House of Commons Hansard Debates for 27 Oct 1995

Column 1268

be grateful. It would be helpful and would add ballast to what so far have merely been pious sentiments. I do not say that in a mean spirit as I regard the hon. Gentleman as a friend, but I ask him to do that.

Ealing Labour council set out to privatise public facilities which have been running for many years and has laid down such severe criteria that developers are coming in with bids that will give that council lots of money. It already has £17 million in reserve and is not short of money. The criteria on which it is encouraging bids are so severe that my constituents will be priced out of using the facilities. The Ealing northern sports centre is to be privatised in such a severe fashion that my constituents will have to pay £50 when until now they have paid £10. What does that Labour council think that it is doing? At the same time, the Opposition say how keen they are on sport. The same will happen to Northolt Swimerama, which is in an area where it is much needed, and to the Gurnell pool in west Ealing. There again, the developers have been set such tight criteria that their bids will price many of my constituents out of using those facilities. Rich people will be drawn in from around and about, but I do not see the future in that. I do not know what the Labour party thinks it is doing.

Less controversially, or perhaps more controversially, but in a different field, I must say a word or two in support of boxing as that great sport has been so severely attacked. There is no one who does not regret damage to a boxer and there is no question but that the death of Jim Murray moved and hurt the nation. It was especially stirring when his father said on television two days after his tragic death that Jim would have wanted the sport to continue and that he himself would continue to support it.

I speak as vice-chairman of the all-party parliamentary friends of boxing group. I do not believe that any legal process could succeed in outlawing the sport of boxing. It would go underground and be pursued in rough forms in all sorts of undesirable places and money would change hands. Whether we like the sport or not, we have no alternative but to live with it and to try to enhance it. Boxing is the noble art of self-defence, not of knocking your opponent's block off, damaging his brain and all the rest of it: that is not the object of the sport. While I warmly welcome the recently announced proposals of the British Boxing Board of Control to make the sport more supervised, both medically and while fights are in progress, I would go further and give the medical authorities the right to stop a fight, as they can in America. I hope that that right will be conceded.

I want the sport of boxing to be encouraged in schools--it is still practised in some, but far fewer than formerly--as a suitable sport for boys. If it is felt that there is far too much readiness on the part of those teaching it to young boys to encourage them to go for the head, I should like it to be made illegal for the head to be punched at schoolboy level. If boxers were simply attacking or defending their own bodies and the head were left out, one could continue with the sport, as it would be acceptable to parents and thus the practice would increase in schools.

Boxing is a useful sport in schools. I was a schoolmaster for 23 years. If there was an altercation between two boys and they could not settle their argument in any other way, I could say, "I don't want you fighting outside school or anywhere else, but you can get in the ring and be properly supervised--would you like to do

Column 1269

that?" Sometimes they would say, "No, we've finished," and sometimes they said yes. It was a way of resolving nasty differences between boys in a properly supervised manner.

Due to pressure of time I shall not speak for much longer, but I must point out that some other sports are much more dangerous than boxing. Riding, for example, is one of my best loved sports. No one loves horses and riding more than I do. I have ridden the horse that Mark Davies, a famous event rider, used to ride and, indeed, trained. I saw Mark Davies die while event -riding. It was an accident that could have happened to anyone. I have tried to get this message across before, but more people died in the Cairngorms last winter than have died in 50 years of boxing. That should be remembered. Motor racing can also be lethal, but one cannot stop the adventurous spirit of men and women or their wish to compete in sometimes dangerous activities. We should seek to minimise the danger while maximising that adventurous spirit and giving it full reign. I thoroughly agree with my hon. Friend the Minister that team games in school are crucial and that we should bring them back where they have been abandoned because they develop the character. I also know from my own experience that sixth formers in particular gain a great deal from competing in individual sports against themselves or against an environment, as happens in mountaineering. There is certainly a place for that approach and I commend it.

1.40 pm

Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney, North and Stoke Newington): One cannot underestimate the significance of sport and sports people in the lives of youngsters, especially those in the inner city. In my area of Hackney, sportsmen and women are considered far more important and heroic than mere Members of Parliament.

As the Minister said in his introductory address, one of the important things about sport is the values that it can teach. The document "Raising the Game" states early on:

"Sport can provide lessons for life which young people are unlikely to learn so well in any other way."

One of the values that sport, the administration and practice of sport and the behaviour of spectators should demonstrate is a commitment to equality and anti-racism. My remarks deal with the experiences of some black sportsmen and women and with racism in sport.

In many ways, sport is multiracialism in action. Since the war, it has been noticeable that an ever-increasing number of black Britons have represented this country with dignity and a remarkable degree of success: 50 per cent. of Britain's athletics squad is black, 50 per cent. of current British boxing champions are black, and 25 per cent. of our professional footballers are black. There are rising ethnic minority stars in many sports.

At many levels, however, there is still evidence of racial discrimination, whether in the attitude of those at the top of the sport or in that of spectators. That is the experience of sportsmen and women. Despite the central role that sport plays in our life--the many hours devoted to sport in the media and the number of Members of Parliament who enthuse about it-- there is almost a conspiracy of silence about racism in sport.

Column 1270

Racism in sport can deter black spectators from attending sporting events. We have been talking about how to increase involvement and participation in sport, but the fact that some people still feel unable to attend a football match because of the atmosphere and some of the chanting does not help to make them more sports-minded. Racism can put great pressure on young black sportsmen and women and cut off their career opportunities. In some sports, it can deter inner-city young people from getting involved. For instance, although there may be a great many black participants in football, young black people and people from the ethnic minorities are noticeable by their absence from sports such as tennis, swimming and even some club rugby union and club cricket.

Racism operates at many levels. One of the problems is still the attitude at the very top. One of the most disgraceful recent incidents, which shocked many people, was the article in Wisden Cricket Monthly , which tried to make out that black people--simply because of their colour--could not play cricket for England with the same commitment, determination or passion as people with white skins. As recently as yesterday, Philip de Freitas was awarded damages for that article, as was Devon Malcolm. I want to say, on behalf of anyone who is a cricket lover, whatever the colour of their skin, that that article was a tremendous slur on black and Asian people who play for England at a national or county level and I am surprised that that publication ever considered it worth publishing. Friends and colleagues who are more familiar with the world of football than me say that, in many ways, attitudes of managers have moved on in recent years. However, not so long ago, even in football, where black footballers have excelled, managers had some very prejudicial attitudes to black players.

I recall Jim Smith, who was then manager of Queen's Park Rangers, saying that black players use very little intelligence and get by on sheer natural ability. It used to be very common for football managers to say that black footballers may have had flair but that they did not have the work rate, did not want to work and did not like the cold. I do not hear that so often now, but it was not so long ago.

Sadly, racist chanting and the flinging of bananas on the pitch continue. When I hear, from people who are now friends of mine, what they had to put up with as young black professionals going on to the pitch, I wonder at their nerve, determination and courage. How many of us could go on to a sports pitch and stand thousands of people chanting abuse at us because of the colour of our skin? Thankfully, that has lessened in recent years, as many of the top teams have star black players. However, as recently as last season, Derby County was forced to take its two black players off the field during a match against Millwall as a result of the racist chanting of Millwall supporters.

Football spectators are not the only offenders. Martin Offiah, who is a rugby league star, has said:

"Black players still get taunts at nearly every game, and occasionally you can still get banana skins thrown at you." A recent survey found that every black and Asian player in professional rugby league has suffered racial abuse at some time. Club cricket and club rugby were mentioned earlier. I have not played sport since I was at school, but I have friends and relatives who are enthusiastic players of

Column 1271

cricket and rugby. When they were at school and occasionally went out into the home counties or the shire counties to compete against some of those clubs at rugby or cricket, they did not meet- -at least in the club room afterwards--a positive attitude which would have encouraged them, as young men from inner-city Brixton or Hackney, to continue playing those games once they left school.

We must consider some of the social attitudes surrounding club rugby union and club cricket if we want to find the answer to the question why fewer young black people and fewer inner-city young people than we would like remain involved in sports once they leave school.

The issue in relation to race that is most controversial is the incidence of racism and fascism among supporters. Everyone in the House was ashamed by the display put on by supporters of England at the match in Dublin last year. We read regularly about the incidence of organised racism, about Combat 18 and--more frighteningly--about the extent to which small but organised fascist groups of supporters throughout Europe are linking up to abuse and attack players when our English national team goes abroad. I want, and I know that many black sportsmen want, the Football Association and many football clubs to take a strong position on that. It is difficult for black sportsmen and sportswomen to speak out about that issue because, if they do so, they are thought of as whingeing and not showing a British stiff upper lip. That is partly why I welcome the opportunity to raise the issue in the House.

In Italy, where there was especially bad racist abuse of two young Dutch players, there was a day of action, and a banner reading "No to racism" was worn by all the players. I and many people, including some of our sportsmen and sportswomen, want the clubs, organisations and officials to be much more vocal and more definite and to play much more of a leadership role in making it clear to spectators that racist abuse and racist chanting are unacceptable in football and other games. Specifically, I want the Football Association to support more strongly the Commission for Racial Equality campaign, "Let's Kick Racism out of Football." Some clubs have done a great deal. Sheffield Wednesday, of which my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton) is director, has played a leading role but there is more to be done. The fact that individual black men and women in football and other sports cannot speak as openly about it as they would like does not mean that it is not still an issue.

One cannot play sport as a competitor for ever, so some thought should also be given to how possible it is for black sportsmen who leave active sport to move on to coaching and management. Strangely, there is not one black coach or manager in the football league at present. If we are good enough to play, why are we not good enough to manage or coach?

I have already said how significant sport and sportsmen are for our young people, especially the type of young people in Hackney whom I represent. On issues such as racism, sportsmen can play a leadership role and encourage values. It is time to end the conspiracy of silence, and time for people with influence in sport, such as the sports administrators and some of my colleagues in the House, to take a more positive lead. When apartheid was still in place in South Africa, it used to be fashionable among Tory Members of Parliament to say that we should

Column 1272

not mix sport and politics. But sport has always played a role in society--setting standards, inculcating values and demonstrating what society believes in.

Not everyone in the House remembers the 1936 Olympics, but we all know what happened there, when Jesse Owens, the black American sprinter, won four gold medals and said more by his performance than anyone could have said in words about the shame and indignity of Nazism and about segregation in his own country, the United States of America. If sporting administrators and people of influence in sport--important people such as Members of Parliament--took racism and racist abuse more seriously and gave a lead, that would say more than mere words and speeches ever could about what we as a society think about equality and justice for all people, regardless of their colour.

1.51 pm

Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cirencester and Tewkesbury): I am sorry to have to follow the hon. Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), because I profoundly disagree with what she said. The Minister of State picked up on an item this morning in the "Today" programme--I do not know whether the hon. Lady heard it--about Devon Malcolm in Soweto encouraging young black Africans to take part in sport. They are turning up in their thousands to see the English cricket team, and trying to emulate them.

Surely that is a classic example of how sport can start to break down the ethnic and social barriers. People who play team sports and other sports have to rub shoulders with each other. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. It seems to me that that breaks down ethnic and social barriers more quickly than almost anything else. Ms Abbott rose --

Mr. Clifton-Brown: I shall give way to the hon. Lady, but time is short.

Ms Abbott: Time is short, but I cannot believe that the hon. Gentleman was listening to what I said. The question I asked about what happened to Devon Malcolm was: why should someone who plays with such courage for England, and who is doing good work in South Africa, have to read the sort of slur that he saw in Wisden Cricket Monthly , implying that simply because of the colour of his skin he was not playing his heart out for England? That was my point, and the hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Clifton-Brown) could not have been listening to it.

Mr. Clifton-Brown: I hear what the hon. Lady says. Nevertheless, probably 25 per cent. of our cricket team are now from ethnic backgrounds. I remember when Basil d'Oliveira was one of the first ethnic people to play in our cricket team, but now we are becoming a multi-ethnic sporting nation, and we are all the better for it. We should play up those advantages rather than always emphasising the divisions in our society.

I warmly welcome the policy and the document issued today. The Prime Minister wrote in the preamble:

"My ambition is simply stated. It is to put sport back at the heart of weekly life in every school."

Column 1273

He also said that he wanted

"to bring every child in every school within reach of adequate sporting facilities by the year 2000."

That is an exemplary goal for which to aim.

Many hon. Members have said that throughout our history we have not been especially well equipped with sporting attributes. We have forgotten the lessons that the Greeks and Romans taught us about the necessity for physical fitness and sporting competition as part of a complete education. We forgot that during the 1960s and 1970s, when so many other ills affected our education system. The nation was deemed to be very unfit during recruitment for the second world war, and that is why the training and recreation legislation stated that sport should be given a greater priority.

My hon. Friend the Minister pointed out that television and other media aids have resulted in children today spending far too much time in a sedentary way of life, instead of a physical way of life in which sport is the primary activity. I have thought for a long time that the school day of 8.30 am to 3.30 pm is far too short, and I welcome the teachers who are good enough to give up their time off for free to teach extra-curricular sporting activities. That is to be welcomed, and teachers should where necessary be rewarded for doing that.

I realise that time is getting on, and I shall make my remarks very brief. I should like to bring to the attention of the Minister a problem with a school in my constituency. It is an excellent school, which caters for children aged from eight to 16 years, and it has built a lavish sports hall. The hall was built following a great community effort and with the assistance of grants from the Foundation for Sport and the Arts and the Sports Council. The school, which is grant-maintained, has now run into a problem with VAT. It received a grant from the Department for Education and Employment to cover an increase in VAT, but a condition of the original grants from the two bodies was that the school had to use the hall for the local community. That is quite right, and everyone would expect that. But the school has run into the VAT trap. If more than 10 per cent. of the use of the hall is by the community, the school will get clobbered for VAT on the entire capital value--including the grants--of the sports hall. In this case, the VAT would amount to some £40,000 or £50,000.

I have taken the matter up with the Department for Education and Employment and with Her Majesty's Customs and Excise, but I have not received satisfactory replies. I urge my hon. Friend the Minister--who knows about the problem as I have spoken to him about it privately--to make representations to the Treasury to see whether we can find a way round the problem. It would be unfortunate for all that community effort to be jeopardised.

I welcome a number of things in the paper, and I shall mention one or two in the time available. I particularly welcome the fact that the national lottery is to put £300 million into sport, of which £100 million will go to a new national academy. I wish to make one or two suggestions for that academy. The sports councils were required to submit a plan, as my hon. Friend said, by September, but it has not been mentioned whether that was adhered to.

Column 1274

The tenders are to be let by mid-1996, and we hope that the national academy will be built fairly soon thereafter. I hope that that timetable does not slip too much.

The national academy should be built along the lines of the excellent academies that we have. We must look at them and see which sports are well represented, and we must make sure that other sports that are not so well represented at present are included in the national academy.

My hon. Friend the Minister has been to Adelaide to look at its national academy, and I hope that our academy will provide scholarships to allow our best and most talented sportsmen to go to foreign institutes of sporting excellence. By doing that, we can start to encourage exchange visits to our academy, so that our young sportsmen can mix with sportsmen from other countries. They will gain enormously from doing so.

The policy document encourages all schoolchildren to take a greater part in sport. It also mentions the further and higher education sector, where the greatest improvements could be made. There are 3 million students in further and higher education, yet only 20,000 of them regularly entered college competitions in 1993-94. We should encourage children not only to take part in school sports but voluntarily to continue their sporting activities into further and higher education and throughout their adult lives.

I commend my hon. Friend's actions in respect of the national lottery, which are an excellent way of starting to improve the nation's sporting abilities. The Chipping Campden swimming pool complex in my constituency has just been given a grant of £109,000 to improve its facilities for the benefit of not only that school but the whole community.

Like the hon. and learned Member for Fife, North-East (Mr. Campbell), I am keen that the excellent sporting facilities provided basically by public money through the lottery should be fully utilised. It is no use having a wonderful sports facility that is used only partly, during the day. It should be used during the day, in the evening and before breakfast as well. The lottery is beginning to involve local communities in that way. Deer Park school in Cirencester is an example of a way of encouraging children, adolescents and adults to participate in sport throughout their lives.

The whole nation feels better when we have a great sports triumph. We all remember England winning the World cup in 1966. We all feel joy when one of our football teams takes the European cup or when our sportsmen and women win Olympic gold medals. I hope that we shall win medals in profusion at next year's Olympics in Atlanta. I have no doubt that my hon. Friend's policy document will sow the seeds for the future, so that at successive Olympics--and I hope that we may look forward to the Olympic games being staged in London in 2004--sportsmen and women from all ethnic backgrounds representing the United Kingdom will be well up in the league table of gold, silver and bronze medals. That would be no small tribute to the work of my hon. Friend the Minister and of the Government in producing their policy statement.

2.1 pm

Mr. Alan Keen (Feltham and Heston): I am sorry that the hon. Member for Stockton, South (Mr. Devlin) has left the Chamber because his speech filled me with

Column 1275

nostalgia, when he mentioned the disabled and Thornaby. I remember playing table tennis against The Teesside Deaf team on many occasions. We had some great battles. They made up for the disadvantage of not being able to hear the ball bounce and come off the bat by making a tremendous noise throughout the game. I send them my best wishes all these years later.

I do not have time fully to combat the remarks of the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Greenway), but I know that the Labour group on Ealing council would not be cutting back on sport and sports grounds were it not under such pressure from central Government. It is unfair to attack the council on that basis.

Sport is an integral part of the lives of many people, but many others have dropped it. We must encourage them to participate in sport again. For me as a youngster, sport was my one interest in life when there was little else to do. It is more necessary these days than for many years that people have the opportunity to involve themselves in sport--and not just youngsters. I was delighted to come out of cricket retirement last season, to be rewarded by a place on the Lords and Commons tour of South Africa. We enjoyed ourselves greatly and made some tremendous links. I was pleased to see the England team playing on the same Alexandra Township ground that we used, and at which the Prime Minister opened new facilities earlier this year. The England team opened the pavilion that was being built while we were there. Such links are well worth while.

I shall probably never reach the Opposition Front Bench, and even if I did it would be an anticlimax after sitting on the front bench so often at Premier league football grounds--frequently next to Jack Charlton in my previous life as a tactical scout for Middlesbrough. So I do not mind too much if I never reach the Front Bench here. I am happy to see the Premier league flourishing. Grounds are full, television gives the game great prominence, and the world's best players are coming to England for the first time in ages. All that is good.

We should also give some credit to the press. Good reporting has taken some of the heat and hatred out of games. It is useful to hear people such as Brian Glanville and Patrick Barclay discussing tactics before and after games, letting fans know that there is more to football than just bashing the ball from end to end. In the past, bad reporting gave the impression that a game played in September was the decider for the championship of London. That just gets fans agitated before the game even starts.

The good reporting that I have just mentioned contrasts starkly with the disgraceful--although tongue-in-cheek--article in the Evening Standard the other week criticising the transfer of Juninho to Middlesbrough. I welcome him and his family to Britain. He will bring flair, and more, to English football, strengthening our sporting links with other nations. I congratulate Middlesbrough club too. Bill King, chair of the Vauxhall Conference, addressed those of us who serve on the Back-Bench football committee the other night. It was good to hear his attitude to maintaining the links between schools throughout the country, even in what are not always thought of as footballing areas. The conference provides the links to clubs through the process of relegation and promotion through to the football league. I agreed with the Minister about the need to involve teachers and to take some of

Column 1276

the other pressures off them so that they can participate again as they used to when I was a youngster. That will help football to flourish.

I welcome the Minister's commitment to consultations on the centres of excellence. I am not completely comfortable with the whole idea. We do not want youngsters to be isolated from the rest of society. They need to be involved in normal school life and not start to think that they are special --that could harm them more than help them. I am sorry that it took Mr. Murdoch and Sir John Hall to bring about the new thinking in rugby. I am also sorry that the hon. Member for Suffolk, Central (Mr. Lord) said what he said. I was going to use the words "bone-headed prejudice", but perhaps I will not after all. I understand his views; people have enjoyed the sport as it is for many years and change is always difficult.

As for boxing, I voted against banning it the last time a vote was held. I am finding it hard now to sustain my point of view. As the hon. Member for Ealing, North said, swift moves must be taken to improve the sport; otherwise public opinion against it will become so strong that it will be hard to resist.

No one should doubt the value of sport. The youngsters in the townships of South Africa are in the same position as I was as a young child: sport is the only thing there is. I do not say for a moment that sport is all that is necessary to make South Africa flourish. It needs inward investment as well, but sport is playing a huge part, and I am proud that Britain has played her part in helping the townships of South Africa. I am sure that sport will help South Africa to flourish, to the benefit, eventually, of the whole of Africa.

2.9 pm

Mr. Piers Merchant (Beckenham): As the general election reached its climax, I remember knocking on the door of one of my would-be constituents to introduce myself. I was greeted by a rather unhealthy-looking gentleman who said, "I don't have time to talk to you now because I am watching the election on television." That starkly brought home to me my personal lack of appeal and the grip that television has on people's lives. In many instances they seem to prefer to live in the fantasy world that is presented to them on the box than to experience reality. Anything that can be done to get people out of their chairs to engage in a healthy pursuit is a positive move. What can be better than sport?

I very much welcome the remarks of my hon. Friend the Minister and the paper that he published before the summer recess. The document sets out many major steps forward. It has been warmly welcomed in my constituency, which is especially well endowed with sporting facilities. For example, there is the national sports centre at Crystal Palace. It has been a centre of sporting activity for about 130 years. The original British Olympian Association was based there. W. G. Grace played there. Cup finals before the first world war were held there. It has been a national sports centre for just over 30 years. There are excellent facilities, including a large stadium, an Olympic-size swimming pool and a large sports hall. It manages to combine the staging of major international events alongside important community provision. It is so large that it is able to keep community provision running even when international

Column 1277

events are taking place. The centre is an important facility for my constituents and the borough and for the surrounding parts of London. It is strategically situated at the boundary point of five different boroughs.

Secondly, there is tennis at Beckenham each year. The event has been running since the last century and it is one of the major tennis events in the country. Indeed, it is an international event. It is privately sponsored and attracts the leading world players. Thirdly, there is a profusion of private clubs and private provision. Some of the most well- known clubs in the country are based at Beckenham. The Park Langley club, for example, recently won a national award. There are also three major sports grounds attached to three international British-based banks. They are all in the small area of my constituency. I have an interest in sport, therefore, as have the majority of my constituents.

Fourthly, there is the role of the local authority. Bromley has a reputation of being one of the leading local authorities for the provision of sport. It carries out best practice. I hope that in the implementation of the policies that flow from my hon. Friend's paper he will take into account best practice and examples of the good provision that already exists. That point was raised by the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Miss Hoey) most persuasively, along with other valid comments, including the importance of reinvigorating school sport teaching. It is clear that the role of local authorities is important.

Despite the national sports centre's great reputation and past, it has problems, and two specific ones have been identified. First, it is in desperate need of modernisation in parts. An examination of the facilities immediately demonstrates that. The second problem is that it is funded entirely by the Sports Council. It cannot have access to any national lottery money because the Sports Council is a distributor. The centre is missing out when other comparative facilities in the area can attract generous funding. I hope that my hon. Friend will be able to find some way of getting round that problem, of rearranging the structure or detaching the national sports centres from the Sports Council, in a way that will enable them to get their fair share of national lottery money. They are not asking for any more than their fair share, but they are in danger of being left behind by an unfortunate anomaly.

The national sports centre has another problem: access. That cannot be entirely solved. It happens, historically, to be in a place that was once very accessible, which is why the Crystal Palace was originally built there and why for many decades it attracted millions of Londoners every weekend, and, indeed, during the week as well. But the way in which transport has developed and the way in which the population has grown makes the area difficult to access now. I hope that means can be found to encourage the five London boroughs involved to work together more effectively to improve the road system that feeds Crystal Palace--it could feasibly be improved-- and that the rail operators will consider ways of ensuring better services to the railway station there. I believe that, with co-ordination and encouragement, that could be developed to overcome the problem. I now return to my comments about local authorities and will give a few examples of the way in which the London borough of Bromley has been so effective. Its own strategy document, "Building Partnerships through

Column 1278

Sport", has provided a broad framework for encouraging sporting provision in Bromley and has stressed partnership opportunities. Bromley has a sports partnership fund, which is used to enable that to happen, and in particular an active lifestyles project, which is designed to encourage sport as a means of building health in the community. That has been praised by the Health Education Authority, which has described Bromley as a model borough. There are many examples of partnership with private operators to enable extra money to be put into sport in the borough. The result is that Bromley, which enters a full range of sporting events between boroughs, has succeeded in winning, for example, the swimming championship every year for the past nine years. It also plays an active role in the London youth games, which are held annually at the national sports centre at Crystal Palace.

For all those reasons, my hon. Friend's policies and his Department's policy document have been warmly welcomed in my borough. I hope that in implementing it he will take into account the points that I have made and the importance of the contribution that local authorities are making to sport, and that he will use the policies to encourage best practice to be followed even more, because I think that the entire population will be the beneficiaries from encouraging sport more readily, and my hon. Friend will get the credit that he deserves for giving the excellent lead that he has given in this area.

2.17 pm

Mr. Pendry: With the leave of the House, I begin by saying that this has been a very good debate. I am pleased that everyone who has wished to speak has been able to do so. That means by definition that both myself and the Minister will not be able to reply as much as we would like to the many points that have been made.

I hope that I was not too destructive in my opening remarks. I did not intend to be. I really meant, of course, that there is much in the document that we embrace. I was merely making the point that I recognised some of the parts of it from yesteryear.

Will the Minister clarify the status of the document when he replies? He calls it a consultative document; the hon. Member for Stockton, South (Mr. Devlin) calls it a White Paper; the Prime Minister calls it a press conference document; and the paper calls itself a policy statement. It would be nice if we knew exactly what it was.

I must say to the hon. Member for Suffolk, Central (Mr. Lord) that I will not talk behind his back. I will not talk about what he said at all, only because of time--no discourtesy.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton), of course, knows a great deal about soccer, being a director of Sheffield Wednesday, but I concurred much more with my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) on football shirts for youngsters. I think that the pressure is on the families and on the mothers in particular, and that should be looked at.

The hon. Member for Beckenham (Mr. Merchant) raised the question of the national stadium and many hon. Members pitched in with a good deal of passion. My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Miss Hoey) was rightly concerned about London being the rightful place for the

Column 1279

national stadium. The hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mr. Coombs) was concerned that it should go to Birmingham, and the Sheffield case was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw. The bids that I have seen are all good and I should not like to be the person to have to make the decision.

The hon. and learned Member for Fife, North-East (Mr. Campbell) always makes a thoughtful contribution to such debates and I always enjoy them because he speaks with experience. I was pleased that he raised the plight of his constituent, an athlete with disabilities. He was right to make that distinction in the definition. The hon. and learned Gentleman, the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Mr. Coe) and I have written to a number of companies in an attempt to assist the Paralympics competitors to get to Atlanta. We have received some response, but not enough. When a review is made of the lottery, it should consider the hon. and learned Gentleman's case for a trust fund for athletes, not only for those with disabilities, but for young athletes who cannot make some of the meets that they need to attend in order to progress.

My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall, as well as making a passionate plea for London, made a number of other interesting points, including one about football and sleaze, with which she has been very much involved. She may not receive much satisfaction from the Minister of State, but the Labour party will shortly issue its football charter, which addresses the sort of issues that she has raised.

I think that I may have lost the friendship of the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Greenway) half way through the debate. The Labour-controlled authority in which his constituency resides faces some difficult choices. It is difficult to pinpoint any particular authority--Labour or Conservative--that makes those difficult choices. I urge him to join me in making representations to the Minister of State to have circular 909 repealed--that would be a much more satisfactory way forward.

The subject of boxing has been placed in context. I declare an interest as a steward of the British Boxing Board of Control and chairman of the safety committee which, only this week, issued new safety guidelines. I am sure that hon. Members will have read them and realised that they are a step forward. I hope that I do not lose my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston (Mr. Keen) in the Lobby--I do not want to ban boxing as that would drive it underground and it would be a far more dangerous sport.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney, North and Stoke Newington was right to raise the issue of racism in sport. I am pleased to have been associated with the campaign, "Let's Kick Racism out of Football." The FA, the Professional Footballers Association, the premiership and football supporters are all joining together on that issue. The Labour party's document on football clearly tackles that problem.

I knew that my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston used to be a scout for Middlesbrough, and I am pleased that that team is doing so well, but I did not know of his cricketing prowess. I must talk to him more about that. I know that he is a keen sportsman. I would not rule out the possibility of his finishing up on the Front Bench--he is far too modest.

Column 1280

I have a great deal of affection for the Minister of State--it may not always have come through in the debate, but I think that he is a good Minister and cares about sport. He puts in effort and I wish him well in his endeavours. He will have a few battles ahead, not just with the Department for Education and Employment, but possibly with the Treasury as well. I wish him well; we all wish to see a much better deal for sport in this country. The document points the right way on many issues and when the Minister of State faces that battle he can rely on our support.

2.23 pm

Mr. Sproat: With the leave of the House, Madam Deputy Speaker, perhaps I may say a few words in reply.

I should first thank the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry) for his kind words at the end of his speech. The hon. Member for Vauxhall (Miss Hoey) said that we tried to keep party politics out of this subject and today's debate shows that we succeed, more or less. Having made a long speech at the beginning of the debate, it is right that I have only a short time left in which to reply, and I will not be able to answer all the points raised. I have taken note of the issues relating to revenue funding and the need to support athletes.

I shall set at rest the mind of the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde about what the paper is called-- not that it matters a cuss what it is called because it is the biggest revolution in sport in 50 years. It is a policy statement and my wise officials tell me that it was not published as a White Paper because a price must be put on such a document and it must be distributed through Her Majesty's Stationery Office.

We wanted to send the document free to every school in the country, which is what we did. We originally printed about 70,000 copies but had to print another 15,000. If it had been a White Paper, not a word in it would have been different--except for the price on the front cover.

The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde was a little grudging when he said that four months had elapsed since the publication of the document. It is actually 15 working days of the House, but whether it is four months or 15 days it is now with us. I want to make it clear that we did not mention the very important needs of the disabled in the paper for the same reason that we did not concentrate specifically on individual sports or matters of gender or race. The policy statement is for people of all abilities. Those are the words that we use in, I think, paragraph 3, although I do not make my defence on that. Of course we realise the importance of supporting the disabled and shall continue to do that. I have taken on board the remarks by the hon. and learned Member for Fife, North-East (Mr. Campbell) about Miss Caroline Innes. He had the courtesy to tell me about that case and if he will write to me about it, I shall do everything that I possibly can.

I became so concerned about your predecessor in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, sitting on the edge of his seat after I had been speaking for a mere one hour and seven minutes that I cut my speech and did not say what I should have said about the regional councils for sport and recreation and the important role that I see for ministerial nominees. I want such nominees to continue,

Column 1281

but as members of the sports councils in the regions. They will be rather like, although not absolutely the same as, non-executive directors of a subsidiary company. I or whoever makes the choice will choose five of those nominees from the 10 regions to sit on the English Sports Council so that there will always be a proper relationship between what people are thinking in the regions and what they are thinking at the centre.

I want the Sports Council and the regions to play an ever more important role and to concentrate on making certain that schools are doing all that they can for sport and that the links between clubs and schools become closer and more effective. That is why I have said that the Sports Council and the regions should step back from the old regional councils for sport and recreation. Local authorities will still be free to set up their own new forums, but I do not want to have national sports policy twisted and diverted--no doubt in many cases it would be well twisted--to the needs of local authorities. The Sports Council has the precise aims that I have set out in the policy statement and I want it to concentrate on that and not get tied up in producing yet another strategy paper for sport and leisure in the next five years or for whatever period. I see important roles for the Sports Council, the regions and the ministerial nominees. School playing fields have been mentioned yet again. I make it clear that the freedom given to schools to dispose in certain cases of their assets, subject to guidance from the Department for Education and Employment, was a good extension of their freedom. But that freedom, which was right in principle, operated badly and resulted in the selling of too many playing fields. We are currently consulting on the matter and I hope that in future the Sports Council will become a statutory consultee on whether a school playing field or any other playing field should be sold. It will be able to say no and its advice will have to be considered when decisions are made.

Column 1282

As well as stopping, I hope, the gratuitous selling of school playing fields we are making national lottery money available to buy back ground--not the same ground, obviously, because if a supermarket has been built on a former playing field it cannot be bought back, but an equivalent amount elsewhere for school playing fields. That is roughly how it will work.

We have here new structures--the United Kingdom Sports Council and the English Sports Council--and the enhanced role of the Sports Council in the regions. We will have new money from the national lottery. I hope that it is not just capital and that we will find a way to give some revenue funding, pace the hon. and learned Member for Fife, North-East. The British academy of sport will be one way of helping top athletes.

We have the structure, the money and the vision, from schools right the way through to international excellence and gold medals. That is what the country has needed for a long time. I hope that the House will feel that it is getting that in this paper and I am extremely grateful--

Next Section

Home Page