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Miss Widdecombe: I think we can deduce from the way in which the right hon. Gentleman seeks to waste the House's time that he does not want to hear the reply to his question.

We have been told that officials appearing before Select Committees are the slaves of their political masters. Paragraph 46 of the Cabinet guidance issued to officials attending Select Committees states:

"Officials appearing before Select Committees are responsible for ensuring that the evidence they give is accurate."

I think we may assume that the former director general made sure that the evidence he gave was accurate. It entirely ties in with my right hon. and learned Friend's version. I do not believe that there can be any further dispute about the validity of the evidence given by both my right hon. and learned Friend and the former Director General of the Prison Service.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Fareham (Sir P. Lloyd) raised many issues that were, he said, to the credit of Derek Lewis. Let me tell him that my right hon. and learned Friend specifically paid tribute to those achievements in his statement on Monday, and that it nevertheless remains true that we received a seriously condemnatory report. My right hon. and learned Friend had a duty to the House to consider that report, to consider whether to accept it and, if he did so, to act on its conclusions.

Allegations of "scapegoating" have also been made in regard to the former governor of Parkhurst prison. The activities of this poor man who was apparently "scapegoated" were analysed extremely clearly in Sir John Learmont's report. As we have heard, he did not actually undertake rub-down searches. Why not? Well, he thought that the requirement was unrealistic: such searches were time-consuming, and a bit impractical in a prison that was undergoing major structural reorganisation.

The governor also decided to reduce the amount available on phone cards, because he discovered that they were being used to pay for cannabis, heroin and syringes--to finance drugs, gambling, trade and debts. Then he went and doubled the allowance. How does that make for a responsible governor? How can a man who could act like that be described as a scapegoat? Surely it was incumbent on both my right hon. and learned Friend

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and the director general to ensure that that man ceased to govern Parkhurst prison at the first possible opportunity, and that is what they did. They fulfilled their duty to the House. If the Opposition object to that, they should go and explain their objections to the electorate--and they will fail completely in that, as they have failed persistently in the past four general elections and will fail in the next.

And the right hon. Member for Gorton did not prevent me from answering the question!

Question put, That the original words stand part of the Question: --

The House divided: Ayes 231, Noes 280.

Division No. 219] [6.59 pm

AYES

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Column 544

Abbott, Ms Diane

Adams, Mrs Irene

Ainger, Nick

Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)

Allen, Graham

Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale)

Armstrong, Hilary

Ashton, Joe

Austin-Walker, John

Banks, Tony (Newham NW)

Barron, Kevin

Battle, John

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret

Beith, Rt Hon A J

Bell, Stuart

Benn, Rt Hon Tony

Bennett, Andrew F

Bermingham, Gerald

Berry, Roger

Betts, Clive

Blair, Rt Hon Tony

Boateng, Paul

Bradley, Keith

Bray, Dr Jeremy

Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E)

Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)

Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)

Byers, Stephen

Caborn, Richard

Callaghan, Jim

Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)

Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)

Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)

Campbell-Savours, D N

Cann, Jamie

Chidgey, David

Chisholm, Malcolm

Clapham, Michael

Clark, Dr David (South Shields)

Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)

Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)

Clelland, David

Clwyd, Mrs Ann

Cohen, Harry

Cook, Frank (Stockton N)

Corbyn, Jeremy

Corston, Jean

Cousins, Jim

Cox, Tom

Cummings, John

Cunliffe, Lawrence

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Dalyell, Tam

Darling, Alistair

Davies, Bryan (Oldham C'tral)

Davies, Chris (L'Boro & S'worth)

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Column 544

Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)

Davies, Ron (Caerphilly)

Dewar, Donald

Dixon, Don

Dobson, Frank

Donohoe, Brian H

Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eastham, Ken

Evans, John (St Helens N)

Ewing, Mrs Margaret

Fatchett, Derek

Field, Frank (Birkenhead)

Fisher, Mark

Flynn, Paul

Foster, Rt Hon Derek

Foster, Don (Bath)

Foulkes, George

Fraser, John

Fyfe, Maria

Galloway, George

Garrett, John

George, Bruce

Gerrard, Neil

Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John

Godman, Dr Norman A

Godsiff, Roger

Golding, Mrs Llin

Graham, Thomas

Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)

Grocott, Bruce

Gunnell, John

Hain, Peter

Hall, Mike

Hanson, David

Harman, Ms Harriet

Harvey, Nick

Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy

Henderson, Doug

Heppell, John

Hill, Keith (Streatham)

Hinchliffe, David

Hodge, Margaret

Hoey, Kate

Home Robertson, John

Hood, Jimmy

Hoon, Geoffrey

Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A)

Howarth, George (Knowsley North)

Howells, Dr Kim (Pontypridd)

Hoyle, Doug

Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)

Hughes, Roy (Newport E)

Hughes, Simon (Southwark)

Hutton, John

Ingram, Adam

Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)

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