| Previous Section | Home Page |
Mr. Clarke: I thought that the Minister might have given credit to my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) for his Act. The Minister referred to the 1986 Act--why was half that Act implemented by Lady Thatcher's Government but not one finger raised to implement the rest under the present Prime Minister?
Mr. Burt: As the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea, will say when he winds up the debate, that is largely because the community care provisions have taken the provisions of that Act a considerable distance.
In 1988, the disabled persons transport committee produced a recommended specification for buses used to operate local services--a further development for transport. The independent living fund was also introduced in 1988. In 1989, all new licensed taxis in London were required to be wheelchair accessible. The National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990 promoted development of domiciliary, day and respite services in an entirely novel way. In that same year, income-related benefits were increased above the inflation rate on premiums for the long-term sick and disabled and the child disablement premium more than doubled.
Mobility allowance was extended to deaf blind people in April 1990 and to amputees in April 1991. In the same year, a consultative document was produced on employment and training for people with disabilities. It took stock of current provision and informed further decisions into the 1990s.
In 1991-92, there was a reorganisation of specialist disability services in employment through locally based placing, assessment and counselling teams. The Further
Column 563
and Higher Education Act 1992 consolidated previous legislation and laid a specific duty on local education authorities and the Further Education Funding Council to have regard to the requirements of people with learning difficulties in securing further education provision. In April 1992, the disability living allowance was introduced to amalgamate help already available to people and extend help for the first time to 350,000 less severely disabled people who had previously been unable to qualify.I could continue, but now the balance of my speech has been affected simply by listing those achievements. I did so solely to show that in the House, as a whole, there is a common determination to work for disabled people. The work of the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe has been supplemented by that of many hon. Members from both sides of the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton, North-East (Mr. Thurnham) has done tireless work since he entered the House, as has my hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Sir J. Hannam). Work on disability has been carried on by many hon. Members in the House.
I fully accept the achievements of previous Labour Governments and the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe, when he was the first Minister for the Disabled. But Conservatives can stand proudly on our record for disabled people; we have done and are doing a great deal. I bow to no one in my admiration for what we have tried to do and the provision that we have made. I hope that, when the speeches are read in Hansard , proper tribute will be paid to the achievements of my colleagues. Perhaps I have given a slightly more balanced picture of what has been achieved over the years.
Since the 1970 Act, we can identify key engines of change. First, as I said earlier, the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe pioneered an acceptance of the view that disabled people do best away from institutionalised care and should be given the support that they need to sustain independent living in their own homes wherever possible. They should certainly be treated as integral and valued members of communities.
Secondly, the explosion of technology has assisted. Not only has it helped with the development of more sophisticated aids and equipment, housing adaptations and environmental controls, but such technological advance has opened up many more job opportunities for disabled people.
Thirdly, there has been a development of the political and economic influence of disabled people, and of organisations of and for them. Those developments have often been assisted by what the Government have been asking for in terms of consultation and listening to people. We have stimulated the creation of such groups, which we fully support.
Fourthly, advances in medical science have prevented disabling conditions occurring in the first place, ameliorated their effects and prolonged life. Rehabilitation techniques have been developed which aim to move people who are disabled through illness, accident or trauma through the health services and into independent living, education and employment. We should all pay tribute to those in the medical profession--doctors and those who care for patients after surgical treatment--for their tremendous work.
Column 564
Lastly, we have seen the health and community care reforms, which evolved from long-standing trends in social care and which have encouraged fundamentally new ways of doing things. The reforms reinforced the historical movement away from institutionalised care towards supporting people in their own homes. They were further important points on the continuum of change from 1948 through 1970 to 1991 and beyond. They have strengthened the concept of needs assessment and better focusing of services and have given primacy to the needs and preferences of users and their carers.A further major development of which the community care reforms are a manifestation is the acceptance--encapsulated in "The Health of the Nation" strategy--that health and welfare are no longer the narrowly defined provinces of the Departments of Health and of Social Security, nor are they only matters for health commissioners and providers and social services departments. Health and well-being are about addressing the holistic needs of disabled and vulnerable people. The challenge is for agencies covering health, social care, housing, employment, education, leisure and a host of others to work together at the levels of central and local government and the community. The challenge is enormous and progress is critical to the continuing development of our policies and services. Again, I am sure that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary will wish to say more about that in the context of the recently announced community care development programme.
I should now turn briefly to what we believe is a further milestone on the road to full integration of disabled people: the Disability Discrimination Bill. I understand that there has been much debate about the Bill, and we shall return to it shortly when it returns from another place. Although we do not all agree on every detail of the Bill, I think there is wide acknowledgement that it will be a giant step towards ending discrimination against disabled people. The Bill provides an armoury of weapons to tackle discrimination. For the first time, it will be unlawful to discriminate against a disabled person who is looking for a job; it will be unlawful to discriminate against a disabled person in the provision of goods, facilities and services; and it will be unlawful to discriminate against a disabled person trying to buy or rent a house or let an office or a business.
There are extensive powers to set access standards for new buses, trains and taxis. Education providers will have to furnish more information about the access arrangements that they make for disabled pupils and students. Finally, the National Disability Council will be created as an independent voice for disabled people to ensure that the Government are kept informed of how well existing measures to end discrimination are working and to recommend further steps where necessary.
Mr. Tom Clarke: I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way, as he has done on several occasions. He has outlined the main objectives of the Disability Discrimination Bill and he will be aware that another place overturned the Government's view on the issue of definition. It would be very helpful if the Minister would explain the Government's thinking in that regard. We
Column 565
would welcome the Government's acceptance of the view of the other place, which reflects the overwhelming opinion of organisations for disabled people.Mr. Burt: Following the reverse in another place, the Government made it clear that we would be seeking a reversal of that decision here.
Mr. Burt: It is not disgraceful. We believe that it would extend the definition far too widely. Next week, I am to meet hon. Members from both sides of the House to discuss the matter further, so I shall reserve my judgment until then. However, it would be wrong for me to suggest that our intention is any different from what I have said and from what the Government said at the time.
Mr. Dalyell: I feel rather like the bad fairy for making this intervention. The Minister referred to the legislation concerning taxis. I have caught many taxis in New Palace Yard and taxi drivers often ask me what we are doing introducing legislation that will make it much more expensive for them when they might be asked to provide disabled facilities only once or twice a year. I do not know whether that is true, but that is what I am told.
Taxi drivers also say that any disabled person who wishes to travel by taxi could telephone for a taxi and the facilities would be laid on. It does not seem very sensible to impose such facilities on every taxi in the city. I am interested to hear what the Government have to say about that.
Mr. Burt: I am tempted to let the hon. Member for
Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Howarth) deal with that intervention. Why should a disabled person be prevented from hailing a taxi on the street when a person in any other condition could hail the first taxi with a yellow light, climb in and travel to his or her destination? Why should disabled people believe that they cannot hail taxis like anyone else? We have drawn a distinction between the taxi and the private hire vehicle, but it goes to the concept of rights: that public facility is available for everyone else and a disabled person should not feel any different. It is important that disabled people should be able to hail taxis on the street and our legislation gives effect to that. I do not wish to pursue the matter further now and I think that the hon. Gentleman's colleagues would agree with my general sentiment.
Mr. Dalyell: Taxi drivers tell me that they are seldom hailed by disabled people.
Mr. John Austin-Walker (Woolwich): Because they cannot get into the taxis.
Mr. Dalyell: That may be the answer, but I think that it is important to set the matter straight.
Mr. Burt: Not for the first time, the hon. Gentleman's intellectually honest intervention helps the House considerably. I take his point, but in a sense his colleagues have answered his question: disabled people will not hail a taxi if they believe that they will be rebuffed. They do not want to hear the bloke in the taxi say, "Can't take you, guv." The Government have introduced that provision to ensure that all people have equal rights.
In short, I believe that the Bill's provisions commit us all to the creation of a fair, open and accessible environment for disabled people. I wish to take up the
Column 566
brief intervention of the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) in relation to Parliament. The Bill will require Parliament to be subject to its provisions regarding access, whereas the civil rights legislation did not make that requirement. I sincerely hope that disabled facilities in the House will improve in the meantime. I listened to the hon. Gentleman's exchange this afternoon with my right hon. Friend the Lord President, who I know intends to take up the matter. The legislation will apply to Parliament and assist with rights of access there. I hope that that is good news.Mr. Skinner: As the Minister is in a conciliatory mood--and because he might be able to do something--will he ensure that microphone facilities are available for meetings? That is another problem. There will be further meetings, and in November a large lobby of disabled people will come to Parliament. They have asked me by letter--I have forwarded the letter to the Minister and he will see it shortly--to ensure that a portakabin is provided, as there are no proper toilet facilities for disabled people outside Parliament, and the facilities are not too good inside either.
Mr. Burt: I heard the hon. Gentleman's exchange with my right hon. Friend the Lord President this afternoon and I know that he takes those matters extremely seriously. We shall both talk to the House authorities about the facilities available to see what improvements might be made in time for the November lobby. I suspect that the problem with microphones might have had something to do with the fact that the House was sitting at the time of the meeting, but I really do not know enough about the matter. It is not my position to answer those questions, but I take the hon. Gentleman's point. As Minister for Social Security and Disabled People, it is within my remit to ask questions and to try to do what I can, and I shall certainly do that.
Despite my short spell so far as Minister for disabled people, I have already met representatives of a large number of disability organisations. Whatever their justifiable position, they have all emphasised the importance of pressing ahead to implement the Bill once it has received the Royal Assent. I have been happy to reassure them that their hopes in that regard exactly match the Government's intention. I have been equally pleased to concur with their view that the successful implementation of the legislation will demand close co-operation between the Government, business and, above all, disabled people and their representatives.
Looking forward to the near future, my colleagues and I in government will be taking forward the objectives actively. The nuts and bolts of the legislation will be the detailed regulations, codes of practice and guidance. We shall begin before the end of the year by consulting widely on drafts of an employment code of practice and a guide explaining in practical terms what is meant by "disability" as defined in the Bill. The aim will be to complete the consultation and lay final versions of the code and the guide before Parliament in time for the employment rights to take effect by the end of 1996. In the new year, I expect to have set up the National Disability Council. I shall be asking the council, as one of its first tasks, to prepare a draft code of practice on the first rights of access to goods and services that we plan to implement towards the end of 1996. Those rights will
Column 567
ensure that disabled people are not refused service or offered a lower standard of service because of their disability.At the same time as the council publishes its draft code for consultation, I expect to consult on a draft timetable for implementing the remaining rights of access. Those rights will require reasonable changes to practices which make access impossible or unreasonably difficult, the provision of auxiliary aids to facilitate access and the removal of physical barriers where an inaccessible service cannot be provided by a reasonable alternative means.
That dual consultation exercise will be the first of what I expect to be many examples of a close relationship between the Government and the council.
Disabled people and business will require a lot of information about the legislation. I confirm that we shall set up at least a telephone information line to meet those needs. We plan to discuss with disabled people and business how best to design that service. We shall also need mechanisms to resolve disputes. The services of the Advisory Conciliation and Arbitration Service will be available to help resolve disputes about the new employment rights. We have already announced our intention of creating a special support service to help sort out disputes arising under the rights of access to goods and services in the Bill.
We envisage a service that would provide expert assistance to existing local advice points. Again, discussions with service providers and disabled people will be necessary before we finalise the details. We have not been able to go as far as we would have liked by now, as a number of organisations were not in a position fully to discuss the matter with us. When the Bill is enacted--we hope that it will be soon--we will be able to take the matter further. I regard it as an important part of ensuring that the Bill has the effectiveness and the teeth that Conservative Members want it to have. Opposition Members believe that it can work only in a different way, but I am determined to secure it in this way.
Nobody knows what the future holds, but I am confident that the measures will lead to much greater awareness of the abilities and aspirations of disabled people. The Bill will help positively to change people's attitudes and actions and allow the nation to benefit from the skills and abilities that disabled people have previously been denied the opportunity to display.
I hope that the House will continue to serve disabled people well, and in that we shall remember the contribution for a long time made by the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe.
8.21 pm
Ms Liz Lynne (Rochdale): I, too, welcome the Minister to his new post. I also welcome the chance to debate the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, which is a reminder of the progress that disabled people have made and of the work that remains to be done to secure full equal rights for them.
Looking back, it is almost unbelievable that politicians were so dismissive of disabled people. Between 1959 and 1964, there was not one debate in the House on disabled people. The 1951 Ministry of Health guidance to local authorities was not revised for the following 19 years.
Column 568
Before the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, many disabled people were treated not as second-class citizens but more as non-people without any rights. Before the Act, we did not really know how many disabled people there were in Britain. We are still a bit hazy about it, but at least we have a figure--6.5 million. The Minister for Education at the time even inquired why the right hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) wanted to help young people and children with dyslexia. He said that the condition simply did not exist.Before the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act was implemented there was no right to cash benefits for disabled people. Non-contributory benefits as a right were barely contemplated. Local authority services were discretionary and often non-existent. Against that background, the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe introduced his Bill, and I salute him for doing so. His measure challenged the arrogant and complacent people in the House who would not give disabled people their rights. It challenged the complacency of Richard Crossman, the then Labour Secretary of State for Social Services, who I understand tried to get the right hon. Gentleman to drop his Bill--thank goodness for independent Back Benchers who are willing to stand up to Ministers. I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman again.
Mr. Dalyell: The hon. Lady is going over the top. I was the late Richard Crossman's PPS. It was not a question of complacency: there were real difficulties. I am not making a party point as the Conservative party at that time was represented by a man called Richard Wood who had a wooden leg. Many hon. Members on both sides of the House certainly did not regard the disabled as non-people. The hon. Lady should be careful about using extreme language. Of course there were matters that my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) put right, but the hon. Lady should not condemn everybody at that time.
Ms Lynne: The right hon. Member for Wythenshawe fought to ensure that the Bill was enacted and, according to what I have read, Richard Crossman tried to get him to drop the Bill. It is on the record and, despite what the hon. Gentleman says, it is there in black and white.
Thank goodness for independent Back Benchers who fight against Ministers. That is what is happening now. Some Conservative Members are fighting Ministers to get more services for disabled people.
Mr. Dalyell: I cannot let this go. I was Crossman's PPS. If the hon. Lady is going to raise the subject, I have the right to put the record straight. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe was asked to drop the Bill, but on the assumption that the Government would introduce a Bill of their own. That Labour Government were not heartless.
Ms Lynne: That sounds exactly like what happened last year when the Government wanted hon. Members to drop the Civil Rights (Disabled Persons) Bill because they were introducing their own Disability Discrimination Bill. I cannot see any difference.
As the Liberal Democrat social security and disability spokesperson, I should like to express my admiration of the work of the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and of his initial decision, his vision and his courage. Hon. Members on both sides of the House should respect him for introducing such a wide-ranging Bill, which, for the
Column 569
first time, established rights for disabled people. He has continued to fight alongside members of all political parties for civil rights for disabled people and I certainly hope that we will succeed.The Act is a reminder of what can be done. It imposed new duties on 12 Departments of state and amended 39 Acts of Parliament. One or more sections of it have been used by 12 million disabled people. It has also been an inspiration to other countries. In 1970 we led the world in disability legislation. In 1995, even after the implementation of the Government's Disability Discrimination Bill, we shall lag behind a number of countries.
Mention must be made of the implementation of the Act. Local councils have difficulty in meeting their statutory duties under the Act, especially since the Community Care (Residential Accommodation) Act 1993, and it is not reaching the people for whom it was intended. We must fully implement the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act and provide full civil rights for disabled people. That is what we are seeking.
The Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act awakened the aspirations of disabled people and now, 25 years later, we need to push the frontiers further to build on what has been achieved and carry on the just fight for equal rights for disabled people. 8.29 pm
Mr. Patrick Nicholls (Teignbridge): When I saw this debate on the Order Paper, it struck me that it would be one of those relatively rare occasions when there would be agreement in principle in all parts of the House--that although there would be a difference of emphasis, there would be a high degree of consensus, and that has emerged.
The hon. Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke) took exception to what he viewed as filibustering by some of my hon. Friends. I can understand why he felt that way on entering the Chamber. As someone who had sat through the previous debate and tried to make a point of order, I must tell him that passions were running high. If he does not accept my judgment, when he reads Hansard in the morning he will see that passions were running high. My point of order was certainly not bogus, although it might have been a trifle optimistic. I assure him that there was no attempt to filibuster.
Although I do not profess to have the expertise of the right hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) or of my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton, North-East (Mr. Thurnham), long before I entered the House I was aware that among its pioneers was the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe. I was aware of him not only because of his own efforts but because my local Member of Parliament at that time was my hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Sir J. Hannam). There have probably been times beyond number when the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and my hon. Friend have acted in concert--very often in the same Lobby, while I was acting in concert in a different Lobby. Anyone who takes an interest in politics knows that the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe has completely changed the nature of the debate, for the reasons mentioned tonight. If we disagree now, it is only over how far and how quickly one can go.
Mr. Alfred Morris: I have received a note from the hon. Member for Exeter (Sir J. Hannam) saying that
Column 570
although he had hoped to speak in this debate, his flu and throat infection have grown worse and his voice is not up to it. As the hon. Gentleman said, the hon. Member for Exeter (Sir J. Hannam) has worked long and hard, with great distinction, over many years.Mr. Nicholls: I am sure that my hon. Friend will be happy to read those remarks. It was typical of the right hon. Gentleman that he made them.
Most Conservatives would say that the duty of the state is to look after people who cannot look after themselves, but to let everybody else get on with it. If ever there was a section of society that needs help, it is disabled people. It is said to be a moral issue, and it is. It is not so much about granting rights, which are integral, but about not withholding rights that our fellow citizens should have.
In my three years as a junior Employment Minister, I learnt that it is not only morally right to help disabled people to make the most of their potential in the workplace but that it makes good economic sense as well. For a relatively modest outlay, one can create the means for somebody to achieve their human potential and make an economic contribution as well. That was not my direct responsibility, but any hon. Member who has served in a Government will know that Ministers often double up for colleagues. I was constantly amazed that employers had not realised the amount of help available in the provision of facilities for the disabled, or had not put themselves in the position of others. What a difference that can make. Although it makes good moral and economic sense to help disabled people, that sometimes involves massive expenditure. Some people might argue that one could not spend money on anything better, but anyone who has seen a Chief Secretary labour in a Government of either political complexion realises that it is not as easy as one might think. This year, the amount spent on helping disabled people will rise to £19.5 billion, which is a substantial sum, and money does not grow on trees.
My hon. Friend the Minister made the point that there is no monopoly on compassion on either side of the House. To do the best that can be done, the economy must be run in such a way that it generates the required tax revenues. I do not say this in a combative way, but it is of direct relevance to the prospects of disabled people to generate the sort of money required. Constituents often write to me saying that the Government have free access to money and have only to produce some new money.
People write to me every day saying that their demands are perfectly straightforward and can be delivered by the
Government--decreased taxation for them but increased expenditure in the areas of their choice. The Government are required to square that circle. Every penny that we spend on any worthwhile endeavour ultimately comes from the pockets of, for the most part, ordinary working people. Their numbers, for reasons that we need not examine this evening, are decreasing. Even as we speak, there are about 3.8 workers--in the sense of taxpayers--for every pensioner. By 2010, that figure will have fallen to 2.4 workers. We must face and wrestle with the implications. Even under this Government, taxation is too high. Whichever party is in power as we move into the next century, the decreasing body of taxpayers will place a limit on how much they are prepared to spend.
Some people may argue that the way to square the circle and help the disabled is to soak the rich--a proposal usually advanced by people who will not be among the
Column 571
contributors. However, 89 per cent. of this country's tax revenues are generated by basic rate taxpayers. The hope that a crock of gold will be available from a future Government, to be tapped in a meaningful way to make a significant difference, will never materialise.When I was in America in 1987, I spoke to a doctor about fibre-optic bypass. He told me that the technology was fast arriving to help people who fracture their spinal column--for example, in a riding accident. Provided the area of trauma is localised by applying dry ice or using other specialised techniques, it should be possible to introduce a fibre-optic bypass which, with a powerpack, should enable the injured person to function. I said to the doctor that such technology must be years ahead but he said it was only 10 to 15 years ahead. He said, "How will you function when you encounter a row of paraplegics in wheelchairs outside your constituency surgery? If your wife, son or daughter was in a wheelchair today, you would not say that you were sorry, but that public sector constraints are such that you cannot find the £10 million needed for the disabled." He was right. I would not say that to a member of my family.
That technology may not be with us yet, but when it comes it will put a great strain on the resources of the Government of the day. Some pretty hard choices will have to be made. Although cliches make people groan, their good feature is that they fulfil a useful task because they usually encapsulate a truth, the sight of which is all too easy to lose. Against that background, I say that it will be a question of balance. That will always be the position when it comes to determining the amount that we can afford to expend. We must also consider how far we can take the public with us.
In that sense I was much impressed by the remarks of the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell). As my hon. Friend the Minister said, the hon. Gentleman is an honourable man who is capable of bringing us up with a jolt in ways that we do not expect. He referred to London taxis. I think that I am right in saying--this is the figure in my mind--that only three of 100,000 taxi rides in London are taken by disabled people. An argument quickly developed.
Those who take what might be considered to be a cynical attitude might have thought that the hon. Gentleman was a hard-hearted Tory and that my hon. Friend the Minister, in fulfilling a most unusual task for him, was a warm- hearted liberal. But the point was made. In effect, there were two debates. There was the human-right approach of saying, "I may want only to make the occasional trip in a taxi but why cannot I hail a cab like anyone else?" There was also the question of practicality. A London cab driver would have to have an extremely expensive piece of equipment. I am told that it would be the equivalent--taxi drivers talk a great deal when one rides in their cabs--of taking out a large mortgage on a house. We must examine the morality, if that it can be called, of forcing taxi drivers, for example, to kit up to such an extent when the facility may not be used.
I have in mind two examples that I am sure are mirrored in constituencies throughout the country. Two buildings in my constituency, to which the public have access, had to have a substantial lift for disabled people as a condition of planning permission. So far, so good.
Column 572
We can all agree with that provision because it sounds entirely right. However, the lifts have never been used. In one instance, for reasons that I shall not go into on the Floor, it would be inconceivable that a lift designed for use by disabled people would ever be used. In the other instance, there has been no call for the lift. That lift has not been hidden away. That can be said in both instances. Indeed, the owners of the premises, having spent the money on the lifts, say, "Would it not be a good thing if the lifts could be used?"The attitude of the business men who had to install the lifts has not been affected. We should pause to reflect, however. Is there an argument that will have to be taken on board in due course? It is that there is a human right to use such a lift if a disabled person wants to do so. In the end, however, are we entitled to say that it does not matter whether the lift is used, or may never be used, because a point of principle is involved? Points of principle are easier to establish in the end if someone else is paying the bill. What I am about to say might be judged as slightly opportunistic. If it is, perhaps my hon. Friend the Minister will write. I received visits this week, as well as letters, from representatives of Mencap. They are drawing attention to the fact that they are about to be charged for the provision of day services by local authorities. Letters are outstanding from my hon. Friend the Minister on that subject. I do not at present understand the practicalities. It would be interesting to know more about the matter.
The idea that there is a monopoly of compassion in one area is one that ultimately would not attract support. When there is an almost empty Chamber, it is sometimes tempting to ask, "Who takes an interest in what we say?" I have sometimes been heartened and on other occasions warmed by the number of people who write to tell me that they have read my contributions to debates in Hansard . For those who take an interest in these matters, the reading of a Hansard debate will be as interesting if the Chamber is poorly attended or is full. There is no doubt about that. We must take into account the reputation of the House and the confidence of our constituents that we are fulfilling a useful function.
Although the debate has not been without humour and a degree of point scoring, that has not been the entirety. I speak from a Conservative perspective even though there is a high degree of consensus. I suppose that the best statement of what I regard as my position and of what might be achieved might read as follows: "In the field of social security the Conservatives can offer a decent prospect for the future because Conservatives have policies that will prevent inflation eating up social benefits and foster new prosperity to pay for better welfare. Conservatives are committed to a fair society and a caring society. Conservatives have greatly improved help for the most vulnerable people in our society. The poorest pensioners' incomes have risen 15 per cent. and 5 million pensions will receive cash increases of about 10 per cent." Those are matters of fact and not of partisan point scoring in the sense that one is denying that others would have sufficient compassion. The statements that are contained within the quotation encapsulate two vital features. First, they accept that Conservatives are as committed as the members of any other party would be to do their best to care for people for whom they have a responsibility as fellow citizens. Secondly, we have enough confidence in our fiscal policies to think that we are generating taxable income.
Column 573
It is often said that plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery. I suppose that politicians are wont to raid one another's speeches to find elegant words to make particular points. I think that the words that I have quoted are magnificent. They stand as a fine testament and they are as valid now as when they were included in the previous two election addresses of the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Howarth).8.47 pm
Mr. Colin Pickthall (Lancashire, West): First, I add my congratulations to my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) on his Bill as it then was, which was 25 years ago, and on the 25 years of consistent work that he has since done. It is a delight to see him still slogging away at it. I congratulate the Minister on his new job and on escaping from his previous one. He looks extremely happy about that escape. In his absence, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke) on his new post in the shadow Cabinet. It is a significant appointment, and a symbolic one.
The Minister was right to say that we, the Opposition, cannot claim all the credit. Not even my right hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe can do that. Equally, the Government cannot claim credit for all the advances that have been made in responding to the needs of disabled people in the past two decades.
The greatest credit should go to disabled people. They have been battling away, especially during the past few years, to find new ways of publicising what they are doing. They have been securing tremendous public support. The same can be said of carers. Disabled people and carers have been lobbying, writing letters and generally making sure that Members know what is going on and are aware of the pressures they face. They have also been chaining themselves to buses and been rescued by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner).
There is no doubt that advances have been made in upholding and extending the rights of disabled people. Unfortunately, many questions remain unanswered. I hope that they will be taken up by the next Labour Government. I have in mind the question that was put to me yesterday--not for the first time--in my constituency by Rene Harding, who attended a lobby at Parliament. Why should she, on becoming a pensioner at 60 years of age, have her carer's allowance removed? She looks after her adult daughter, who is severely disabled and a wheelchair user. Rene has to do everything for her daughter. When Rene is getting on in years and finding these tasks ever harder, she is deemed by the system not to need so much help. That is a farce and an insult. There are many quirks within the benefit system on which we must continue to concentrate with a view to ironing them out.
The lobby that Rene Harding attended focused on local authority charging policies for day care centres, and the failure of Government properly to fund care in the community. Those who attended were confronted by an illustration of what disabled people face. That has already been referred to by my hon. Friends the Members for Monklands, West and for Bolsover. I shall mention it briefly, because I believe that it is a matter for Madam Speaker rather than the Minister.
Column 574
A great deal of effort was made to assist the people attending the lobby. Although they could not use the Grand Committee Room, which they had booked, they managed to secure Westminster Hall, which was set up as a proper lobby, with Doorkeepers, a green card system, chairs, gas heaters to make the place vaguely habitable, and so on. The staff of the House did a great deal, as did hon. Members, to assist.I witnessed the hon. Member for Rochdale (Ms Lynne), who managed more or less to make herself heard, unlike some others. Hon. Members had to bellow to make themselves heard to many people who were hard of hearing, among other problems. It was simply impossible to be heard. I believe that the ruling that a public address system cannot be used in Westminster Hall is a matter for the Speaker, and so I place it on record and hope that Madam Speaker will look at that and ensure that it does not happen again in future.
I want to make one rather specialist point: it is rather different from what has been raised before. My colleagues, and Conservative Members, have made the case on behalf of disabled people extremely cogently, but during the debates on the Disability Discrimination Bill and the private Member's Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes), we returned again and again to discrimination against those who have the reputation of being disabled. In particular, it was of concern to many Labour Members that perfectly capable people could be discriminated against because of, say, genetic conditions--being HIV positive and many other reasons.
It was clear that employers and others can and do discriminate against such people on the grounds that they might at some stage in future be ill or require time off. That seemed to us not only unfair in itself, but something that prevents people from being productive. It prevents them from being independent individuals, and forces them into dependency. During Report stage of the Disability Discrimination Bill, my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Howarth) raised a new dimension when he pointed out that diabetes could be included in the argument.
That struck a strong chord with me, because I happen to be an insulin- dependent diabetic. Up until that point--at my advanced age--I had never thought of myself as disabled, although I must say that, shortly after being elected in 1992, I was contacted by the makers of a television programme, who said that they were making a feature programme on disabled Members of Parliament, and wanted me to participate on behalf of the Labour party. I was somewhat surprised, and declined, telling them that I was not disabled and that there must be some mistake. Since then, I have had cause to rethink the matter, partly thanks to my hon. Friend here.
There are many aspects of diabetes that do not properly fit into this debate, and I shall not weary the House with them. It is important, however, to remind the House that diabetes affects about 2 per cent. of the population of the United Kingdom. There are 750,000 diagnosed, and an estimated 250,000 undiagnosed, diabetics. Some 18, 000 of those diagnosed are under 20, and therefore have to live the remainder of their lives with the condition. Some 60,000 new cases are diagnosed each year. Of all cases, about a quarter are insulin-dependent.
The difficulty of the condition, briefly, is that the diabetic has to balance an artificial intake of insulin with diet and exercise. Getting the balance wrong can lead to
Column 575
hypoglycaemia--a sudden reduction of blood sugar levels, which can affect brain and body co-ordination, sometimes quite badly. It can also lead to hyperglycaemia, which is less dangerous but can be very damaging over time. Obviously, these can be serious disabilities and can lead to terrible complications, such as kidney failure, amputations, heart disease and so on in the longer term.The health service and many individuals put a great deal of time and care into ensuring that the correct balance is maintained and that these problems do not arise. The types of insulin and their method of delivery have been immensely improved over time, particularly in the past 20 years, and knowledge and expertise are much greater.
The key point is that a well-balanced diabetic has regular blood and eye checks, has a better diet, tends to take more sensible exercise--I do not include myself in all this, by the way--and is acutely aware--nor do I include myself in this--of his or her body, its failings and functions. In essence, he or she is likely to be, in almost every respect bar one, healthier and better tuned than fellow citizens without diabetes, yet the moment insulin-dependent diabetes is diagnosed, car insurance is usually increased, it becomes much more difficult to get a mortgage or life insurance, driving licences have to be applied for every three years, and many job application forms demand declaration of the condition.
Therefore, immediately, for thousands of people a year who become insulin- dependent diabetics and are struggling to adapt to quite a traumatic experience, many extra difficulties are flung at them by the system. In a sense, they are fortunate, but they are a microcosm of what happens to a large number of people with disabilities of all kinds.
The people who are most discriminated against are those whose employment is terminated and permanently denied by their becoming insulin-dependent diabetics. This, I believe, is a problem that has been neglected by all the debates and legislation on disability discrimination that have come before the House. Obviously, I accept a large share of blame for that.
For example, a constituent of mine, Thomas Wright, was a heavy goods vehicle driver from 1979 to 1984, when he contracted insulin-dependent diabetes. When his licence became due for renewal the following year, it was denied. He has been unable to work as an HGV driver ever since, even though his former employer is still, after all these years, active on his behalf to secure his licence again. Oddly, he is able to drive a minibus full of people should he so wish, but he cannot continue his career as an HGV driver. There are many complications to Mr. Wright's story, with communications with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and so on, but the main point is that he has good control of his diabetes. He is well balanced and has a clean medical record from his doctor and specialist. The regulation that prevents him from pursuing his trade is, the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Knapman), who represents the Whips on the Conservative Benches, will be pleased to hear, a European one. It was passed in 1991. It is absolute, in that it takes no account of the individual's health record. In my view, it is wrong and discriminatory. There is a risk, certainly, in a diabetic driving any sort of vehicle, just as there is from people driving with hundreds of different medications, and people with heart disease and many other conditions.
Column 576
Secondly, my friend, Mr. Tim Hoy, from Willesden, London, acquired insulin-dependent diabetes while a serving firefighter, a job which he loved, and he was instantly removed from active service. He was found another job in an office, but he has lost the career he enjoyed. He has written a book on the experience of diabetics in a variety of jobs and the difficulties that they face, which is shortly to be published.Gary Cooper, of Christchurch, had a similar experience with the Dorset fire brigade, and his Member of Parliament has been active on his behalf. Mr. David Stevens, of Romsey in Hampshire, although insulin-dependent, was able to pass his medical to be a firefighter, but cannot be a firefighter because he cannot obtain a licence to drive a fire engine, which is a heavy goods vehicle.
All those men are physically fit, and even athletic. They control their diabetes well and have medical experts who are prepared to go into print to back them. However, all have been excluded from their careers. I take the point made by the hon. Member for Teignbridge (Mr. Nicholls) about the economic activity of disabled people; it is tremendously important, because there are many who, if it were not for discrimination, could be economically active, and therefore cease to be dependent and be more satisfied in their own life.
My last example is Ian Billsborough of Preston. He was a probationary police constable in the Lancashire force. He had done almost two years' probation when his career was terminated because he became an insulin- dependent diabetic. Despite his personal sympathy, the chief constable reported to me:
"All the medical officers have unanimously concluded that diabetes is a condition that bars any applicant from joining the constabulary."
That is nonsense. He continued:
"Mr. Billsborough could not, because of his condition, meet the requirement that he is fitted both physically and mentally to perform the duties of the office of constable."
That is despite the fact that there has been at least one insulin-dependent diabetic England international footballer. Those are judgments by the EC, the Department of Transport, the fire brigade and the police service which are completely arbitrary and based on fear.
The inclusion of insulin-dependent diabetics in our
anti-discrimination philosophy would mean that the individual medical case would be the prime matter for consideration. It would mean that discriminatory insurance premiums could be challenged. It would help to fulfil the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency's avowed policy of getting as many individuals as possible driving again, including insulin-dependent diabetics and those suffering from conditions such as epilepsy or petit mal. Above all, it would mean that hundreds of men and women in key professions with essential expertise could continue to serve society, rather than rely on benefits.
I realise that I have pushed the parameters of the debate a little too far in one direction, but diabetes is a problem which is relatively neglected by the Department of Health--that is a subject for a different debate--and is being mishandled, piecemeal, by a variety of Departments. Its inclusion in a future Labour-led disabled people's rights Bill would correct many injustices and serve the country well.
| Next Section
| Home Page |