House of Commons Hansard Debates for 16 Oct 1995

Mr. Paddy Tipping (Sherwood): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that you are aware of the tragic and fatal accident that took place at Thoresby colliery last Thursday, 12 October. It is essential that we identify the cause of the accident, learn the lessons from it and reassure people who work in the coal industry. When British Coal was in the public sector, we might have expected a statement to the House. Now that the industry is in the private sector, no statement is to be made. I wonder what steps should now be taken to ensure that the House and all those who are connected with the coal industry have access to a clear, open and honest account of the accident.

Madam Speaker: The accident to which the hon. Gentleman refers is indeed a tragedy for the community he represents, particularly for those families who are directly affected by it. I have had no request for a statement on the matter and have not heard from any Minister that a statement is forthcoming. Therefore, I have to leave it to the hon. Gentleman who represents that area to attempt to raise the matter in another way. I shall be sympathetic to that if he chooses to do so.

Mr. Peter Hain (Neath): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In today's Order Paper, the right hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) describes himself as the Deputy Prime Minister. In the Order Paper that was published over the summer, he was described as the First Secretary of State. Indeed, when I went to the Table Office and sought to table a question to the Deputy Prime Minister, I was advised that the description was the First Secretary of State. I wonder who caused that change in description. Will you advise me as to which term has the highest status?

Madam Speaker: That is certainly not a point of order for me, as I have no responsibility in allocating the titles of Ministers. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I had nothing to do with the allocation of title to the right hon. Gentleman to whom he refers.

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Defence Estimates

[ First Day

]

[Relevant documents: The Defence Committee has reported on the Statement on the Defence Estimates 1995 in its Ninth Report of Session 1994-95, HC 572. The First Report from the Defence Committee on the Defence Estate, HC 67; the Fourth Special Report containing the Government's Reply thereto, HC 318; the Fifth Report on Defence Costs Study Follow-up: Defence Medical Services, HC 102; the Sixth Special Report containing the Government's Reply thereto, HC 641; the Sixth Report on Defence Use of Civilian Transport Assets and Personnel, HC86; and the Seventh Report on Reconnaissance, Intelligence, Surveillance and Target Acquisition, HC 319.]

Madam Speaker: I have selected the amendment standing in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.

5.5 pm

The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Michael Portillo): I beg to move,

That this House approves the Statement on the Defence Estimates 1995 contained in Cm. 2800.

It is an honour for me to open this debate on the "Statement on the Defence Estimates 1995". The Government will take this opportunity to respond to the Defence Select Committee's report. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Waterside (Mr. Colvin) on becoming Chairman of the Defence Select Committee, in succession to my hon. Friend the Member for Upminster (Sir N. Bonsor), whom we also congratulate.

We ended the last Session with a debate on the former Yugoslavia. In July, things looked pretty desperate. The Bosnian Serbs had overrun the United Nations safe areas of Srebrenica and Zepa. Our television screens were full of harrowing images of death and destruction. Gorazde, where British soldiers of the Royal Welch Fusiliers were based, was threatened. Much has changed.

At the London conference, called by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, we achieved what until then had seemed impossible. The international community found a new resolve. The Bosnian Serbs were told in clear terms that further attacks on the United Nations safe areas would be met with a decisive military response.

The UN Generals Janvier and Smith took timely action to reduce the vulnerability of the UN forces. Their success in withdrawing the Royal Welch Fusiliers from their exposed position in Gorazde was a particular relief to us all.

Following the Bosnian Serb attack on Sarajevo marketplace, NATO began an air campaign. British planes carried out a significant share of the bombing raids. Let us hope that the Bosnian Serb generals now understand and will not again doubt the resolve of the international community.

The improved position on the ground has enabled the UN Secretary-General to reduce the size of UNPROFOR. As a result, we will bring home most of 24 Air Mobile Brigade later this month, but we shall leave their heavy equipment and some maintenance personnel to facilitate a rapid return to theatre if necessary. The presence of the brigade has played a vital part in making clear to the

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Bosnian Serbs our determination to enhance the effectiveness of UNPROFOR and to provide additional protection to British troops. We would not be where we are today without the continued commitment of UN and NATO forces from many countries. The House will wish to pay tribute to their courage and professionalism.

Our special tribute must go to the British forces--the front-line troops deployed in hazardous locations, such as Gorazde; those on Mount Igman, with the multinational brigade, where our batteries have been involved in action in defence of the Sarajevo safe area; all the key supporting forces and the Royal Navy ships in the Adriatic; and the air men and women of both the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy, who have served with such distinction, particularly those who played a part in the air campaign and who have flown humanitarian aid into Sarajevo. Quietly, sensibly and steadfastly, they have been getting on with what needs to be done in the former Yugoslavia.

I should like to recall the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr. Hurd), who told the House on 29 April 1993 that the Government's key aims were to prevent the conflict from spreading, to relieve humanitarian suffering and to provide a framework for a political solution.

We have met those objectives. We have prevented the conflict from spreading into a wider Balkan war. We have reduced the killing and made a major contribution to relief, and we have played a leading role in the peace process, notably by our membership of the five nation contact group.

The United States initiative launched at the end of August may have brought us to the brink of a peaceful settlement. I congratulate Dick Holbrooke and Carl Bildt on their tireless efforts leading to the ceasefire of 12 October.

The alliance may now face a new challenge. We are already engaged in planning for a peace implementation force. It will be NATO-led, and NATO forces will provide the core; but we would expect other nations to play their part. Russia, in particular, should have a substantial role. Good progress was made in discussions between NATO Ministers at Williamsburg earlier this month.

The headquarters of the Allied Command Europe rapid reaction corps--the ARRC--will play a key part. As NATO's only deployable corps HQ, it is vital to the success of any ground operation. Britain provides the commander and some 60 per cent. of the staff. I am confident that General Sir Mike Walker and his team will rise to the challenge.

NATO's role in Bosnia helps us to focus on the alliance's development in the future. The Government welcome the very useful report recently produced by the Defence Select Committee. The NATO Defence Ministers in Williamsburg had a good discussion on NATO enlargement. NATO has recently published the results of its work on the "how and why" of enlargement. These are now being presented to partners, and Defence Ministers will collectively consider the next steps at the NATO meetings in early December.

Those will be important decisions. History teaches us that we should not give security guarantees lightly. Furthermore, operations in the former Yugoslavia have shown NATO's unique central role in the maintenance of

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security and stability in Europe. Nothing should be done that would undermine the alliance's military effectiveness. We cannot afford ambiguity or political gestures. We must say what we mean, and mean what we say.

There are other complex issues. NATO's relationship with Russia, the relationship between France and the alliance are important matters that need to be discussed frankly. I hope that the debate will not be sidetracked into theological argument. We should take note of developments on the ground. I welcome the involvement of French forces in operations in the former Yugoslavia, including in the proposed NATO implementation force; and I welcome the close co-operation between NATO and Russia, to the point where discussions are under way with the Russians on their possible participation in the implementation force.

In other words, the former Yugoslavia problem is obliging NATO to find practical solutions to the involvement of French forces, and to the question of relations with Russia, even though some of the institutional arguments remain unresolved.

At the time of this debate last year, the ceasefires in Northern Ireland had only just been announced. The security situation has improved dramatically since then, and the progress made during the past 12 months gives us hope. Every day without bombs is a gain; every month without bloodshed is a blessing. It may be that, month after month, the quiet momentum of peace will become unstoppable, and all men of good will must hope for that.

However, we cannot relax our guard. Terrorist organisations continue to train their members, and have significant stocks of weapons and explosives with which they could resume the violence at short notice. Nor has violence disappeared altogether from the streets of Northern Ireland: punishment attacks go on, and intimidation continues unabated in some areas. The marching season showed us that relations within the community remain highly volatile. There were arson attacks on churches, chapels and Orange halls throughout the Province. Those incidents are not to be compared with the large-scale terrorist atrocities of 18 months ago, but they cause fear in the population. They are not acceptable in a civilised society.

As always, the armed forces have adapted to the demands made of them in this sensitive period. Our first duty is to ensure the safety of the people of Northern Ireland. We have been able to respond to the improved conditions by relocating two major units to their home bases, and more relocations may become possible if peace continues to develop. Troops will accompany the RUC wherever it may encounter hostility, but in areas where routine support for police patrols has ceased many soldiers have now returned to barracks. That has allowed them to take part in exercises, both in the UK and abroad, and to train for their primary roles.

IRA-Sinn Fein has said that peace may break down if it does not get its way. If it does break down for that reason, IRA-Sinn Fein will not be forgiven. Our service men and women have done an outstanding job in Northern Ireland, and have shown great bravery and dedication. The task has fallen mainly to the younger soldiers--corporals and lance-corporals--who have had to make split-second decisions on which people's lives have depended. The

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qualities that they have displayed-- discipline, self-restraint and sheer professionalism--bring distinction to our armed forces. They will continue to work tirelessly in support of the RUC, and we shall remain vigilant until a secure and enduring settlement is in place. The five years since the end of the cold war have been years of upheaval, as we, with our allies, have adapted. Nuclear exchange today is much less likely, but we face increased uncertainty. We can expect continuing calls on the United Kingdom to support conflict prevention, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid missions--and, on occasion, to join a coalition to reverse unacceptable aggression. Those crises may arise with little or no notice. We cannot predict with certainty who will be involved in the response, but we can predict that those missions will arise some distance from the United Kingdom.

Over the past five years, we have reviewed our defence strategy. This year's statement sets out our intention to set a steady course for the future, building on the changes that we have made. It does not propose, as the Opposition motion does, another defence review. My Department has clear aims and objectives, which are set out in this year's statement. They are to ensure that we have in place the strategy and the defence capability needed to protect our security and that of our dependent territories; to contribute to the promotion of British interests overseas; and to help to maximise our international influence and prestige.

Mr. Alan Howarth (Stratford-on-Avon): The Secretary of State speaks of the need to safeguard British interests overseas, and also of the need for adaptation. Since I last asked him about it, has he reflected further on the serious problems that arise from our country's disproportionate commitment to the export of arms? Has he considered the miserable humanitarian consequences, and the destabilising geopolitical effects? Has he also considered the dangers to our economy of our shrunken manufacturing base being so dependent on a particular sector of the export market, which is itself shrinking? Will he accept Labour's proposal for a defence diversification agency--

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Morris): Order. The hon. Gentleman has been in the House long enough to know that an intervention consists of one question, not six.

Mr. Portillo: I note that the hon. Gentleman has become no less verbose following his transition to the Opposition. We are discussing the qualities, such as loyalty, that characterise our forces and it is interesting to see the hon. Gentleman rise in his place. I have reflected upon Britain's most successful industry in terms of exports, upon the rights of countries to provide for their self-defence and upon the marriage of those two interests. I have spoken about the right of countries to buy arms to defend themselves and a country that is well able to export defence material to them.

Mr. Llew Smith (Blaenau Gwent): The Minister speaks about Britain's successful arms industry. Does he regard as part of that success the fact that this country supplied arms to the former Yugoslavia which were almost certainly used in the recent conflict?

Mr. Portillo: Of course arms will be used by people when they think that they have to protect themselves--that is an inevitable consequence. I do not know whether

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the hon. Gentleman is one of the 37 signatories to the Opposition motion that calls for the cancellation of the Trident programme and the reduction of British defence spending to the average of the European Union. It was noticeable the week before last when the Labour party stage-managed its conference that it was able to avoid any debate on these matters. But as soon as Labour Members get back to Parliament the wild men take over. I am grateful to the right hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn) and his many allies in the House for showing the true face of Labour and its wish still to be a unilateral disarmer.

Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North): Before the Secretary of State leaves the subject of nuclear weapons and Trident, would he briefly explain to the House and the country why we are spending up to £30 billion on nuclear weapons that can destroy life and humanity as we know it? Against whom are these weapons fuelled and aimed? What is the great threat to this nation that requires a weapon that can destroy the planet?

Mr. Portillo: If it were within the rules of the House I would happily cede all my time to the hon. Gentleman to make a speech about nuclear disarmament so that our people could clearly understand that the policy of a vast tract of the Labour party is to get rid of nuclear weapons. There are now nuclear weapons states in the world and there will be more in future. Britain has provided a nuclear umbrella not only for her own defence but for the defence of Europe. Many countries have benefited from that umbrella and have enjoyed a peace that they would not otherwise have had. I should like the hon. Gentleman to make as many speeches as he can proclaiming that the true policy of the Labour party is to do away with that unilateral nuclear defence.

Dr. Robert Spink (Castle Point): While my right hon. Friend is reflecting on the Government's successful defence policy, and in particular the nuclear component of that policy, will he say whether the Government will continue to support our position as a permanent member of the UN Security Council? Will he also reflect on the fact that that lot on the Opposition Benches would put that in jeopardy?

Mr. Portillo: Of course I support continued membership: this Government always will. It is appropriate that Britain should play such a part in world affairs. It brings us great prestige and influence and heavy responsibilities which we are happy to fulfil. Several hon. Members rose --

Mr. Portillo: I shall give way to the hon. Member for Moray (Mrs. Ewing), who has been rising for some time, and then I should like to make some progress.

Mrs. Margaret Ewing (Moray): As the Secretary of State is concentrating on the nuclear issue and as the Government are signatories to the non-proliferation treaty, will he tell us in simple terms the Government's attitude to the French nuclear testing in the south Pacific? Do they have a yes or no attitude? I ask that particularly in the light of the Minister's scepticism towards Europe.

Mr. Portillo: If the world is to benefit from the nuclear umbrella that is provided by the taxpayers of Britain, France and the United States, it is important for the world to know that nuclear weapons are effective. That is how

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deterrence is achieved. We in Britain do not feel a need to test our weapons to have certainty about that, but we make no judgment about whether the French are in the same position. However, we applaud the fact that the French have made clear their intention to sign, after this series of tests, the comprehensive test ban treaty. This year's statement gives a full exposition of the policies about which I have been speaking. It makes clear that the proposals for restructuring our front- line forces under "Options for Change" are complete. To implement our policies, the fighting strength and capabilities of our front-line forces need to be maintained. If their commitment is reduced, we intend to use the resources that are released to help to reduce overstretch, to increase training for war and to support other high-priority tasks.

The Defence Select Committee rightly expressed concern about overstretch in our armed forces, drawing particular attention to the operational tour intervals in the Army and especially in the infantry. The Army is currently heavily committed to operations. Some 23 per cent. of the field Army is deployed on operations with another 10 per cent. preparing for or recovering from them. Because of that, this year we shall not be able to meet our target of an average operational tour interval of 24 months for infantry battalions. On the basis of current commitments, the average for 1995-96 will be 20 months.

I am conscious of the impact of that change on soldiers and the effect upon them of separation from their families and of uncomfortable living conditions. It is a tribute to our armed forces that those deprivations are endured without affecting morale or operational capability. But we are not complacent and our target for average tour intervals remains 24 months. I recognise that it would never be possible rigidly to enforce such guidelines. None the less, I hope that the House will welcome the assurance in this year's statement that even if, as we hope, the Northern Ireland situation allows us over time to reduce our commitment to the RUC, it will not lead to cuts in fighting units. The Government intend to commit to defence the funds that are needed to preserve and properly equip our front- line capabilities.

Mr. Tom King (Bridgwater): My right hon. Friend spoke about overstretch. He will be aware that one of the paradoxes of "Options for Change" was that while we were reducing the number of regiments we were concerned about demographic change and the reduction of about 30 per cent. in the age group pool from which we recruit. Even at the lower levels there could be considerable problems with recruitment, and recent news shows that that could continue to be a difficulty. Will my right hon. Friend or the Minister of State for the Armed Forces say what the Government intend to do to meet that recruitment challenge?

Mr. Portillo: My hon. Friend the Minister of State will be happy to deal with that but I should like to comment on it. There is a public perception that because the number of men in our armed forces has been reduced we do not need new recruits. I should like to take this opportunity to correct that impression. We do need recruits because we are not getting enough of them at the moment and the armed forces continue to offer a wonderful opportunity for young men and women. I hope that that opportunity will carry across the airwaves to young people who are thinking about a career in the services.

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My Department continues to drive down costs, eliminate waste and improve efficiency. Headquarters staff numbers will continue to decline dramatically. "Front Line First" will save more than £1 billion a year by the end of the century, and the Department's efficiency programme has produced over £3 billion of efficiency gains in the past 10 years.

The changes that have been set in hand will continue to have their effect over the next few years. There is exemplary commitment by the services and civil servants to driving down costs and a willingness to embrace change, even though it can be personally disruptive. We must grasp enthusiastically the opportunities to manage our defence effort better. "Front Line First" has shown how a rigorous approach can enable us to invest in modern and capable equipment.

The Tomahawk land attack missile provides a vivid example of the enhancements in capability that were made possible by the savings achieved through "Front Line First". I am pleased to announce that the required approvals have been granted by the United States Administration and Congress and that we are therefore today placing an order for the missile. Tomahawk offers a capability that is suited to the world that we now face. It can carry out long-range precision attacks against selected targets with minimum threat to our forces and a low risk of collateral damage. Its long range and high accuracy will give us a highly effective means of persuading a potential aggressor to desist from unacceptable activity.

Last July we announced our intention to establish a joint rapid deployment force. I can now provide some more detail. We foresee a greater demand in future for operations mounted quickly to demonstrate our national purpose or the will of the international community, to stabilise a rapidly deteriorating situation or to protect the interests of our people. The joint rapid deployment force will be a key part of that and we have set a number of goals for the force.

The force will be joint, bringing units from all three services together in an effective formation of up to reinforced brigade strength with supporting naval and air components. It will be able to undertake a broad spectrum of missions and will be capable of being used either as part of a national response to a crisis or as part of an international coalition, whether brought together by NATO, the Western European Union or the UN.

The force will be able to respond quickly, with units held at the necessary readiness and, in responding, it must be able to bring the right range of skills to bear. Those goals are demanding. Units assigned to the JRDF must be manned, trained and equipped to meet them. Most of all, they will need clear leadership--leaders who are able to bring together a wide range of skills with new ways of thinking and working where required.

An implementation team will be set up under a Royal Marines brigadier to establish the JRDF by 1 August next year. The force, once formed, will be under its own chief of operations. It will be based on a core formed of 5 Airborne Brigade and 3 Commando Brigade. It will be underpinned by our national contingency forces, from which units will be assigned to the JRDF in rotation.

Speed of deployment and mobility in theatre will be vital. The JRDF will be able to draw on RAF transport aircraft, assigned support and battlefield helicopters and

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our specialist amphibious shipping. We shall examine possible enhancements to that shipping and also the charter, lease or purchase of suitable civil shipping and cargo aircraft. The new force will greatly improve our ability to respond quickly and effectively to contingencies. Our goal is to create a force with the power to influence events.

Mr. Keith Mans (Wyre): What my right hon. Friend has said is welcome, but will he elaborate a little on where the

resources--manpower and money--are to come from? Is it simply a case of the existing forces of the three armed services having yet another role to perform?

Mr. Portillo: Clearly, I am not in a position today to make announcements on resources. I am talking about the process of bringing our armed forces up to date to meet the new range of threats in the world and ensuring that we train and man existing units for rapid deployment. Making available to our armed forces units that can be assigned quickly and deployed in theatre seems a welcome step forward.

Mr. David Shaw (Dover): Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that, if the new rapid deployment force is to be headed by a brigadier of the Royal Marines, there could be no better place to locate that force's headquarters than at the Royal Marines school of music in Deal, which, it has been announced, might be closing next April? Will he accept that Deal is probably the nearest place to any future theatre of war in which to locate such a headquarters and the fact that we have an airport--Manston airport--just up the road? It is a former RAF airport and could therefore be expanded and improved in times of emergency to deal with the activities of the Royal Marines--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I should hope that an hon. Member who expects the Marines to come back to his constituency will respond to a little discipline occasionally.

Mr. Portillo: My hon. Friend has been assiduous in representing his constituency on military matters and I congratulate him on getting in his bid so early.

Sir Geoffrey Johnson Smith (Wealden): I wish to pursue a little further the matter of the rapid deployment force. Does it involve the use of forces already stationed in Germany as part of the rapid reaction corps?

Mr. Portillo: I had not intended that.

Mr. Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock): The Secretary of State cannot dodge the question asked by two of his colleagues. We are dealing with defence estimates yet he says that he cannot state whether there are to be new resources for the rapid reaction force or whether we shall be recycling soldiers, sailors and airmen who are knackered.

Mr. Portillo: I answered the question but the hon. Gentleman was too busy preparing his next question to listen.

I have spoken of NATO's role in the former Yugoslavia. NATO is, and will be, the bedrock of our security. No other organisation can provide an effective security guarantee backed by the political and military structures to put it into effect. NATO has made it plain

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that its forces are available to support United Nations missions and it provides the vital link between Europe and North America. For NATO to work well, European countries must show their ability to work together and to pull their weight-- [Interruption.] --as I said at Blackpool last week. There are numerous European contributors to United Nations operations in Bosnia. Again as I said in Blackpool last week, we have found ourselves in combat alongside excellent forces from France and the Netherlands on the slopes of Mount Igman. Organisations other than NATO have much to contribute. This is an important time for the Western European Union, which is being developed to take on the tasks defined in the 1992 Petersburg declaration--humanitarian crises, disaster relief, peacekeeping and other crisis management missions. For this, we believe that the WEU needs to develop its operational capabilities so that it is able to mount effective operations. That will be a priority during our presidency of the WEU from next January.

The arrangements that are put in place must not, however, undermine NATO or the transatlantic link. Our goal is to build WEU capabilities that are compatible and not in competition with those of NATO. Those capabilities must be credible to the outside world and we must be able to rely on them to work in practice. We have therefore adopted an approach to the development of the WEU that examines tasks of which it should be capable and addresses the gaps that need to be filled. We want to build genuine military effectiveness.

We sincerely hope that the debate on defence at next year's intergovernmental conference will not get side-tracked into theological debate. Institutional tinkering cuts no ice with aggressors. No Bosnian Serb militiaman will be deterred by abstract talk of European defence vocations and perspectives.

Mr. Calum Macdonald (Western Isles) rose --

Mr. Portillo: I want to finish my point.

The Government's aims for the intergovernmental conference are clear in terms of what we want and what we cannot accept. Our yardstick will always be what is in the interests of Britain's and Europe's security. What we want is an intergovernmental conference which promotes a European Union that is outward-looking, not introspective, and which helps to build a practical European defence capability so that all European countries can take on their proper share in building security in their continent and further afield. As the Government say on page 17 of the defence estimates, however, what we cannot accept from the intergovernmental conference is a merger of WEU into the European Union. The European Union includes countries that are neutral, and it would be positively damaging to Europe's wider interests if we put in place new defence hurdles for prospective EU members in central and eastern Europe.

Nor, again as we said in the defence estimates, should there be in defence matters any of the involvement of the European Commission or the European Parliament that occurs elsewhere in the Union's structure. Decisions on the deployment of British armed forces must be taken by the sovereign British Government. No decisions should be taken that would limit our freedom to act in defence

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of British national interests. There is no justification for separate European armies which would be wasteful and which would undermine NATO.

Britain has a leading role to play in the world, for the benefit of our own people and for the good of the international community. We are a global power and an important European power. We can and will use our position to influence the development of Europe, not to create defence structures where the defence policies of individual nations are subjugated to a supranational European body, but to enable nation states to work together to build security and stability in Europe.

As we debate defence, let us not forget that our nation retains global reach. We will continue to be a major participant in world affairs, using our assets and experience for the benefit of the world community. We can draw on our long experience of political stability and a tradition of moderation. We are also a responsible nuclear power. We are a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. Uniquely, we are a leading member of NATO, the European Union and a Commonwealth that covers one third of the people of the earth.

In conditions very different from that of the cold war, we may need fewer men and women under arms, but their quality, their training and their equipment must remain world class.

5.41 pm

Dr. David Clark (South Shields): I beg to move, to leave out from "House" to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof: `declines to support the policy of the Government as set out in the Statement on the Defence Estimates 1995; condemns the continued instability in the armed forces caused by the Government's failure to establish a long-term strategic overview; notes that this undermines the morale and operational effectiveness of the United Kingdom's armed forces and fails to prepare the United Kingdom for the challenges of the post cold war world; calls upon the Government to establish a strategic defence review; deplores the way that United Kingdom defence capabilities and installations are being run down in an unstructured way instead of the Government seeking to manage the worst effects of change on communities and individuals through a defence diversification agency; urges a positive approach in the negotiation of a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty and the immediate ratification of the Chemical Weapons Convention; condemns the Government's financial mismanagement and waste in defence; congratulates the excellent work carried out by British forces throughout the world and expresses pride in their continuing presence in United Nations peacekeeping operations.'.

I want to begin my comments in this annual debate on defence in a consensual manner and pay tribute to the men and women who have worn the uniforms of our armed forces with such distinction. I want to link with them the civilians who work with the Ministry of Defence, but whose work so often goes unrecognised. In paying tribute to the skill, resolution and sheer professionalism of those men and women, I am conscious that they operate in 24 countries throughout the world and also in Northern Ireland, and that they are away from their families for too long a period.

I am especially conscious of the good work that those men and women have done in Bosnia. Like the Secretary of State, I have witnessed that, but many people in this country are not aware of the value and extent of their work in bringing together communities and helping new civilian regimes to emerge. I know that at this moment,

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when they are likely to swap their blue berets and helmets of the United Nations for the steel helmets of NATO, their task may become even more dangerous--but that task will be all the more necessary if we are to effect a peace in that nation.

This year of 1995, as we recall the victories in Europe and Japan against fascism 50 years ago, is an especially poignant year. The ceremonies marking VE and VJ days gave us all an opportunity to express our thanks to those who played their part in securing those victories. It is appropriate to remind ourselves that we have a duty to ensure that the sufferings and sacrifices were not in vain. Indeed, as we view the events of 50 years ago from our modern day vantage point, one fact is often overlooked, even though it is so strikingly obvious--that for centuries until 1945, European countries had fought each other as a matter of course. Now, it is inconceivable that Britain would go to war with Germany, that France would wage war with Spain and that the people of Belgium, Holland and Denmark would fear the military might of Germany. The reason for the changed position and the current stability is, quite simply, the creation of international institutions such as NATO and the EEC, now the European Union.

That may be an obvious statement, but I regret that the Secretary of State appeared not to take it on board. I thought that his speech today was largely reasoned; I thought it subdued. It was not so much a tactical retreat as a rout. I do not know who brought pressure to bear upon the right hon. Gentleman, but certainly wiser counsels have prevailed and the House has benefited from that.

However, I must make the point that at last week's Conservative party conference, the Secretary of State caused offence to and angered many people in this country. In his speech he delivered what I regarded as one of the most disgracefully nationalistic rants that I have ever had the great displeasure to hear. I was simply appalled to learn that his speech had not only been approved by the Prime Minister, but had his full and enthusiastic support. The Prime Minister must take the blame for the damage caused by that speech, both at home and abroad.

That speech did do damage. At home, it attracted criticism from Lord Howe, Sir Leon Brittan and the former Chief of the Defence Staff, Lord Carver [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Davyhulme (Mr. Churchill) may laugh at the former Chief of the Defence Staff, but the Opposition believe that his opinion is worth listening to. Abroad, there was criticism--some might say expected--from the European Commission, through its President Mr. Santer. However, I recall that it is the same Jacques Santer who was the Prime Minister's chosen man--the right man, at the right time, in the right place. He is the Prime Minister's chosen man, but he could not take the Secretary of State's speech.

I know that the right hon. Gentleman has tried to excuse his speech as a knockabout conference floor piece of oratory, but that cannot obscure the menace and danger that it harboured. We needed only to listen to his jingoistic tirade to realise how misguided is his idea of the role of the armed forces.

Mr. Bill Walker (Tayside, North): The hon. Gentleman may be interested to know that during my

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period of service I never met any British service man who was doing other than serving for Britain. I never met any French service man who was doing other than serving for France. The same was true for other countries. Indeed, the German prisoners who were under me also said that they were fighting for Germany.

Dr. Clark: I do not really follow the hon. Gentleman's point. We are objecting to the way in which the Secretary of State abused his position and twisted and abused the values of patriotism that are held dear by Members on both sides of the House. It is an affront to the House to see the national flag of this country used so recklessly to further the political ambitions of one man.

Mr. Portillo: I was waiting for the hon. Gentleman to come to the point because I was not sure to which part of my speech he was objecting. I have now discovered that it is his view that I abused patriotism. I did not make the sort of speech made by the Leader of the Opposition about VJ day. I did not stand up and say that on VJ day I observed many veterans on the march calling out that they were Labour supporters. I would have thought that any man who aspires to be the leader of this country and attends a major national ceremony, but who comes away from it to tell his conference that he saw only Labour voters--where the rest of us saw veterans and heroes--has a lot to learn.

Dr. Clark: The right hon. Gentleman should realise that patriotism does not mean that we hate our enemies and it does not mean that we are anti-foreign.

It is not only the Opposition, eminent people and the general public who have been offended by the right hon. Gentleman's outburst; the armed forces are seething about his speech. One senior officer is reported to have described it as a prostitution of the armed forces reputation in the name of short-term political gain. To try to hijack the courage and commitment of the SAS for the right hon. Gentleman's self-seeking Rambo-style propaganda shows the depths to which he will go.

Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford): The hon. Gentleman said that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had raised nationalistic issues concerning European defence and the formation of a European army. Does he agree with the remarks by Chancellor Kohl on 20 September when he said that he intended that there should be a defence union in Europe by 1999? Does he consider that to be a relevant threat?

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