House of Commons Hansard Debates for 13 Jul 1995

Mr. Roger Gale (Thanet, North): I wish to return to the general question of the Supply estimates, which relate largely--although not exclusively--to animal welfare and animal health issues. Let me again thank my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary for the diligence with which she has promoted animal welfare issues throughout the European Union, and welcome my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister to his new job.

On behalf of the all-party animal welfare group, which I chair, I applaud the sentiments that my right hon. and learned Friend expressed at the opening of the new offices of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons last week. I

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was delighted to learn that he intends to target the banning of veal crates as the Government's next objective. I hope that scientific evidence will enable real progress to be made by the end of the year.

We have dealt largely with matters relating to the single market and open frontiers. It has been said--correctly--that free trade in animals sometimes means free trade in diseases. In recent months, there have been outbreaks of equine viral arteritis. Earlier this week, my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary laid an order relating to the control of EVA in the United Kingdom. I hope that, when she winds up the debate, she will be able to give us some idea of the measures that Ministers are taking to control the movement of shedding stallions, not just in the United Kingdom but throughout the European Union.

Contagious diseases have also been imported in culled sheep from Poland and Spain. In a number of instances, animal diseases that we had thought to be either under control or eradicated in this country have been imported. That demonstrates the need for rigid controls in the country of origin, and strict on-farm quarantine when animals arrive in the United Kingdom.

Outbreaks of that kind underline the importance of veterinary education and the maintaining of veterinary standards throughout the European Union. My hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin) mentioned that in connection with the Select Committee report. Is my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary able to make a further announcement about the availability of European Commission funds for veterinary education? We had the impression that the Commission would look favourably on that, but there seems to have been a hiatus. A settlement is overdue.

Clearly, in the minds of the media, this is "the rabies debate". I mentioned free trade in diseases. I have no wish to see rabies spread throughout the United Kingdom, but I believe that, if there is a free trade in diseases, there is also a free trade in hysteria and prejudice, particularly about rabies. I am persuaded by the scientific arguments--as, clearly, are many other hon. Members--that the time has come to make real progress.

I listened with interest to the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare, and I studied his Committee's excellent report with great care. Like earlier speakers, I started from the premise that the controls that we have, we hold; they work, and we should not mend things that are not broken.

Let us examine a couple of the myths. My hon. Friend the Member for Faversham (Sir R. Moate) said that quarantine worked. Does it? That must be the first myth. We know that animals are smuggled into this country on ferries, possibly--now--through the channel tunnel, and on sailing yachts entering the many ports along the south and other coasts. I am told--much of the evidence is anecdotal--that it is relatively easy to obtain an anaesthetic for a dog in northern France. One can knock out the dog, chuck it into the boot and put a blanket over it and it wakes up after half an hour through the tunnel, 45 minutes on the hovercraft or one hour on the ferry, somewhere in the United Kingdom. The risk of detection is minimal. If one weighs that risk against a bill of £1,000 or £1,200 for six months' quarantine--we have heard various figures--and the real distress that one feels at

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having to quarantine one's animals, it must seem worth taking. Yes, the penalties for detection are severe, but the chances of detection are fairly remote.

The stories are anecdotal, so let me put my own anecdote on the record. As chairman of the all-party animal welfare group and a Kent Member of Parliament, I received a third-party approach from an American, apparently resident in Switzerland, who wanted to bring a dalmatian into the UK and, peculiarly, sought my advice as to how that could be done by bending the rules. I had to say that he had come to the wrong person, but the approach was made.

The second myth is the huge number of cases. It is a half-myth; it is a misrepresentation of fact. I took part in a radio discussion on Saturday morning with an "expert" on this subject who said that there were 15,000 cases of rabies worldwide every year, but I am told by my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham that, based on a House of Commons Library report, there are 30,000 or more such cases in India alone. I am not sure where these figures come from, but the implication is that they affect us throughout northern Europe and the UK. Perhaps someone in the House can tell me when the last case of human rabies was detected in northern Europe. I do not think that the British Medical Association referred to that in its report and I have no reference anywhere else.

What I do know, because the figures are given in the report produced by the Committee of my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare, is that 150,000 dogs and cats have been imported into the UK since 1972 and that, as was mentioned earlier, out of those 150,000 animals, two from third countries developed rabies; none from the European Union developed the disease. No one I know is suggesting that there should be any relaxation of the rules from third countries. We are considering the European Union specifically at present.

Sir Jerry Wiggin: Rabies-free countries.

Mr. Gale: I am coming to that.

I want to ask my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary, not to give an answer tonight, because if I receive one tonight, it will be no, but to consider two proposals. First, will she consider that we should allow the importing of animals owned by members of the armed forces and by members of the diplomatic corps, and the importing of guide dogs owned by anyone, provided that they are vaccinated, have proper documentation, have had blood tests and are identifiable? In the case of forces personnel coming from rabies-free countries such as Cyprus, I see no difficulty with that. It would be possible to vaccinate a dog or cat six months before return, because the date of return is always known, to have that animal examined by an officer of the Royal Army Veterinary Corps and certified as okay. At present, soldiers and airmen coming from Cyprus having done a two-year tour of duty have two choices: they either bring the family pet home and kennel it at a cost of some £1,200 for six months, or they use the services of the excellent British Army Rescue Centre to have the animal rehomed in Cyprus.

There is--I was going to say a trade, but it is not a commercial business-- an enterprise that recycles family pets so that outgoing services families are able to take on, not unwanted, but unimportable animals left behind by their return home. That is daft, unnecessary and inhumane

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and there is no reason for maintaining it. If we cannot trust the members of our own diplomatic corps to have their animals vaccinated and properly documented, and allow them to move around the world without having to quarantine their animals every time they are brought home at the end of a tour of duty, we should be able to. The hon. Member for Bristol, East (Ms Corston) mentioned guide dogs. Clearly, certainly in the European Union, we should be able to make immediate provision for people travelling abroad or returning with guide dogs, provided that they are properly documented. My second proposal to my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary is this. In her letter to me of 30 June, in response to a constituent's inquiry, she said:

"It is possible to regulate commercial imports through a system of vaccination, blood testing, controlled transportation, advanced notification and checks at destination. It is difficult to see how checks of this kind could be applied to pet animals travelling with their owners. At the very least, to ensure the same degree of certainty about the health status and identity of the animal would require a considerable increase in administrative action and administrative costs."

I am dreadfully sorry, but I do not accept that. We usually agree, but on this issue my hon. Friend is right in the first half of the paragraph but absolutely wrong in the second.

I want to make a proposal. I want my hon. Friend to introduce a pilot scheme through the ports of Ramsgate in Thanet and Dover, two of the most widely used Kent channel ports. Initially, my proposal would not allow the importing of animals from the European Union, but would allow the reimporting of animals taken out from the United Kingdom by United Kingdom citizens going on holiday. That should be done provided that those animals have been vaccinated six months in advance of travel, have been blood tested after six months, have a canine or feline passport certified by the vet who carried out the test and that they are microchipped to what I hope will become the FECAVA--the Federation of European Companion Animals Veterinary Association--common European standard of identification.

Given all that information, I can see no reason why it should not be perfectly feasible to allow a family to take a dog or a cat on holiday. They would book on to a given ferry--which they do anyway--and have the animal placed in a holding kennel at the port upon entry. My hon. Friend the Member for Faversham referred to black labradors. I happen to have a black labrador and I would love to take it on holiday with me. We do not want a long queue of cars at ports, so I would be happy to leave my animal in a holding kennel. I would be happy to allow that animal to be collected with others on the same day and taken to a quarantine kennel where it would be blood tested again and identified. I would then collect my animal from the quarantine kennel. There would be no massive bureaucracy at the port and no massive cost except to me, the owner. If I am prepared to pay the entire cost, I cannot see why it is not possible to do it. There is an added advantage. We have had representations from members of the Quarantine Kennels Owners Association who have justifiably expressed concern about the future of their considerable investment in their facilities. I believe that, with the system that I have outlined, they would benefit from the trade in animals coming in from third countries where quarantine would continue and from the additional business generated by those who would use the kennels on their return from holiday.

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I am fortunate in that I never leave my home unattended so my animals stay at home. Not everybody is that lucky. Some people have to put their cats or dogs into kennels or catteries for a fortnight when they go on holiday. I cannot believe that those people would prefer to put their animals in a kennel for a fortnight rather than for two or three days. Equally, I can see no reason why the quarantine kennel should not have the business that would be generated by such a scheme.

I can see no risk to animal health in the United Kingdom from that process. I believe that if we can establish that that works on a pilot basis, it should be possible to extend the process of vaccination, blood testing and microchip identification to the whole of Europe so as to allow European Union citizens to bring their animals into the United Kingdom on the same basis.

I believe that we have a choice, but to do nothing is not part of that choice. There will be more, not fewer, animals smuggled into the United Kingdom. As has been said already, the risk is not from the responsible, law-abiding animal owner but from the smuggler--the person who is most likely to bring in an animal that may not have been vaccinated. A responsible pet owner--from any country in Europe, including the United Kingdom--will want to look after his or her animal. The risk is from the smuggled animal.

We must forget the mythology about rabid foxes wandering through the channel tunnel. If we are to eradicate the risk caused by smuggled animals, we must remove the incentive to smuggle. Provided that it is cheaper--what I am proposing would be a great deal cheaper than the average £1,200 quarantine fees--and that it is relatively simple to go through the necessary processes, people will not take the risk of a fine or imprisonment for smuggling.

There is a way forward. If we are to prevent the growing illegal trade and accept that in a wider Europe people will want to travel with their companion animals, we must do something positive. I believe that what I have suggested, which is based on scientific evidence taken by the Select Committee--details of which are contained in the report--is a way forward.

The estimates make provision for the funding of European negotiation and for matters relating to the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986. My hon. Friend the Minister may feel that what I am about to say is a matter for either the Home Office or the Department of Trade and Industry, but she would not expect me to miss this opportunity to place on record, again, the case for funding the work of the European centre for the validation of alternative methods to the use of animals in experimentation. There is a great deal of work to do and every penny of the money in the estimates, and much more, will be needed to support that work.

9.11 pm

Mr. Colin Pickthall (Lancashire, West): I want to speak briefly in support of my colleagues the hon. Members for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin) and for Bristol, East (Ms Corston) in what they have said this evening. I also support much of what was said by the hon. Member for Thanet, North (Mr. Gale), especially his comment that doing nothing is not a choice.

I confess that I entered into the investigation on health controls on the importation of live animals with a strong prejudice in favour of the retention of quarantine. It

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appeared to me that one of the great benefits of this country being an island was the possibility of keeping such diseases as rabies at bay. Quarantine had appeared to work for most of the century and I was predisposed to say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." In addition, the advent of the channel tunnel had agitated many of the rural population in my constituency to the point where they had calculated that as a fox could travel at about 25 miles a day, rabid animals would be through the tunnel and biting people in west Lancashire in less than a fortnight.

Mr. Elliot Morley (Glanford and Scunthorpe): Faster than a train.

Mr. Pickthall: It is certainly faster than a train on the west coast main line.

Rabies is such a horrible disease that we must take such fears seriously. It was my belief that any relaxation of quarantine would seriously affect public confidence. That view was echoed by the then Minister when she gave evidence to the Committee. She said: "Our scientific advice and our veterinary advice is that quarantine continues to be the most practical, most effective way of keeping rabies out."

I must add to my predisposition in favour of the retention of quarantine the fact that my withers are not at all wrung by the laments of pet owners at being separated from their dogs or cats. I am not a pet owner and I am not especially a pet lover. In the context of rabies, such emotion from pet owners is, to put it bluntly, irrelevant.

My change of mind during the course of the Committee's investigation was based strictly on the practical evidence that we heard and examined. First, as was mentioned by the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare, the cost of quarantine is somewhere in excess of £1,000--indeed, we heard estimates of up to £1,500. Therefore, on at least a financial level, quarantine is a relatively easy option for the well-heeled, but a considerable burden for people of average means, such as many of the service personnel who gave us written evidence.

Secondly, as has been said, the cost of quarantine provides a positive incentive for the smuggling of animals. On our visit to the Heathrow quarantine station, we were given evidence of animals that had been abandoned in panic on the airport tarmac; we were shown a bush-baby with its hind legs broken, which had been smuggled in in someone's top pocket.

I might say, by the way, that when we were being entertained by the entire security staff of that quarantine station--we were in the reptile section-- we suddenly found in front of us a splendid looking snake wriggling about on the floor, much to the alarm of the hon. Member for Congleton (Mrs. Winterton). That incident was, I recall, rather spectacularly recorded by the BBC.

On the issue of smuggling, I have not had a chance to read the British Medical Association document that came out a few days ago but, thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, East, I have had a chance to read the covering letter. In two consecutive sentences, the letter states:

"Anecdotal evidence suggests few obstacles face those attempting to avoid quarantine by smuggling animals, particularly by car, from France to Britain. The present quarantine system has had a 100 per cent. success rate since 1971."

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What sort of success rate is that? Of course, for the animals that are trapped by quarantine, there is a 100 per cent. success rate, but what about the others to which hon. Members have referred? Mr. Wykeham of the Quarantine Kennel Owners Association pointed out to us in his evidence:

"Instances have occurred when the carrying agent for the quarantine kennel has failed for one reason or another to make the rendezvous with the ferry and the car carrying the animal has driven off the vessel and out of the port without check or hindrance." We are talking not only about smuggling but, in some cases, about incompetence and lack of security.

Those incidents alerted me and, I am sure, other Committee members to the vastness and intricacy of the British coastline and the increase in the use of boats for pleasure and business. Ironically, the one link that seems secure from rabies is the channel tunnel, which has, as we saw for ourselves, very comprehensive defences against rabies. Virtually everywhere else seems to be vulnerable. We also heard of--I will not go into this because my colleagues have discussed it--the experience of other countries such Sweden and Denmark. We also dealt with--this seems to me important-- the arrangements for trading dogs and cats under the Balai directive and the exemptions for farm animal imports. Both point to an absurd discrepancy which is, not surprisingly, leapt upon by pet owners abroad who see that commercial advantage can remove quarantine like magic in some cases but that they remain trapped by quarantine. That is an injustice and illogicality which the Committee's

recommendations properly address.

The Committee's recommendations on rabies control--in the end, unanimously and without reluctance--is, in my view, a stricter control than that offered by quarantine. They make no change to the importation of animals from non-approved countries--that is, countries where rabies is widespread- -but introduce vaccination, microchipping and blood-testing regimes, retain import licensing and introduce animal passports.

As our report said, if we have erred, it is very much on the side of caution. The fact that the Government do not approve those recommendations emanates from their understandable desire to address what they perceive as a strong emotional desire on the part of much of the population to retain quarantine--the sort of feeling that I had about the matter when we started the investigation--and also the public perception that quarantine is the only answer.

It must be the Government's task occasionally to challenge emotional perceptions, and this is one such case. If the Government retain the status quo, they must say precisely why our

recommendations would not strengthen the UK's defences against rabies and correct an illogical injustice.

The Committee's report covered a wide range of concerns. I shall raise just one, which particularly interested me. We were made very much aware--it was the main purpose of the investigation--of the increased problems in farm animal health created by the single market, the relaxation of borders in the EU, and the increased speed of the transit of animals. Despite our reservations, and those of our witnesses, about some areas of the European Union, on the whole the EU seems to take the problem seriously. However, we continually returned to the vexed question of movements of animals across the borders between eastern Europe and the EU.

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Mr. Anthony, the retiring president of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, identified three major disease corridors: first, Russia-Poland-Germany; secondly, Turkey and Iran through Greece to Austria; and thirdly and potentially, north Africa to Spain and Italy. He specified that veterinary training and standards of certification were unsatisfactory in some areas and that

"the checks at the borders"

of the EU

"are not as high as we would wish."

For example, he told us of the importation of loads of Polish sheep early in 1994, on which there were many documentary deficiencies. One load had animals that were unfit for human consumption and some dead on arrival. In Poland, those sheep are sold for £2 a head and the transporter gets £5 a head. They are sold in the UK for £27 a head--approximately £6,000 profit per lorry load. That is a considerable incentive for at least cutting corners in crossing the Polish-German border, an area that Mr. Anthony said was "very difficult to administer". Once such loads of animals are in the European Union, their movements are relatively unhindered. Mr. Neal King, vice-president of the RCVS, told us:

"Over the years we have kept disease out by quality . . . we have done this by our own certification."

He said that we now depend on others and went on:

"We depend on their attitude to the animals coming in over their third country frontier rather than our attitude when they come in from the Channel to us".

Mr. Kershaw-Dalby, secretary to the National Cattle Breeders' Association, told us of animals going from Poland to France, where they tested positive for foot and mouth disease. He said:

"Some of those animals were never traced. The monitoring of ports is non- existent".

He said that some of the documentation was "obscure" and that, for example, the instruction that all cattle imported from Europe must be treated for warble fly appears

"on page 37 in minute print".

The NCBA also gave evidence of eastern European cattle being "laundered" in Austria, which at that time was a useful staging post because of its favoured status.

We therefore have four problems to face up to. The first is the leaky nature of the border between the European Union and the east and the clear deficiencies of the border inspection posts. Clearly, that is a task for the European Commission to tackle, and part of that job must be some hard education work in the eastern European countries, which is all the more necessary because of the likely closer relationship with Poland, former Czechoslovakia and Hungary in the not too distant future. The second is the need for much tighter monitoring and inspection of animals coming from Europe to the UK. The third is the need for clearer and tougher guidelines for dealers, importers and farmers, and the fourth is a much tougher pan- European regime for veterinarians.

I welcome the Government's response on holding periods, but the enthusiasm with which they embrace the notion in paragraph 7 of Command 2735 that the primary responsibility for preventing the introduction of disease now rests with importers is bothering. That is the only weak part of the Committee's report. Of course, most importers and farmers take their responsibilities seriously. They do not want to damage their herds; they do not want

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to introduce disease. However, in the case of the diseases that we have discussed, it takes few people--perhaps only one renegade--to create a catastrophe. The importer's responsibilities must be backed by the Government sanctions, which the Committee recommends. It is ultimately a communal priority and a communal responsibility, not only a responsibility of the importers.

Although our report rejected the alarmist "disease time bomb" theory outlined for us by some witnesses, there can be little doubt that, as movement of animals from eastern Europe and possibly also from north Africa and the near east increases, there is a clear potential danger of disease spread, accelerated by ease of movement in the EU. The specific recommendations made by the Committee in paragraph 47 of its report are a serious attempt to minimise risk. Naturally, there are financial implications, but the potential cost of a breakdown of fail-safe mechanisms is astronomical.

In a sense, the problems of combating rabies importation and of combating the importation of farm animal diseases are similar. In each case, success depends on accurate information, especially identification, on rigorous monitoring, on punitive sanctions against transgressors, on cost- effectiveness so as not to push people into transgression and on partnership between Government and the importers and farmers to ensure that risks are minimised, in all our interests.

I find it hard to reconcile the Government's deep suspicion of the European Union's progress on rabies control with their sanguine opinion of the disease importation problems of farm animals and the exemptions under the Balai directive. I can only conclude that the Government are responding with emotion in the first case and with some practical logic in the second case.

In my opinion, as a member of the Select Committee, who is not easily convinced of anything, the Committee members tackled both those main issues with scrupulous practicality. I urge the Government to make it a priority to reconsider the recommendations on replacing quarantine as soon as, in their own terms, the Swedish and Danish experiences can be reliably examined--I would hope, in 12 months. 9.26 pm

Mr. Richard Alexander (Newark): I shall be brief, so that others might have an opportunity to speak.

Probably no aspect of man's contact with the animal world creates more fear and anxiety than possible contact with rabies. It is an understandable fear, which the House must recognise, and which was articulated earlier, yet the Select Committee is telling the House, "Perhaps time has moved on; perhaps we should consider the issue again".

The popular reaction in the country is, "We have not had rabies in Britain for many years; let's not take risks now," or, "The channel tunnel is creating greater opportunities for rabies to come in; let's not take risks now." That was the gist of some of the evidence that the Select Committee received, but it also received evidence, which was new to many of us, of the unintentional stress and distress caused to animals--as well as that experienced by the owner--as a result of quarantine.

The animal must, as we know, be kept in quarantine for six months, which is a significant part of its life. It does not know that it is there for the good of the public; all it knows is that its owner and its friend has put it away

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for six months. The Association of RAF Wives described quarantine as "an extremely cruel procedure", involving unnecessary expense, when there are obvious other ways in which to establish that there is no risk.

I shall not discuss cost in detail, but I shall emphasise the arguments that have been made about quarantine being expensive. It is expensive for the expatriate and for the diplomat and his family, and the cost increases the possibility of smuggling, which other colleagues have mentioned. The paradox is that, by imposing stringent controls and making the process expensive, the less responsible pet owner is tempted to smuggle and the decent, responsible pet owner has to pay the cost.

The British Medical Association has submitted a memorandum to many of us. We must recognise the concern of the people who would give medical care to anyone who was affected by rabies, which is an appalling prospect for the medical profession. In the memorandum, there is little scientific evidence to back up what the association says. In addition, the BMA, unlike the learned bodies that gave evidence to us, gives no evidence for the concern that it is now raising with hon. Members. It would have been helpful if the association had come to the Select Committee and told us its views. We await the comments of the Parliamentary Secretary with interest. The Government's response to the Select Committee report was in three parts. The then Minister of Agriculture, my right hon. Friend the Member for Norfolk, South-West (Mrs. Shephard), said that the problem was "onerous for some people." That is precisely the point that the Committee made. The Committee would say that the problem is not merely onerous, but intolerable for thousands of decent British people who want to travel with their pets.

The Minister also accepted that microchips were reliable and that the blood test was effective one month after vaccination, yet the Ministry does not draw the obvious conclusion that a pet passport would be a safe method of taking a pet out of the United Kingdom into certain other countries and bringing it back. I suggest that Customs and Excise could easily control that method with the red channel at ports and airports--anywhere where there is a possibility of a pet coming in.

The report is far-sighted. The issue obviously raises emotions, but fortunately--and rarely in the House--it is a non-party political issue. The arguments have been set out and they have been adduced here tonight. It is up to the public and to their representatives to take the discussion further. I am sure that the House waits with great interest for the response from both the Government and the Opposition to what has been said today.

9.31 pm

Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones (Ynys Mo n): This has been an interesting and lively debate; it has also been instructive. All the members of the Select Committee who have spoken, other than the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin)--I am privileged to be a member of the Select Committee-- came to the inquiry utterly convinced that the quarantine regulations had to stay as they were. It was the conduct of the inquiry and the evidence we heard, especially the overwhelming scientific evidence, that convinced us that the rules had to

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be changed and that quarantine eventually had to come to an end in a limited way in the United Kingdom. In our report, we have described the way in which the rules can now be changed.

Although I listened with great care to what the hon. Member for Faversham (Sir R. Moate) said, I am pretty convinced, knowing his attitude to the Committee's work, that if he had been a member of our Committee at the time, he would have started from the same position as us, but would have been persuaded, as we were, by the evidence we heard. It was a tall task to expect us to change our minds, but we did and it is right that those of us who are members of the Select Committee place that fact on the record.

There were four reasons for my changing my mind. First, I was convinced, in view of developments since the Waterhouse report in 1970, of the effectiveness of vaccine, of the use of microchips and of developments in medicine and technology. Secondly, I was convinced because of the success of the oral vaccine programme in the European Community. We had a briefing that it was likely that rabies would be eradicated, to take the most optimistic approach, in two or three years. Even the pessimists said that it would be eradicated by the end of the century. We are making excellent progress, from 8,500 cases of animal rabies in 1989 to 1,200 in 1993.

Since 1994, we have allowed in commercially traded dogs and cats, subject to certain conditions. I agree entirely with my hon. Friend--if I can call her that--the Member for Bristol, East (Ms Corston). The overwhelming evidence presented when the Committee visited Sweden and Denmark was the clincher for me. Those countries have traditions and problems that are similar to ours and Sweden has been rabies free since 1886. They examined all the evidence--including the fact that Sweden and Germany share a border --and they were utterly convinced that they should change the rules.

Finally, if we had thought for a moment that our recommendation would increase the risk of rabies, we would never have suggested it. The tests that we propose are as safe as the quarantine regulations, but they are far more efficient, less costly and much less distressing for the animals. We have put forward a proposal for the new century that is compatible with advances in medicine and in technology.

9.35 pm

Mr. Elliot Morley (Glanford and Scunthorpe): On behalf of the Opposition, I welcome the fifth report of the Agriculture Select Committee. It is up to the Committee's usual high standard, and we congratulate the Chairman, the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin), and the other Committee members on the way in which they have presented the report. I am a former member of the Committee and I enjoyed serving on it. I am familiar with the detailed work involved in preparing a report.

Controls on the importation of live animals are a key issue in terms of animal welfare and the economic impact on the country. We must ensure that we maintain our very high standards and our disease-free status. With the advent of the single market, concerns were expressed about the relaxation of checks at points of entry, so it was important to examine the issues in some detail.

I believe that we should continue to examine those controls and, in some cases, to tighten them. The suggestion of using coloured ear tags to identify the

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country of origin of animal imports is a good idea that is worth further examination. The reintroduction of a holding period at points of distribution also has many advantages, not least in the context of the controversy surrounding live animal exports and imports. The holding period would provide an opportunity to examine the condition of the animals, to check for disease and ton ensure that they were being treated properly. In their response, the Government accepted the argument for a period of three working days and, while I welcome that concession, I prefer the Committee's original recommendation. The Government have made it clear that importers must act responsibly. The campaign involving the distribution of "Don't Import Disease" leaflets has proved helpful. However, to be fair, some sectors of the industry--such as the pig sector--have introduced their own quality control measures and they deserve credit for that. The National Farmers Union also deserves commendation for its attempts to introduce a warranty and indemnity scheme.

However, guidance has not prevented outbreaks of disease such as warble fly in 1994. While I am aware that inspections have been increased at ports of entry, the Government must address a number of remaining problems. The first is accurate and consistent veterinary certification, as mentioned by the Committee. The second is a common standard of veterinary competence. That problem was recognised in the Bendixen-Dexter report, which I agree should be made public. Thirdly, there is the problem of the absence of the system for information inspections at frontiers--SHIFT--computer system, which monitors animal movement. Even when computer systems are in place and working properly, there may be an accuracy problem. The Minister might recall the problem with the ANIMO system, which I identified in written questions that I tabled to him. I drew the Minister's attention to fraudulent certification--which is outside his control--and the fact that mistakes were being made when details were being entered into the database.

Fourthly, we must have adequate inspection procedures at points of entry. I do not believe that the single market precludes that and I note that the French are considering reintroducing spot checks at their borders. The state veterinary service has a major role to play in that process. I believe that the Government risk undermining the high standards of animal health in this Britain by cutting the state veterinary service. There has already been a staff cut of 31 per cent.--their number has decreased from 580 in 1979 to 403 in 1994. In 1979, there were 25 veterinary inspection centres; now, there are only 13.

There is concern that, after seven years, there are still quite a large number of outbreaks of BSE, but we welcome the overall sharp reduction in the number of cases. As has been said, sheep scab raises all-party concern. I note that, after many representations, the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has admitted that there has been an increase in sheep scab outbreaks since compulsory dipping ended in 1992. On MAFF's own figures in its recent report, private vets have reported an increase from 254 outbreaks in 1994 to 595 so far this year--more than double, only half- way through the year. I also refer the Government to the recent report by the Farm Animal Welfare Council on the welfare of sheep. It calls firmly for sheep scab to be reinstated as a notifiable disease. The Government's response to that report was

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inadequate. The FAWC also recognises concern about the use of organophosphate sheep dips and the need for tight control as well as the development of alternatives. In effect, the Government said that the sheep industry should play a role in financing the development of alternatives. That is just not a realistic response because sheep farmers are among the poorest in the agriculture sector. They often have small farms, run by small self-employed families who are tough and self-reliant but not really in a position to provide a major contribution to such research.

I recently met a Mrs. Brenda Sutcliffe of Sheepbank farm, Littleborough and Saddleworth, with whom I had the privilege of discussing sheep dips and the problems of organophosphate dips. Incidentally, she probably knows more about the chemical composition and effects of OP sheep dips than anyone I have met. The Government owe people like Mrs. Sutcliffe and her family an open and detailed examination of claims about OP dips, and they should give some thought to how to help such people, who might not be able to work for their full working life if the claims about the detrimental effect prove to be correct.

I have a particular interest in bovine tuberculosis and badger control. It is a major area which deserves a debate on its own. I know that it has been proposed to refer the issue to the Select Committee, which would be a welcome step forward. At this stage, the Opposition remain unconvinced that the badger culling policy is either acceptable or, indeed, effective. I know and sympathise with farmers who are facing the problem and the financial impact of the outbreak of bovine TB. Nevertheless, there are a great many anomalies in the approach to the problem. The science is really shaky, because it has not been scientifically proved that badgers cannot be infected by cattle. That needs to be considered very carefully and, at the moment, too many people have set their faces against examining it. As the Chairman of the Select Committee said, there would be an opportunity to look into that matter if the dairy industry were considered. I know that, given the hon. Gentleman's affection for badgers, he will look into the matter very sympathetically. The part of the Select Committee report that deals with rabies has obviously attracted a great deal of attention. That is understandable, because rabies is a very emotional issue. It is a terrible disease, people are very concerned about it, and we have to ensure that we maintain our rabies-free status. On behalf of the Opposition, I have to say that the Select Committee's representations on the issue were well researched and well argued. It put forward a very convincing case, but we do not differ from the Government in that we want to ensure that the controls on rabies are effective. Before we move away from them, we must be convinced that any changes are workable. Having said that, I believe that the Government's response has been somewhat negative. I have been impressed by representations made by people who have pets abroad and by those who believe that there are alternatives. The Government could be more open- minded, bearing in mind the changes in the directive. I wrote to the Minister suggesting that she consider a trial scheme in Cyprus, which is a rabies-free island, on the lines suggested by the hon. Member for Thanet, North (Mr. Gale). The system could be put in place and its effectiveness, or otherwise, examined. There would be no risk, because the animals would be travelling to and from

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rabies-free islands. The Minister gave me a courteous written reply, but her point that other countries have a stronger claim was not convincing. Perhaps she will give that suggestion further thought. We must not compromise Britain's rabies-free status, but there should be wide consultation, careful consideration and proper research into rabies and animal health control in general. 9.45 pm

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mrs. Angela Browning): I have a sense of de ja vu, because one forfeit of becoming a junior Agriculture Minister was losing my place on the Select Committee so ably chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (Sir J. Wiggin). I am grateful to the Select Committee for prompting this debate, and I will attempt to reply to many of the questions that have been put, particularly by Select Committee members.

Last year's report was an invaluable investigation into the problems associated with the import of live animals. The members of the Committee must be congratulated on their clear and detailed analysis of the risks that our current arrangements present to our high animal health status. I pay tribute to the veterinary and medical professions for their contribution to the debate. It is clear that the two professions share the Government's cautious attitude to this important issue.

The Government welcome the Committee's endorsement of the health controls that have been put in place following completion of the single market in 1993. That vindicates the Government's approach in dealing with the threat of imported animal disease, although we are by no means complacent. We welcome the Committee's conclusion that the risk of disease entering the United Kingdom through imported livestock has not increased to any appreciable extent.

We are pleased at the support given by the Committee to the introduction in 1993 of strengthened measures designed to maintain the United Kingdom's high animal health status. We agree with the Committee that primary responsibility for protecting the United Kingdom's high animal health status under the new single market arrangements rests with the importers of animals.

In November 1993, my right hon. Friend the then Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, now Secretary of State for Education and Employment, announced newly strengthened measures to maintain Britain's high animal health status. Those measures, which remain in force, include 24-hour periods of blanket surveillance at all south and east coast ports, and targeting consignments where there is a particular animal health disease risk--with up to 100 per cent. checks and increased checks at points of destination so that, on average, between 50 and 60 per cent. of consignments are checked.

Where there is specific cause for concern, additional steps have been taken. They include 100 per cent. checks for warble fly on all cattle imported from France, serological testing of all cattle imported from eastern Europe for FMD antibodies, and increased checks at the point of destination of cattle from France and the

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