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Will the Minister confirm something to which one of his hon. Friends alluded today--that the Government are prepared to allow high-level foreign nuclear waste to be stored in the United Kingdom? Low-level nuclear waste was comprehensively discussed in the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Attercliffe. His anxiety and that of his constituents about the possibility of disposal to landfill are entirely understandable. I trust that the Minister will reply to the pertinent questions that my hon. Friend posed, and those that were asked by myself and my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South. As the debate has shown, although we all have good reason to celebrate the victory of public pressure and good sense over landfill of low-level nuclear waste, major worries remain about the transport and safe disposal of a huge volume of highly dangerous and toxic nuclear waste.12.47 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. James Clappison): I am glad to have the opportunity to wind up a debate on an important and interesting subject, and to have the opportunity to respond to the arguments of the hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts). I am also glad to have had the opportunity to listen to the constructive and realistic points of view that were expressed by my hon. Friends the Members for Shoreham (Mr. Stephen) and for Castle Point (Dr. Spink) in their speeches.
Dr. Spink: It is extremely remiss of us that none of us have welcomed this most noble and honourable Minister to his new position.
Mr. Stephen: May I associate myself with those remarks?
Mr. Clappison: I am overcome by the kindness that has suddenly been showered on me from all directions.
As the House has heard, last week the Government published a White Paper containing the final conclusions of its review of radioactive waste management policy. The review was announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment in May 1994, and preliminary conclusions were published in a consultation paper in August 1994, to which the hon. Member for Attercliffe has referred at length. The final conclusions have been reached in the light of the responses that were received.
The purpose of the review was to examine policy in the light of changes since the Government's national strategy on radioactive waste management was published in 1984. The primary aim throughout has been to ensure that radioactive waste, irrespective of whether it is produced by public sector or private sector operations, is properly managed, and to ensure that people and the environment are not exposed to unacceptable risks now or in future. Those are the underlying principles.
As the House has heard, there are a number of categories of radioactive waste ranging from very low-level waste--including that to which the hon. Gentleman referred--from research or medicine, to
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high-level waste from the reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel. The waste has the potential to cause harm and needs to be managed carefully.The Government are committed to maintaining and developing a policy which ensures that radioactive wastes are not created unnecessarily; that such wastes as are created are managed and treated safely and appropriately; and that they are then safely disposed of at appropriate times and in appropriate ways. The Government will do that by means of a regulatory framework which ensures that producers and owners of radioactive waste fully meet their responsibilities and develop appropriate waste management strategies.
The Environment Bill, which is currently before Parliament, contains provisions that will streamline the handling of applications to dispose of radioactive wastes for nuclear licensed sites in England and Wales by making the new Environment Agency the sole authoriser, with the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Welsh Office as statutory consultees. The White Paper also says that developers of major projects may, if they wish, submit early applications for disposal authorisations and the regulators will then be able to decide on them before major commitments of money and effort have been made.
The review has confirmed the Government's commitment to disposal rather than indefinite storage of radioactive waste as the best means of meeting our commitments to future generations and therefore contributing to sustainable development. In the case of high-level waste, which British Nuclear Fuels plc is converting from liquid into glass, the waste must be stored for at least 50 years to allow for the short-lived radionuclides to decay and heat generation to reduce. However, after that the Government favour disposal to geological formations on land as the best option for the long term. We have said that we will put in hand the development of a research strategy to help us produce a statement of future intent, setting out the decisions to be taken and the milestones to be achieved.
In the case of intermediate-level waste, the Government consider it appropriate that Nirex should continue with its programme to identify a suitable site for a deep disposal facility. The Government have decided that no advantage would be gained from delaying the development of the repository itself and that, once a suitable site has been found, it should be constructed as soon as reasonably practicable. The precise timetable will depend on the granting of planning consent and compliance with regulatory requirements, including the establishment of a sound safety case. The Government have already promised to hold a full public inquiry into an application for the repository.
Disposal routes are already available for low-level waste which, depending on its concentration and level of activity, may go to BNFL's shallow disposal facility at Drigg in Cumbria or for "controlled burial" at suitable landfill sites.
I shall deal now with the points raised by the hon. Member for Attercliffe. A large number of members of the public have expressed concern about controlled burial. That form of disposal has been used for many years by non-nuclear industries which process raw materials containing natural radioactivity, and by major hospitals and universities for their relatively more active waste streams. The hon. Gentleman will be familiar with the
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disposals by hospitals in Sheffield to the tip at Beighton, to which he referred. That method has also been used by BNFL for waste from its uranium enrichment and fuel fabrication plants and, at its Sellafield site, for lightly contaminated excavation spoil. A site usually receives waste for controlled burial from no more than one or two sources. In considering an application for controlled burial, the regulators assess not only the type and activity of the waste but the containment characteristics of the site to which it is to be sent. If an authorisation is granted, the regulators also arrange for leachate from the sites to be monitored and for the results to be published.It was proposed in the preliminary conclusions of the review that there would be an advantage in encouraging waste producers to make greater use of controlled burial in order to relieve needless pressure on the disposal capacity of BNFL's disposal facility at Drigg in Cumbria. Contrary to reports made at the time, that would not require new legislation; nor would it involve deregulation of the nuclear industry, as the route is already open to it and disposals would continue to be strictly controlled by the regulators. That is a very important point and the hon. Gentleman referred to it. There is a very tight system of regulation in place.
Although the proposal was supported by the Radioactive Waste Management Advisory Committee and the National Radiological Protection Board, the Government have recognised the genuine anxieties that their proposal has aroused among local residents and, for that reason, they have decided not to encourage greater use of controlled burial by the nuclear industry. Nevertheless, there are sound economic and radiological grounds for controlled burial and the Government believe that it should continue to be available as a disposal route, particularly for "small users"--such as hospitals, universities, research laboratories and non-nuclear
industries--subject to the agreement of the site operators and to the necessary regulatory requirements being met.
I shall now deal in more detail with the points raised by the hon. Member for Attercliffe. He recognised and noted very fairly the Government's response in the White Paper following the consultations that have gone on since last August. The hon. Gentleman has clearly been involved in making representations and in the discussions that have taken place. The issues have been ventilated, and the hon. Gentleman will know from reading the White Paper that, while the Government recognise that nuclear waste can be disposed of safely in that type of landfill operation, they have made it clear that they are responding to public anxieties and the sorts of views expressed by the hon. Gentleman and are not encouraging the nuclear industry to use that disposal method. That point is plainly on the face of the White Paper.
The White Paper contains positive proposals for inviting the environment agencies to offer suggestions for making more transparent the information about which landfill sites receive such waste and for issuing formal guidance to the agencies about the need to consult local authorities about authorisations for controlled burial. The Government have no proposals to introduce legislation which would force private operators or local authority waste disposal companies to accept radioactive waste. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be reassured by the White Paper on that point.
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The White Paper proposes a policy of national self-sufficiency in dealing with radioactive waste. TheGovernment believe that countries which are sophisticated enough to have a nuclear industry should also be able to develop their own waste facilities and that accepting their waste would reduce the incentive for them to develop facilities of their own. On the other hand, countries should not be precluded from taking advantage of the non-nuclear uses of radioactivity, such as medical diagnosis and treatment, simply because they do not have the resources to develop waste facilities. Equally, there may be sound technical reasons why waste should be imported for treatment, provided that there is no environmental detriment to the importing country. Certain exceptions will therefore be allowed.Consistent with their policy of self-sufficiency is the Government's requirement that BNFL should exercise its
return-of-waste clauses in contracts with foreign customers for the reprocessing of spent fuel. The Government have accepted that that policy can be implemented by waste substitution arrangements which ensure broad environmental neutrality for the United Kingdom, but they consider it prudent that they do not become irrevocably committed to waste substitution in the absence of appropriate disposal arrangements within the United Kingdom.
In agreeing equivalence between categories of waste, some additional high- level waste should also be returned over and above that calculated on radiological grounds alone in order to account for some minor non- radiological environmental consequences of substitution. Substitution does not mean that the United Kingdom will become a "nuclear dustbin", as some have alleged--far from it. The Government are adopting a properly cautious approach to ensure that there will be no environmental or radiological detriment to this country.
The hon. Member for Nottingham, South (Mr. Simpson) raised the question of transport. I apologise for dealing with it only briefly, but time is pressing. A strict regime is in place. Responsibility for policy concerning the safe transport of radioactive materials, including waste, is a matter for my right hon Friend the Secretary of State for Transport.
The movement of waste is governed by regulations recommended by the International Atomic Energy Agency. The purpose of the IAEA regulations is to ensure that the packaging for transport should adequately protect transport workers and the public under all foreseeable circumstances, including the occurrence of a severe accident. Rather than requiring the use of special vehicles or special routes, the regulations ensure that appropriate safety is built into the design of the package in which the radioactive material is carried.
The regulations specify design performance standards which are independent of the means of transport. Where the radioactivity to be contained exceeds specified levels, the standards include tests for demonstrating the ability of the container to withstand damage from involvement in a severe accident without any significant release of its contents or an increase in external radiation.
A national scheme, called the nuclear industry road emergency response plan, has been put in place to provide contingency arrangements in the event of a road accident involving radioactive materials. Its participants include a number of important publicly recognised organisations such as the Ministry of Defence, Nuclear Electric,
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Rolls-Royce and Associates and Scottish Nuclear. Those organisations have agreed to dispatch qualified health physicists from the nearest organisation to deal immediately with any incident. I shall write to the hon. Member for Nottingham, South setting out the details. I shall also write to the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Ms Ruddock) who raised many detailed points. It is a serious subject that involves long-range planning--Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Janet Fookes): Order. We must move on to the next topic.
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Foetal Pain
1 pm
Mr. David Alton (Liverpool, Mossley Hill): Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for enabling me to raise this issue in the House today. I also thank Madam Speaker and the Minister, who is in his place. I draw his attention to the all-party early-day motion 1380 tabled today by myself, the right Member for Selby (Mr. Alison) and the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours), who is in his place. It draws attention to the recommendation of Dr. Maria Fitzgerald in a report commissioned by the Department of Health that
"the effects of trauma of any kind to the developing nervous system should be minimised as far as possible by whatever means are available."
The Minister should be congratulated on his Department's response to date on the issue of foetal pain. Let me explain the background. In 1988, the Department of Health commissioned a report from Dr. Fitzgerald, of the department of anatomy and developmental biology at University college, London--to whom I have just referred--on the evidence for foetal pain.
In 1994, a team led by Professor Fisk of the centre for foetal care at Queen Charlotte and Chelsea hospital, published pioneering work on
"the level of response in the unborn to potentially painful procedure; intrauterine needling".
Its research concluded:
"The human foetus feels pain in utero and may benefit from anaesthetic or analgesia for invasive procedures."
In the light of that research, Dr. Fitzgerald updated her report, and, in response to a question from the right hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Mr. Patten)--who I am pleased to see in his place and to whom I am grateful for his encouragement and support in promoting this cause in the House--the Department lodged a copy of its findings in the Library of the House.
Dr. Fitzgerald finally concluded:
"It cannot be denied that the foetal nervous system mounts clear protective responses to tissue injury and this cannot be ignored . . . If a foetus or a pre-term infant is to survive and mature into an adult it is essential to consider this issue. The effects of trauma of any kind on the developing nervous system should be minimised as far as possible by whatever means are available."
Today's debate is in response to that report. I should stress immediately that the debate is about foetal pain, and not about the Abortion Act 1967. My position on that legislation is perfectly clear, and I have never tried to hide it. However, there are a hundred and one other intra-uterine operations which can cause pain to the foetus.
Surely no one in the House would not wish to combat pain and suffering wherever they occur. As a parent, I have watched my own children on the ultrascan. For many of us, that is an increasingly common introduction to the wonders of the developing human being. I saw one of my sons at nine weeks' gestation, and I saw my daughter at 18 weeks' gestation. By that stage, the child is about a foot in length and pumping 50 pints of blood a day. Every single one of its organs is in place. The child is sentient, and responds to light and sound. It is most extraordinary that, with the aid of science, we can now see those marvellous developments in human characteristics.
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There is no difference between a child at that stage in its development and any person in the Chamber, other than in terms of size and weight.Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington): The hon. Gentleman will know that I gave my maiden speech on this subject. It is an extremely important issue. Does he recall the film "The Silent Scream", which was produced seven or eight years ago, and was never given the coverage that it deserved? It proved quite conclusively that everyone in Britain and throughout the world should be considering that it is proven beyond doubt that the foetus feels pain, and something should be done to protect it from that pain.
Mr. Alton: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. The film "The Silent Scream", and others like it, are subject almost to a conspiracy of silence. I cannot understand why it was never shown on our national television network, especially when one considers some of the programmes that are broadcast. We see every medical procedure known to mankind, so it is extraordinary that such a programme has not been given a wider audience.
I hope that, as a result of today's debate, others may take the time to search out that film and see it, but unfortunately--this corroborates what the hon. Gentleman has just said--there are those who attempt to sweep under the carpet the facts about foetal pain. That may explain why, despite the existence of evidence of foetal pain since the 1960s, we have statute law protecting foetal, larval or embryonic animals from any scientific procedure likely to cause pain, but none to protect the human foetus in the womb.
It seems extraordinary to me that, although some people and hon. Members find it credible that animal foetuses can feel pain, others balk at the notion that the human foetus also feels pain. I refer the House to the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986, for which most of us voted. It states:
"Subject to the provisions of this section, `a protected animal' for the purposes of this Act means any living vertebrate other than man."
It continues:
"Subject to the provisions of this section, `a regulated procedure' for the purposes of this Act means any experimental or other scientific applied to a protected animal which may have the effect of causing that animal pain, suffering, distress or lasting harm."
In the debate about when life ends, it states:
"For the purposes of this section an animal shall be regarded as continuing to live until the permanent cessation of circulation or the destruction of its brain."
I cannot help thinking wryly that only when a seal is washed up on our shores holding a placard saying "Save the human race" will we see the illogicality of the decisions that we take. Crucial and important as animal welfare may be, the same rules should apply to our own species.
In an attempt to blur the issue, there are even attempts to argue that pain is almost a metaphysical experience, based on understanding and memory that the human foetus has not had the opportunity to develop. I hope that we can lay such bunkum to rest once and for all. I refer the House in particular to the pioneering work of Professor Kenneth McAull on the issue of foetal memory.
Pain is a physical fact. There are thousands of patients suffering from diseases such as Alzheimer's who have no memory or understanding of their plight. Despite that, they can experience physical pain, and any doctor who suggested otherwise would be in severe trouble.
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The old chestnuts used to describe the human foetus as "a blob of jelly" or "a clump of cells" have long since been shown to be a parody of science. A human being, however small, who can react to light and disturbance and even show taste preferences, could never be described as a jelly.There is more bad science peddled on the subject. Some attempt to argue that the foetus can feel pain only through the cerebral cortex. That notion is wildly outdated, following the most recent research showing that it is in the lower part of the brain, the thalamus, that pain receptors discharge electrical impulses telling the body to react to trauma and noxious stimuli. The earliest response from the thalamus occurs at the end of the seventh week of pregnancy. Those who attempt to dismiss foetal ability to feel pain should take a lesson in science from Baroness Warnock and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. When Baroness Warnock and her committee were attempting to settle a time limit for destructive experiments on the human embryo, one factor that they took into account was the embryo's capacity to feel pain. They state in their report:
"As long as the embryo is incapable of feeling pain, it is argued that its treatment does not weigh in the balance.".
The report concludes:
"The time limit for research on the embryo could be set either when the first beginnings of the central nervous system can be identified or when functional activity first occurs."
Expert evidence was sought from the Royal College of Gynaecologists, and the Warnock committee reported its findings:
"The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists suggested that embryos should not be allowed to develop in vitro beyond a limit of seventeen days, as this is the point at which early neural development begins."
In the light of that, and the recommendations not only of Professor Fisk's team but of the Department's own report, I suggest to the Minister modest and reasonable action that he could take that would settle the matter, I hope, once and for all.
First, a circular could be issued to health authorities and to doctors, drawing their attention to the conclusions of the latest research and recommending action to anaesthetise foetuses before any invasive procedure, such as needling or intra-uterine surgery liable to cause trauma to the foetus. Secondly, in the interest of a fully informed decision, any parents who are considering giving permission for such procedures should be alerted to the possibility that pain will be inflicted on their unborn child.
If such action was properly and promptly taken, and adequately complied with, it might not then prove necessary to write pain prevention for the human foetus into statute, as it is at the moment with animals. I should also warn the Minister that, if such action is not taken, this issue will not go away, and legislation may be the only way to ensure that the suffering and the pain currently inflicted on the foetus will be alleviated.
1.11 pm
Mr. John Patten (Oxford, West and Abingdon): I am glad to have the chance to intervene briefly and to make three points. First, I warmly congratulate my hon. Friend the Minister and his predecessors in the Department of Health on taking this issue seriously; on immediately
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bringing before the House, in May this year, the most recent Department of Health report; on laying it in the Library; on making it publicly available; and on ensuring that there is no cover-up of the information that is available. My hon. Friend deserves our congratulations on that.My second point flows directly from the first. The information is publicly available and the Department of health has, I understand, accepted the report that foetuses feel pain during various procedures in the uterus. Just suppose that information had been made publicly available that a drugs company had a product on the market, a product that was used by pregnant women and caused pain to the foetus. Imagine the uproar that there would have been: early-day motions in this place; screaming headlines about a new drugs company scandal; learned leaders opining that something must be done; and Ministers dragged from their beds early in the morning on to the "Today" programme to explain why nothing had been done.
I do not suggest that there is a conspiracy of silence by the media about this issue--after all, the report has been available for many weeks--but I have seen no mention of it in the public prints. I suggest to the House that there is a blanket of silence about the issue, and it should now be brought as quickly as possible to the public notice.
I am sure that the BBC will be giving proper notice tomorrow to the debate. This is a classic issue for my friend, Michael Grade, whom I personally greatly admire, to ensure that it is properly aired, for example, on Channel 4, so that the public are awakened to something that would be seen as a scandal if a drugs company were involved, but over which a heavy blanket of silence has been drawn.
Thirdly, I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister would not seek to say that nothing should be done after the report. The first and most important thing to be done, as a matter of urgency in the coming weeks and months, is to give guidance to doctors, health authorities and trusts, and to private clinics as well, about the evidence shown by the report, to minimise the pain that foetuses may experience in all sorts of procedures, not just abortion. That is a matter of prime urgency.
Clear guidance should also be given to those who counsel mothers and fathers considering an abortion. One of the factors they should bear in mind and weigh in the balance when making that terrible decision--which many take but from which quite a few draw back--is that the procedure they are permitting and encouraging to go forward will involve pain to an unborn child.
They should have a clear understanding of that. It is a matter of prime importance. It is a considerable humanitarian issue, and the House expects a rapid reaction from Her Majesty's Government on it. Dr. Robert Spink (Castle Point) rose --
Mr. Campbell-Savours rose --
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Janet Fookes): Order. Can I be clear that hon. Members who are now seeking to catch my eye have the permission both of the organiser of the debate and of the Minister? It is also usual to inform the Chair in advance.
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1.14 pmMr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington): I am sorry about that, Madam Deputy Speaker, because, as you know, I am always very deferential to the Chair.
The right hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Mr. Patten) referred to do a conspiracy of silence. I believe that there is a conspiracy of silence. The reality is that it does not suit those who argue the right to choose--as freely as they would wish to exercise it--to have to consider the implications of foetal pain. That is the real world. It is an argument that is going on in America, here, and no doubt in other parts of western Europe. Only by publicising the issue will women face up to the responsibility of having to consider the implications of late abortion.
1.15 pm
Dr. Robert Spink (Castle Point): I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Mossley Hill (Mr. Alton) on bringing the debate to the Floor of the House. It is a very important issue.
Although I very much respect the hon. Gentleman's intention not to focus on abortion this morning, we cannot ignore the fact that many methods of abortion will bring pain and much suffering to a foetus. We heard quite graphically about how a foetus can experience suffering and pain.
I would therefore ask the House to reflect on the attitude of women who sign up to the Labour party's "Emily's List", because, I believe, one of the conditions for signing that list is that the women who do so have to accept that they are pro-abortion, and that that has certain implications. That needs further investigation, and we should look at it extremely carefully, because it is an important area. It is something that the country deserves to learn about.
I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity of raising that issue.
1.16 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Mr. Tom Sackville): I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Mossley Hill (Mr. Alton) on his success in raising a topic which, as we know, he has raised in different ways in the House on many occasions and about which he feels very deeply.
Perhaps I should first make clear the Government's position on abortion, as the matter is germane. Parliament decided that abortions may lawfully be carried out in the circumstances set out in the Abortion Act 1967, as subsequently amended by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990. The present provisions are in place as a result of a series of free votes in the House in 1967 and again in 1990. It was clear then and it is clear now that there are strongly held and widely differing views on the subject. In spite of that wide divergence, the Government must operate within a framework laid down by Parliament.
We have a duty to ensure that the provisions of the Act are properly applied until and unless Parliament chooses to change that law. In England, the operation of the Act is monitored closely by the Department of Health, through the Department's control of the private sector, and the investigation of specific complaints. Similar arrangements
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apply in Scotland and Wales. Last year, the Department of Health reviewed and updated its arrangements for improving and inspecting places approved under the Abortion Act.All medical practitioners carrying out terminations are required to notify the chief medical officer of each abortion they perform. The notification form includes the grounds for abortion, the method of treatment and the estimated gestation--that last point being particularly relevant to the matter that we are discussing today. The notification forms are scrutinised by staff authorised by the chief medical officer, to ensure that they do not indicate any contravention of the abortion law.
I am setting out the details of the Department's monitoring activities, because it is important for the House to understand the context and framework within which we operate. Monitoring is not a passive activity.
The Government do not take their responsibilities in this area lightly. We are conscious of the turmoil and worry that women face when they undergo termination of a pregnancy. We are sensitive to the feelings of those who oppose abortion. For many women, it is a tragic and difficult decision they face: it is no easy option. We recognise the importance of counselling for the women concerned, and all centres carrying out abortion or providing advice on abortion have guidelines on this important prerequisite. Furthermore, if an abortion has to take place, distressing though that may be, the earlier in pregnancy the better for all concerned.
There have been developments since the 1967 Act. The viability of the foetus at 24 weeks has been recognised, and for the great majority of cases that is the upper limit for termination. Medical, in contrast to surgical, termination has become available. In other words, for late terminations, drugs can be used to terminate the pregnancy instead of surgery.
Mr. Alton: As the Minister is setting out the record, I am sure that he will also want to make it clear that, since 1990, abortion is allowed right up to and even during birth on a handicapped baby.
Mr. Sackville: I am aware of that, but I reiterate that the vast majority of terminations are much earlier.
Some people who oppose abortion claim that those who accept it simply have no regard for human life. That is not the case for the Government.
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