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House of Commons

Friday 20 October 1995

The House met at half-past Nine o'clock

PRAYERS

[ Madam Speaker-- in the Chair ]

Science and Technology

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.-- [Mr. Mackay.]

[Relevant documents: The Second Report from the Science and Technology Committee of Session 1993-94 on the Forward Look of Government-Funded Science, Engineering and Technology 1994, HC 422; the First Special Report of Session 1994-95 containing the Government's Reply thereto, HC 216; the Multi-Departmental Scrutiny of Public Sector Research Establishments, the First Report of Session 1994-95 on the Efficiency Unit Scrutiny of Public Sector Research Establishments, HC 19; the Government response to the Efficiency Scrutiny, Cm 2991; and the Third Report of Session 1994-95 on Human Genetics: the Science and its Consequences, HC41-I.]

9.34 am

The President of the Board of Trade and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Mr. Ian Lang): I am delighted that so early in my tenure of office as President of the Board of Trade the Government have made time available for this important debate. It reflects the importance that we attach to the subject and it is particularly timely in the light of the transfer of responsibility for science and technology to the Department of Trade and Industry.

The United Kingdom is outstandingly good at science and technology. Our scientists and engineers are world class. There are many peaks of outstanding excellence which are widely recognised as such. I must beware of highlighting single areas, but one has only to think of recent achievements in molecular biology to appreciate this truth. The United Kingdom's success in attracting the European Bioinformatics Institute to Cambridge is an excellent illustration. There, it will form part of a new world-class centre for the study of genetics. There are other examples of excellence that I could quote. Our strength in science is a huge national asset which draws in investment from around the world--for example, in the electronics industry. Our ability to compete in world markets depends increasingly on producing world-beating high-technology, high value-added goods and services. Science and technology are central to this, but it is not only our wallets that science affects. Science is relevant to the environment, transport, employment and almost every aspect of our lives. For example, in addition to being a prime means of competing effectively in wealth creation, science and technology also underpin the improvements that we are making and continue to make in the quality of life.

Pharmaceuticals, medical techniques in diagnosis and treatment and improved understanding of the environment and the ways in which we can co-exist harmoniously with

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the natural world are all underpinned by science and technology. The United Kingdom is world class in many of those areas. Before I go any further, I should acknowledge the valuable work of the Select Committee on Science and Technology of this House. The Committee has tackled a variety of important topics and played a considerable role in drawing scientific and technological issues to the attention of hon. Members and the community at large. The Government have recognised that in their support for the continuation of the Committee as a separate body, following the transfer of the Office of Science and Technology to the DTI.

In the past 18 months, the Committee has produced reports on the routes through which the science base is translated into innovative and competitive technology, on the "forward look", on the merger of Glaxo and Wellcome, and on the Government's scrutiny of public sector research establishments. All have been influential on the Government's thinking. In July, the Committee published a report on human genetics, to which the Government will respond shortly. The Committee is currently conducting an inquiry into the technology foresight programme. I very much look forward to answering the Committee's questions on that and other topics when I appear before it next week.

The Government have brought science and technology to the forefront of policy. The 1993 White Paper "Realising our Potential" was the first major statement of science policy for almost 30 years. The White Paper expressed pride in the excellence of our scientists, engineers and technologists, and set out the Government's determination to see that excellence better used to create wealth in the United Kingdom and to improve our quality of life. The White Paper saw the key to achieving that goal as the building of partnerships between the science base, Government, business and other users.

The White Paper was widely welcomed for its vision and boldness. Since 1993, the Office of Science and Technology has made great strides in taking forward the White Paper initiatives. The White Paper remains the basis for our policies and the OST will continue to work within that framework.

When I took over the helm at the Department of Trade and Industry, I announced my intention to focus a great deal of my efforts on developing the science and engineering base. Part of that focus is an emphasis on improved connections between firms and the science and engineering base which will help them to achieve and maintain competitiveness in world markets. In the highly competitive and technologically intensive world in which our firms have to compete, it is essential that they are fully able to understand, gain access to and apply scientific and technological advances. If they do not do so, they will fall behind our competitors. To be able to do so effectively and speedily, they need good connections to expertise and skills in the science and engineering base. I am greatly encouraged that that is being realised by an increasing number of firms. Our approach can be summed up as excellence plus partnership. We are determined that Britain's basic research must stay top of the class, and we place great importance on forging closer links between the science base, industry and Government.

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Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): From his position at the helm of the DTI, is the President of the Board of Trade comfortable with the fact that so much of the research is done on a short- term contract basis? In the past 15 years, short-term contracts have increased by 217 per cent. and permanent posts by only 2 per cent. Is the right hon. Gentleman happy about that situation?

Mr. Lang: The time scale of research is less important than the outcome and the Government's continuing commitment to ensuring that research, both basic and applied, is properly funded and that proper priority is given to it by the Government, universities, research councils and industry.

Mrs. Anne Campbell (Cambridge): Is it not the case that a researcher on a short-term contract is not fully productive for the whole two or three years for which that contract applies? One of the problems is that university researchers are finding it difficult to get jobs when their short-term contracts are completed, and spend the last 12 months of the contract looking for other work rather than doing the research.

Mr. Lang: The American experience does not bear out what the hon. Lady has said. I do not believe that the short-term contracts to which she refers, which are the way of the world not just in science but throughout industry, jeopardise the quality of research, and I see no evidence that they do. If any such evidence became apparent, I would be interested to see it.

Mr. Michael Connarty (Falkirk, East) rose --

Mr. Lang: I must press on, but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman later.

This emphasis on forging closer links between the science base, industry and Government is how to see the move of the OST to the Department of Trade and Industry. We need to make the most of the potential vicinity between our science base and industry. I shall say more about that in a moment.

The basic point is clear--bringing industry closer to science and stimulating it to build up its own research base is good for Britain. It is not in any way to downgrade science, but is saying that Britain needs top- quality basic and strategic research. It needs investment in science and technology for the longer term, but it cannot afford to overlook the benefits from science that arise along the way. If there are opportunities for closer working between science and industry--for sharing resources and similar goals--let us make the most of them.

Some people have expressed concern about the OST's move. Let me repeat what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and I have said before. The policies of "Realising our Potential" go on. There will be no lurch to short-termism. I fully accept that the role of the science base is to undertake long-term basic and strategic research. The Prime Minister and I have made it clear that the roles of the chief scientific adviser and the Director General of the Research Councils are unaffected by the transfer. I have regular meetings with the chief scientific adviser, who also retains his direct access to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. The OST will continue to exercise its transdepartmental role of developing and co- ordinating policy for science and technology across all Government Departments. For example, it is

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co-ordinating the Government's response to the Select Committee's report on human genetics, which I mentioned.

The move to the DTI is not a threat, but rather an opportunity.

Dr. Jeremy Bray (Motherwell, South): Can the President of the Board of Trade explain the relationship between the OST and the chief scientific adviser on the one hand, and the research and development for which the rest of the Department of Trade and Industry is responsible, particularly establishments? Is the chief scientific adviser responsible for those establishments?

Mr. Lang: The chief scientific adviser has a responsibility for all science conducted throughout all Government Departments, including the scientific work internal to the Department of Trade and Industry and the OST, which has now been brought into the DTI. I hope that that clarifies the position for the hon. Gentleman.

Dr. Bray: Specifically, in the management structure of technology and research and development within the DTI, does the chief scientific adviser come in a line with those establishments and the right hon. Gentleman?

Mr. Lang: There is no distinction between the internal scientific work of the DTI and the scientific work of any other Government Department undertaking such work, as regards the relationship with the chief scientific adviser. The fact that the OST has become attached to the DTI does not undermine the internal DTI scientific work or the position of the chief scientific adviser, whose responsibility is spread right across Government.

Sir Giles Shaw (Pudsey): I apologise to my right hon. Friend for pursuing the matter, but I think that what lies behind the question of the hon. Member for Motherwell, South (Dr. Bray) is that the DTI would appear, uniquely among large spending research and science departments, to have no chief scientific officer of its own. Dr. Robinson has not been replaced. Would my right hon. Friend care to comment on that?

Mr. Lang: I do not know what my hon. Friend is so concerned about, because there has been no change in the context of the overall responsibility of the chief scientific adviser, or indeed of the Director General of the Research Councils. The fact that the OST has been moved into the Department of Trade and Industry does not undermine its role, or the activities of or responsibility for DTI research, or any of the commitment that exists towards that. I think that I have made that position fairly clear, but if my hon. Friend wants to pursue the matter, I will be happy to try to clarify it further.

I do not see the move to the DTI as a threat. I see it as an opportunity. The key message of the 1993 White Paper was that the United Kingdom's business and science needed to get better connected. Progress has been made since that White Paper. Much of the initiative has come from the science and engineering base.

Our efforts to encourage scientists to forge links with business need to be met by an equal willingness on the part of business to engage with science. All sectors of business need to open their minds to the potential for using technology to enhance their cutting edge. This is

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where the opportunity lies for new approaches, drawing on the combined resources of the OST and the rest of the DTI.

Mr. John Battle (Leeds, West): It is interesting that we are having this debate on the OST's move today, after the event. One of the helpful words that the Government have introduced into the debate is "foresight", yet the White Paper suggested an independent OST to pull Departments together. Where was the planning, preparation and public discussion before the decision to move the OST was sprung on us on the afternoon of 4 July?

Mr. Lang: These decisions were taken before I took responsibility for the matter. My right hon. Friend the then President of the Board of Trade might have been influenced by the Labour party document that I have here, which committed the party to co-ordinating science and technology under a Minister for science in the new DTI. That was a commitment in the Labour party manifesto for the 1992 election. The science and engineering base is the engine house for new ideas, trains the next generation of highly qualified engineers and scientists, and provides a dynamic source of advice and expertise to enable us to exploit new ideas wherever they may originate. It is one of the cornerstones of our approach to enhancing national competitiveness.

Basic science permeates all places-- [Interruption] --including this Chamber, and basic science, undertaken purely out of curiosity, has often led to advances in different products or processes, including bleepers, pagers and mobile telephones. An obvious example is the way in which early work on molecular biology has led to major advances in medicine--for example, the identification of a gene that causes a particular type of kidney disease.

The time scales are often quite long, however, and the Government recognise that they are the prime sponsor for such work. They take that responsibility seriously, and have a long record of sustained support for basic and strategic science. Since 1979, the science budget, which supports the research councils, has risen in real terms by about 30 per cent., and now stands at nearly £1.3 billion. Some firms have responded to that increase in funding by increasing their investment in the science and engineering base.

Mr. Dalyell: On the identification of genes, is the right hon. Gentleman or the Minister who is to reply to the debate going to say anything about the byzantine problems of the patenting of such genes, especially in relation to the tricky question of personal insurance and the knowledge of defective genes that might be given to insurance companies?

Mr. Lang: We are aware of the concern over that matter. If the hon. Gentleman would like to develop that point during the debate, my hon. Friend the Minister will certainly want to respond.

Some firms have responded to the increase in funding to which I referred by increasing their investment in the science and engineering base--a real terms increase of nearly 20 per cent. between 1987-88 and 1993-94. That interaction does not drive the universities in the short term; rather, it provides the all-important dialogue between the academic community and industry. However, we must recognise that there is still a long way to go.

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The Department of Trade and Industry is working hard to stimulate the dialogue and improve the climate for business innovation by promoting best practice in business management and the use of technology, and by supporting the development and application of new technology through collaborative R and D programmes. In addition, the DTI focuses help on small and medium-sized firms through the SMART and SPUR schemes, which provide grants for the development of new products and processes.

Through the work of the innovation unit in particular, the DTI is seeking to change attitudes in both the public and private sectors in favour of innovation. That is being achieved by improving communications between companies and financial institutions on longer-term investment and development, the annual innovation lecture and publishing the annual scoreboard of company R and D expenditure. The Government are developing a more comprehensive innovation index for introduction during 1996 to promote further analysis and debate about innovation in firms.

Mrs. Anne Campbell: The real point about the R and D scoreboard is that it shows an appalling lack of investment by UK companies in research and development. Would the right hon. Gentleman care to comment on the 1994 figures, which, from memory, show that about £7 billion was spent by the top 362 UK companies on research and development, compared with £14 billion paid out to shareholders? In the top 200 world companies, the ratio of investment in R and D to shareholders' dividends is completely reversed.

Mr. Lang: The hon. Lady seems to discount all the work that we are putting into technology foresight and all the schemes designed to increase and stimulate R and D.

I disagree with the hon. Lady's figures. The figures for overall public and private investment in research between 1986 and 1993, the last available figures, show a 6 per cent. real increase, with the private sector contributing some 70 per cent.--about £9.5 billion. That trend stands pretty good comparison with most of our industrial rivals.

As we acknowledged in the second competitiveness White Paper, "Forging Ahead", alongside the UK's proud scientific record there is ground to make up in commercial exploitation. There are huge opportunities ahead for the United Kingdom if we can strengthen the links between our outstanding basic research and commercial exploitation. This is an area where the OST and the rest of the DTI with its knowledge of industrial sectors and wide range of activities to promote the health of small firms can work closely together, complementing each other's efforts at improving the interface between science and business.

The partnership between the DTI and OST in the LINK and teaching company schemes reflects the wider partnerships which we are seeking to forge between the science base and industry throughout the country. The Government are taking further steps to encourage the development of productive connections of this sort. For instance, we recently announced the OST competition for industry-academe collaboration, and the DTI competition for technology transfer to reward those in universities and technology transfer units who are successful in building such connections.

We must not forget the people dimension. People are central to the science and engineering base, as they are to industry and commerce. In particular, the key to partnerships of the sort that we have in mind is

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encouraging movement of people. This helps the flow of ideas and knowledge, breaks down barriers and builds up understanding and mutual trust. The Government support a number of schemes to promote this movement of people, including the teaching company scheme, postgraduate training partnerships, the shell technology enterprise programme and co-operative awards in science and engineering. The technology foresight programme is central to our efforts to strengthen the science-business partnership. The 1993 White Paper announced the Government's intention to conduct a national technology foresight exercise, building on the theme of partnership, to bring together industry, academia and Government to reach a shared vision of future market and societal changes and the science, engineering and technology required to underpin, advance and exploit them. Over 10,000 individuals took part in the exercise, through workshops, seminars or Delphi questionnaires, giving their expert opinions on one or more of the 15 sectors identified. That first phase of the programme culminated earlier this year in the publication of the 15 panel reports and the report of the steering group whose job it was to advise Ministers, through the chief scientist, on all aspects of the programme.

I am pleased to report to the House the support and interest that the reports have received both from within the United Kingdom and from other countries. The Government have stressed their commitment to the foresight programme as a continuing process through which we can establish active networks and clubs between science and every sector of business--small firms as well as large. In particular, we aim to make firms more aware of what is on offer from the UK science base and of the value of wise investment in and use of technology. The Government also want foresight to inform priorities within publicly funded science and technology. As the 1993 White Paper said, neither the UK nor any other country can afford to cover all areas of research equally well; priorities will inevitably be set. We must ensure that the process of priority setting takes due account of strategic relevance to wealth creating and the quality of life. Technology foresight will help to inform that process. One key strategic aim--extend quality life, or EQUAL--is to extend the active life of our aging population, drawing on our great strengths in biotechnology, medical research and our strong pharmaceutical industry.

Industrially relevant basic and strategic research can be as challenging and exciting as pure research, and can open up new challenges and opportunities for academic scientists. Contact with industrially relevant problems and needs can also stimulate creative scientists and engineers to tackle these problems with imaginative approaches. It can also enable scientists to try out their ideas on a larger scale and in a more realistic environment.

At the same time, the Government are clear that we should not go too far in directing basic research into areas perceived to be relevant now. We must retain an adequate balance of research driven by curiosity alone with a view to longer-term wealth creation. The foresight exercise has already achieved a great deal, thanks to the enthusiastic participation of the panels and their chairman, and all those they consulted in producing their reports.

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In the next phase, there are two main challenges. First, we must ensure that the foresight recommendations are intelligently reflected in the balance and direction of publicly funded science and technology, while we continue to nurture the seedcorn of fundamental research. Secondly, we must encourage a positive response from industry and commerce to the opportunities identified by the foresight reports and using the foresight process to help secure more and better quality academic and business links.

The foresight challenge competition, announced last month, will catalyse science-business partnerships by providing pump-priming funding for collaborative foresight projects. My Department is also providing funds to support regional seminars and clubs to push forward the foresight agenda within business across the country.

Mr. Connarty: The Minister makes two points that I would have raised anyway. Could he comment on the view of vice-chancellors and principals that this policy is already distorting the type of research being done, and that highly rated basic research is not being undertaken and money diverted to lower-rated research because it has more interest for industry?

Mr. Lang: That point was mentioned by the Royal Society in a recent comment on technology foresight. I met the president of the Royal Society earlier this week, when we discussed the matter. I do not believe that there is a distortion. Of course, that is something about which we are anxious to be careful. However, the recent Realising Our Potential Awards, details of which I announced yesterday in the report and hope to mention shortly, do not suggest to me that there is such a distortion.

The Government have also started on the process of implementing technology foresight outcomes. For instance, new LINK collaborative programmes have been launched directly in response to foresight, covering as diverse a range of target areas as applied bio-catalysis; waste minimisation through recycling; genetic and environmental interactions in health; and earth observation.

LINK is the Government's principal mechanism for supporting collaborative research programmes, and an indication of its success is that over 570 LINK projects, worth over £300 million, and involving more than 800 companies, have been started since its conception in 1988. Collaborative research is not short term. It requires sustained commitment, via schemes such as LINK, over many years to make it successful.

There is a huge programme of activity going on within Government and outside to take forward the technology foresight exercise. For example, the DTI's sector divisions have a key role in interpreting foresight output to industry, putting them in the context of the competitiveness messages which the Department discusses on a day-to-day basis with companies. Most importantly, foresight gives an excellent opportunity to encourage firms generally to think more strategically about their business and future markets. The Government will publish a first progress report on how the exercise is being taken forward at the end of this year.

The Realising Our Potential Award scheme--ROPA--is an important and successful element in the Government's science strategy. It has two main aims: to

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encourage academic researchers to collaborate with industry in strategic research; and to enable them to carry out undirected research in any area of their own choosing.

We have two years' experience of ROPAs: the 1994 pilot scheme; and the subsequent full scheme in 1995, both of which were operated by the research councils. The response has been tremendous, and the scheme has clearly captured the imagination and interest of both academics and industrialists. We have had more than 1,500 applications for ROPAs, and those researchers quoted more than £260 million of funding from industry in support of their applications; 719 ROPAs have been awarded, some to the top names in UK science and engineering. The awards so far have a total value of some £71 million. All of it is for curiosity-driven research of the researchers' own choosing. A detailed report was published yesterday.

Mr. Donald Anderson (Swansea, East): The President may be aware that, in response to yesterday's report and the two years' experience of the scheme, including the refinement of the guidelines, the Royal Society of Chemistry, for example, which was initially cautious, is now prepared to give a positive response, and says that the future now rests on the shoulders of individual researchers.

Mr. Lang: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that encomium for the scheme. It certainly reflects the warmth of the reception for it that I have also recognised.

ROPA grants have gone to the top-rated research departments in our universities. Two thirds of such ROPAs went to those rated in the top two bands, which is a greater concentration than for many other grant schemes.

Mrs. Anne Campbell: Would the President care to comment on the report by one of the panel chairmen of the Medical Research Council, who commented that ROPAs were forcing him to give grants to research which it would be better not to fund? There have been many comments about the quality of research done under ROPAs. Indeed, in some areas they are becoming known as "ropy ROPAs".

Mr. Lang: That is dealt with in the report. The whole point about the awards is that they are for curiosity-driven research. It is easy for somebody in a particular discipline of the science world to say that the areas being chosen are not worth pursuing; but it is only by carrying out curiosity-driven research--blue-skies research--of the kind that ROPAs exist to encourage that we can make the progress that both sides of the House are keen to see.

Some universities and institutes have been very successful in seeking ROPAs, and the most successful include Cambridge and Imperial college. In terms of departments, biological sciences, chemistry, engineering and medicine were particularly successful, while the industrial support quoted by applicants was dominated by the chemicals, engineering, medicine and pharmaceutical sectors. It is probably significant that these include many of our most successful companies.

On the other hand, the ROPA results tell us that we need to do more to bring other sectors of industry into play. The recent move of the Office of Science and Technology into the DTI can help that process, through bringing together a combination of initiatives such as foresight, ROPAs and the activities of our business links teams and the DTI sectoral divisions.

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The 1993 White Paper recognised that there were still deep-seated cultural barriers in this country, which prevented full recognition of the importance of science and technology. Serious media coverage of science and technology was thin. Many people were ignorant and fearful of science and technology, if not openly antipathetic. We have made some progress. The BBC has greatly improved its coverage, and it is possible to point to some examples of first-class journalism. Nevertheless, there is still too little recognition among the general public of the extent to which our economy and the whole fabric of our society rests on science and technology.

The White Paper therefore launched a new Government campaign to spread the understanding of science and technology among young people and among the public at large. The campaign is a central part of our efforts to pull science and technology more fully into the UK cultural mainstream. I share my predecessors' view of the importance of promoting public understanding, and I shall take forward and develop their initiatives, particularly the establishment of National Science, Engineering and Technology Week.

We have also launched a parallel initiative in engineering entitled "Action for Engineering". It brings together the academic community, the engineering institutions and business to build on the opportunity offered by the coming together of the engineering institutions under a new engineering council to project engineering's contribution to our national life.

Earlier this year, the OST set up a committee under the chairmanship of Sir Arnold Wolfendale to examine how professional scientists and engineers could better promote public understanding of their work. I am pleased to announce today publication of the committee's report. Hon. Members will be aware of the critical role played by scientists and engineers in generating national wealth and improving public well-being. The report highlights the need for such awareness among the wider public. It is vital if we are to fire the enthusiasm for science of able young people and encourage informed debate of the major scientific issues that affect us all. The report makes a number of important recommendations on how scientists and engineers can be encouraged to communicate to a wider audience. The recommendations directed to my Department--for example, the publication of a good practice guide--will be implemented, and I commend to other organisations the recommendations that apply to them. I am grateful to Sir Arnold and his committee for the work that they have done.

I am conscious of time pressing on. There is a great deal more that I could say about the Government's science and technology policy. It is an area of vigorous activity reflecting the urgency that we feel of realising the potential of national strengths in science and technology. Within the DTI, we are taking forward a range of activity to promote awareness of the importance of innovation and best practice in managing innovation--for example, through the managing in the nineties programme. That programme spreads best practice in its broadest sense, including innovation, management and the application of new technologies.

The DTI is promoting access by firms to technology from the UK science and engineering base through a number of activities, such as the teaching company scheme centres at universities, as well as through the

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NEARNET and SUPERNET networks available at business links. The DTI's overseas technology services give UK companies access to overseas science and technology--for instance, through the expanded engineers to Japan scheme and the overseas science and technology expert missions scheme.

The DTI and OST are active on a wide front internationally, promoting opportunities for UK researchers to engage in collaborations with overseas partners where it makes sense for them to do so. In Europe, under the third framework programme, UK researchers secured more research contracts than any other single member state. We are endeavouring at least to maintain that performance under the fourth framework programme. UK researchers have a deservedly strong reputation internationally, which is why others want to work with them. That strength also offers us the opportunity to use our capabilities in science and technology to promote UK exports and attract inward investment, which we do vigorously. My hon. Friend the Under- Secretary of State for Science and Technology is hot-foot from attending the ministerial Council of the European Space Agency. There are those who have chosen to misunderstand our attitude to the ESA. The UK is committed to collaboration in space through the ESA, and fully recognises the excellence of the ESA's research programme. Nevertheless, it is imperative that the ESA is not spared the disciplines of economy, efficiency and effectiveness that we would expect to apply to the administration of science in the UK. We must not allow growth in the cost of space mission infrastructure to squeeze out our ability to contribute fully to the science.

Mr. Spencer Batiste (Elmet): Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Lang: Yes, but I must then press on.

Mr. Batiste: My right hon. Friend refers rightly to the important work that is done in the European Space Agency, and the need to ensure that it is done efficiently. Does he accept that one of the consequences of ESA spending is that the money available for national programmes, to be applied to matters that fit our national priorities, has been reduced and become very limited in recent times? The danger is that, in areas such as global navigation satellites, for example, we may find that useful leads by our industry are squeezed out for lack of funding in the future.

Mr. Lang: My hon. Friend makes a sound point, of which we are aware. It is precisely to avoid the danger of the problem that he identifies that we are keen to emphasise the need for efficiency and effectiveness in the use of the funds that we devote through the ESA.

At home, we are improving the co-ordination of science and technology across Government. The 1995 "forward look" presented a comprehensive overview of Government Departments' plans for science and technology. It reported on the steps that the Departments are taking to improve collaboration with each other, and on their progress in aligning their science and technology more closely with the needs of business and in ensuring that the potential for commercial spin-off is fully covered.

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We are also working to improve the efficiency and value for money of the substantial public investment in science and technology--by, for example, exploring the scope for closer working between public sector research establishments. My Department has worked successfully to bring a more commercial approach to bear on its own laboratories through a programme of privatisation and contractorisation. We have improved the career management of researchers in the science base in consultation with the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals. We have relaunched, and injected additional funds into, the LINK scheme, with the result that it is already delivering collaborative R and D programmes that take forward foresight recommendations. We have established a development unit within the OST to promote the participation of women in science, engineering and technology, which has already achieved a great deal, working with voluntary organisations and industry.

Mr. Patrick Thompson (Norwich, North): Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Lang: I am just about to finish. I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me for not giving way, but many hon. Members wish to participate in the debate.

As President of the Board of Trade and Minister in the Cabinet with responsibility for science and technology, I am fully committed to sustaining the momentum and direction of the Government's science and technology policies. The OST and the rest of the DTI are working together towards a common strategic aim: developing and nurturing the excellence of our science and technology and ensuring that industry--indeed, society as a whole--makes more use of this vital national asset for the greater good of the British people. 10.11 am

Mr. John Battle (Leeds, West): I welcome the President of the Board of the Trade and the Minister for Science and Technology to their new appointments: I believe that this is the first time that we have debated science across the Dispatch Box.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby, South (Mrs. Beckett) on her appointment yesterday as shadow Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. She has a long-standing and deep commitment to science, engineering and technology, and I look forward to her being with us for such debates in the future.

Mr. Batiste: Are we to understand that the first action of the new shadow spokesman for Trade and Industry is not to turn up for a science and technology debate?

Mr. Battle: That is a cheap and churlish remark. My right hon. Friend was appointed only yesterday and it is not reasonable for her commitments simply to be torn up; there is a little interregnum. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will have the good grace to join the House and extend a word of welcome to her.

Mr. Robert G. Hughes (Harrow, West): Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Battle: I will take a question in a moment.

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May I take this opportunity to invite Conservative Members to extend a word of congratulation to Professor Joseph Rotblat on his Nobel peace prize? It is a rare and deserved example of the contribution of science to peace. We should, not least in this debate, congratulate him.

Mr. Donald Anderson: As far as we are aware, Professor Rotblat is still awaiting congratulations from No. 10. Have they yet been sent?

Mr. Battle: As my hon. Friend knows, I cannot answer for No. 10, but I hope that in this debate the President of the Board of Trade and Conservative Members will congratulate him.

Nobel prizes have recently been awarded for a range of scientific disciplines and the winners deserve our congratulations. The timing is all the more poignant as the winning projects are considered to have been ones that may not have received funding from the Government. Nature of 12 October reports:

"Peter Lawrence, a geneticist at the laboratory for Molecular Biology in Cambridge, described the trio"--

those who won the Nobel prizes for science--

"as `role models for scientists of the future'. The award, he adds, is a much-needed signal to science policy makers of the need to continue funding unfashionable, risk-laden, long-term projects whose result is not always in sight.

This research, Lawrence says, is the type of work that should be every scientist's bread and butter, but is becoming more and more difficult to achieve. `I am convinced that Ed Lewis would not have got a grant in our days,' he says."

I emphasise that point because we question whether the Government have got the balance right between basic curiosity-driven science and technology transfer.

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