and intentions to continue.

Mr. Robin Cook: The Foreign Secretary will be aware that we welcome the reassurances that no undertakings

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were given to the Bosnian Serbs in return for the release of the hostages? Does he therefore share our concern at the repeated failure of the UN to respond to the escalating breaches of the UN mandate by the Bosnian Serbs? Can he confirm that only one sixth of the aid required is getting through to Sarajevo and that cases of starvation are now being reported from Bihac? Does he agree that, having shown the necessary resolve to secure the release of the hostages, the UN must show same resolve to protect and feed civilians in towns that the UN itself has declared safe areas?

Mr. Hurd: Small amounts of aid are getting through to Sarajevo and the enclaves, but they are too small. The hon. Gentleman is perfectly right that the humanitarian position has deteriorated. The choices before the UN commanders are not enviable. They now have a greater range of troops and equipment, which will increase quite substantially during the coming month, but it does not transform the basic position: they have to judge--and we cannot do so on their behalf--what is possible without making the position worse. I hope and believe that they will able to make further progress, partly as a result of Mr. Bildt's efforts, which were extremely vigorous, and partly through the reinforcements that they have received.

Mr. Jenkin: I join the tributes already paid to my right hon. Friend, particularly for his unfailing courtesy towards those who have not always sought to make life easier for him.

Is there not a lesson to be drawn from the involvement in Bosnia--that whatever contribution we make to the UN, these operations would be easier if they were premised on the unequivocal support of all the major NATO powers before we embarked on them?

Mr. Hurd: I believe that it is right that NATO should be involved to the extent that it is involved in the enforcement of sanctions and in providing the possibility of air strikes. I have always been anxious--I think that the House has appreciated this--that we should not, in Bosnia or Yugoslavia, build up a situation in which the NATO powers are on one side and the Russians on the other. That would be a bad outlook. We have avoided it with the contact group, which includes Russia.

If, however, my hon. Friend is saying that there needs to be absolute solidarity between the main western allies, all the members of the European Union and all the members of NATO, he is entirely right. At the moment, the policy that the international community--to use the shorthand phrase--is pursuing in Bosnia has that solid support.

Intergovernmental Conference

16. Mr. Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement about Her Majesty's Government's priorities for the 1996 intergovernmental conference of the European Union. [30910]

Mr. Hurd: My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister set out our priorities for the IGC at Leiden last September and in this House on 1 March. As the Minister of State said earlier, we want a European Union which is open, flexible, free trading, efficient and responsive to popular concerns.

Mr. Berry: I note that the Secretary of State did not say that it is a Government priority to secure measures to tackle

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unemployment in Europe. With 20 million people unemployed in Europe, does he not feel that now is the time for more serious action to deal with that rather than simply abolishing the Department of Employment? What measures will the right hon. Gentleman seek to put forward at the IGC to tackle unemployment, and what effect will they have?

Mr. Hurd: There was a good discussion on jobs at the summit in Cannes a week ago. President Chirac put them at the top of the list for the summit. What clearly emerged from the discussion was the fact that jobs are created through free trade--one of the objectives that I have just mentioned--through deregulation, and through flexible labour markets. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was in a strong position because we are in the lead on all those matters.

Sir Peter Hordern: In the forthcoming discussions about the IGC, will my right hon. Friend ensure that the agenda for it comprises the extension of the European Union to take in the Visegrad countries and the necessary reform of the common agricultural policy? Beyond that, will he do his best, from whatever position he occupies, to see that the IGC is a low- key affair? We do not want another Maastricht treaty, however skilfully and well my right hon. Friend managed to defeat the arguments of the Euro- sceptics on both sides of the House.

Mr. Hurd: I entirely share my right hon. Friend's last wish and I think that we can avoid that. What is taking shape in the reflections group, which my hon. Friend the Member for Boothferry (Mr. Davis) attends, is not a huge further radicalisation of the European Union or a huge new concept that will pull up everything by the roots and start something entirely afresh. It is, however, a little more than a 3,000-mile service-- for the reason that my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Sir P. Hordern) gives.

We have to look ahead to the expansion eastwards, and to some extent southwards--to Cyprus and Malta--of the European Union. One aspect that we have to consider to that end is the changes that will be needed in the common agricultural policy and in the structural funds. No one in their right mind would suppose that we could expand eastwards, which is certainly necessary, while conserving the CAP in its present form as the whole thing would go bust.

Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones: On behalf of my party I, too, pay tribute to the Foreign Secretary for the work that he has carried out during his period of office and wish him a happy retirement.

In the context of the IGC and the future of the European institutions, will the Government be pushing for a review or appraisal of the work of the Committee of the Regions, which was set up under Maastricht, to look at the effectiveness of that committee as it is currently constituted, and to see whether the United Kingdom Government can make the work of the representatives on it much more effective by giving them better support?

Mr. Hurd: That illustrates the difficulties of the exercise. The committee has only just started its work. It is far too soon in practice to review how it is going. High hopes are placed on it in Wales, Catalonia and other places, but it is too soon to make an assessment. That is one of the reasons why 1996, as in the treaty, for the review conference is too soon. However, we have to make

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the best of the treaty. No doubt the Committee of the Regions will be reviewed, but I am sure that it is too soon to reach a conclusion.

Sir Giles Shaw: Does my right hon. Friend agree that he is right to concentrate on the thematic approach to the conference and not to get into too much detail about the precise agenda and the exact stance that we might wish to take? Does he further agree, as a diplomat who has rendered so much distinguished service to this country, that we should bear in mind that although it was once said that a week was a long time in politics, a day is a pretty long time too?

Mr. Hurd: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am sure that in the coming months the House will seize many opportunities to talk about these issues and to prise out of the Government our approach, and we shall be forthcoming in response.

It is worth repeating the timetable. The reflections group, on which my hon. Friend the Member for Boothferry sits, has just begun its work. The intergovernmental conference will not start, I believe, until the spring--I do not think that the Italians will be in a rush to start it--and it is likely to last a considerable time, so there will be plenty of time for reflection and debate.

Ms Quin: The Government are being urged by some of their friends to bring about a substantial return of powers from the European Union to national Governments during the process that the Foreign Secretary has outlined. Given the right hon. Gentleman's extensive contacts with his European counterparts over the years, does he think that such a substantial repatriation of powers is either possible or desirable?

Mr. Hurd: We are still looking at this. There is quite an appetite for greater clarity and a worry about what in the jargon is called creeping competence--that gradually without changes in the treaty the borderline will slide. That is a worry which goes beyond this country. However, we are still examining exactly what proposals might be sensible.

Middle East

18. Mr. Cyril D. Townsend: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the middle east peace process. [30912]

Mr. Douglas Hogg: This is probably the last Foreign Office question that I shall have the privilege of answering in the presence of my right hon. Friend the present Foreign Secretary, with whom I have had the privilege of working for seven years at both the Home Office and the Foreign Office. It has been a great privilege and I much regret that my right hon. Friend will no longer be representing Britain's interests abroad. I know that that

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is the view of my ministerial colleagues, too, and I believe it to be the view also of the service that my right hon. Friend has led with such distinction for so long.

In answer to the main question, I refer my hon. Friend to the answer that my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, South (Mr. Marshall).

Mr. Townsend: First, I acknowledge the rapid rapport that my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State and my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary have been able to strike up with Arab leaders during their time at the Foreign Office. Does my right hon. and learned Friend recall, however, that the basis of the middle east peace process was supposed to be land for peace? Does he agree that dividing the west bank into zones A, B and C is hardly likely to help the peace process? Is it not time that he told the Israeli Government, in his last few moments, perhaps, that this is a good moment to withdraw altogether from the occupied territory?

Mr. Hogg: I think that on these occasions one should not be more royalist than the King. I also believe that we need strongly to support the negotiations that are afoot. I hope that it will be possible for the Israelis and Palestinians to meet their newest deadline of 25 July for a conclusion to the present negotiations.

Mr. Janner: May I take the same opportunity to thank the Foreign Secretary for many courtesies over many years? He has been a friend and sparring partner for nearly a lifetime. If we have to have a Tory Foreign Secretary, I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman is leaving his post.

At the same time, I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I am sure that he will have the support of almost all Opposition Members for the Government's efforts to make constructive approaches to both sides to help the peace process forward rather than trying to find ways to destroy good will.

Mr. Hogg: I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman. I am glad that this Question Time has ended on such a harmonious note.

Mr. Tredinnick: I, too, wish my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary well and I thank him for his support of the British Atlantic Group of Young Politicians and the Future of Europe Trust over the past five years.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister confirm that the Israelis are now dealing with Mr. Arafat, which is a remarkable achievement? It must be made clear to the Israelis that they will never have peace unless they give up a good many of their settlements in the area known as Palestine.

Mr. Hogg: It is clearly a good thing that the Israeli Government are dealing directly with Mr. Arafat and have been doing so for many months. That is a tribute to Mr. Arafat for his courage and to Prime Minister Rabin for his.

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