| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
6.53 pm
Mr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East): I am delighted to follow the Liberal Democrats' spokesman, and I am happy to hear that he takes the position that his party has outlined, especially as that means taking a separate view from its sister party in Northern Ireland, the Alliance party, which today attacked the Government for this measure. I think that his position is much more understandable and will be much better understood by Northern Ireland's people.
The hon. and learned Gentleman and other hon. Members have rightly put their finger on the key issue that the House is considering: the necessity for the Bill.
The predecessor of this measure was introduced because of the dire emergency in Northern Ireland. It was clear that the normal processes could not cope with the circumstances with which they were faced. The House therefore thought it proper to introduce measures to take into account the emergency that arose because of terrorism in Northern Ireland.
We must consider whether circumstances have changed so much that the measure is no longer necessary. It is right that every one of us will be delighted that there has been a dramatic reduction in the number of killings and injuries of people in Northern Ireland, but it falls short of being peace. If one accepts the term "a peace process", by its very nature, that process may ultimately lead to peace but, at this stage, it is certainly not peace. Some of us believe that it is more of a tactical process for the Provisional IRA. We consider first its ceasefire statement, which says that it is not a permanent cessation of violence, but that is intended to be a complete cessation of military operations.
I remember that, for some weeks, perhaps months, everyone debated the difference between "complete" and
"permanent". It was probably best put by the hon. and learned Member for North Down (Mr. McCartney), who said that, while his car came to a complete standstill at traffic lights, it did not stay there permanently. Of course, the IRA retains the ability to start the violence again if it should so desire.
Over the past weeks and months, we have seen that the Provisional IRA has started that violence again. None of us is impressed that it uses the drugs issue as the excuse for removing from its community people whom it has a gripe against, and not because of drugs but because of many other issues in its community. We must therefore consider whether the present circumstances need an emergency provisions Bill.
The hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis) dealt at some length with the Provisional IRA's weapons stockpile. Apart from that considerable stockpile, its representatives have made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of handing those weapons in. I am not sure whether an arms commission can sweet-talk the guns out of the Provisional IRA's hands. I doubt it very much, but the fact that, when we are taking a decision on the Bill, the IRA is saying that it has those guns and is not handing them over, leads everyone to believe that it has some future use for those weapons.
I feel uncomfortable with the fact that, in many other areas, the state has been prepared to dismantle its apparatus of defence of our community while the terrorist organisations still keep intact their apparatus to attack the community. Some months ago, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland told the House that the IRA was still recruiting, still developing new weapons, still fund-raising, still training and still targeting. No doubt he obtains his information from intelligence sources, and few of us will question it. If all of those things are going on in the paramilitary organisations, it is clear that the IRA is still capable of carrying out the same sort of heinous crimes that it has carried out for a generation. Those circumstances make our decision relatively easy.
I agree with the hon Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone that there is a distinction between the Provisional IRA's position and that of the loyalist paramilitary
organisations. The first distinction appeared in their ceasefire statements. The Provisional IRA could not bring itself to end its violence permanently. The loyalist organisations were prepared to do so on condition that the Provisional IRA did so. The IRA could not bring itself to say there would be no further violence, but the loyalist organisations said that they would not start any violence provided that the Provisional IRA did not either.
Those loyalist organisations have not gone as far as anyone in the House would want, but they have moved further than the Provisional IRA, and they deserve whatever credit can possibly be given to such organisations. However, they still retain weapons that have killed in the past, and could kill in the future, innocent people in Northern Ireland. Those loyalist organisations must be included in the equation in the same way as the Provisional IRA.
The equipment exists to carry out and continue a terrorist campaign. There are almost daily threats from Sinn Fein leaders who tell us that the peace process is in danger and about to collapse, leaving everyone to conclude that that is the case and that the Provisional IRA intends to pick up its weapons and start placing its bombs once again. In those circumstances, there is only one decision that the House can take.
The events of the past weeks, including the many beatings that have taken place--the numbers have increased since before the ceasefire--and the recent killings, are all breaches of the ceasefire. We should not be reluctant to state that clearly. If the Provisional IRA's ceasefire requires its military operations to come to a complete standstill, sending its gunmen out to kill people--no matter which cause it claims as justification-- is a breach of that ceasefire. Constitutional politicians should not pretend that those crimes are not taking place. We must establish clearly that the IRA's ceasefire is being breached; the Government are duty bound to deliver that message clearly and publicly.
I find it difficult to reach the same conclusion as the hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone--that the arms commission has been given an impossible timetable. I believe that it has been given an impossible task, given that the Provisional IRA is not disposed to handing over its weapons. It would be helpful if, when replying to the debate, the Minister could state whether the arms commission has requested an extension of time, whether it faces difficulties because of the circumstances outlined earlier and whether, if the timetable were extended, it might be able to achieve a satisfactory outcome.
Dr. Joe Hendron (Belfast, West):
I oppose the Bill because I believe that the oppressive legislation that we have had for the past 25 years has been counter-productive and has helped paramilitary organisations. I pose two questions to the House. Have we a ceasefire? Have we a peace process? I shall answer those questions shortly.
A Protestant lady, Miss Margaret Wright, who was thought to be a Catholic, was brutally murdered shortly before the IRA and loyalist ceasefires. But I shall now tell the House of the recent murders committed by the Provisional IRA, most of which have occurred in the city of Belfast--some of the victims were either from, or had lived in, my constituency.
Mickey Mooney, aged 34, was murdered by the IRA on 20 April last year--before the ceasefire. Tony Kane, aged 29, was murdered by the IRA on 5 September last. He was shot dead as he sat behind the wheel of his car outside a Catholic church in west Belfast. Paul Devine was murdered by the IRA on 8 December and Francis Collins was also murdered by the IRA on 18 December.
Christopher Johnston, also known as Syd, was murdered by the IRA on 19 December. Martin McCrory was murdered at Turf Lodge in the heart of my constituency just after Christmas--on 27 December. He was shot as he watched television in his home with his three-year-old son beside him. Ian Lyons was murdered in Lurgan on 2 January as he sat with his girl friend in a car outside her parents' home.
How do I know that the IRA carried out those murders? There has been a fair bit of discussion on the subject. I have spoken to relatives of some of the victims, who are in no doubt that the Provos were responsible. My constituents in west Belfast have no doubt about the IRA's involvement.
I spoke to relatives of Paul Devine, who had spent 18 months in gaol and had been released just a few months before he was murdered. While he was in prison, a member of his family went to Sinn Fein's headquarters in Andersonstown, known as Connolly house, and told a senior Sinn Fein member that he believed that Paul was going to be shot by the IRA following his release from prison. He was obviously trying to ensure that that did not happen. Following his release, Paul was warned by the police that his life was in danger from the IRA--the rest is history.
The debate is about the emergency provisions Bill. Surely we have learnt something after 25 years of violence and civil strife. Powers of arrest and detention were often exercised, not to bring suspects before a court of justice to make them answer to a process of law, but to gather information and to invade, unjustifiably, the privacy of a person's life. Between 1978 and 1982, more than 22,000 people were arrested and interrogated--the vast majority were released without charge. Emergency legislation has been at the heart of Northern Ireland's legal structures since partition. Clearly, such a position is ultimately unsustainable, and surely the lesson is clear: a basis for political consensus must be found.
I shall vote against the Bill because the emergency provisions Acts have totally failed to provide an effective mechanism to defeat paramilitary organisations and because the power of internment would remain on the statute book. Reference has been made to the Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights, chaired by a senior lawyer, Mr. Michael Lavery. That commission advises the Secretary of State on civil liberty issues and has said that it regrets the Government's decision to renew the emergency provisions Act in its entirety for another two years.
The commission placed great emphasis on the fact that powers of internment, non-jury Diplock courts and admissibility of confessions would remain in place. Mr. Michael Lavery QC, the chairman, has said that, with sustained peace for 16 months, a significant opportunity exists to enhance the protection of individuals' rights and civil liberties.
The Committee on the Administration of Justice, which has already been mentioned, is an independent, cross-community organisation, involved in working to protect civil liberties. It also opposed the renewal of the legislation and said that there was not a state of emergency at present.
I am aware of the comments of the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson). Like him, I am very conscious of the recent brutal murders in the city of Belfast, but the question is whether there is an emergency in the state of Northern Ireland at this point in time. I do not think so. But there is a peace process--granted it has been faltering a little recently--and therefore emergency legislation like this Bill is unhelpful. I have carefully studied the EPA review by Mr. John Rowe QC, who rightly emphasises that he plays no part in any peace process or negotiations, and that he is not bound by any Government policies.
The people of Ireland are divided by history. We therefore need political debate and meaningful dialogue-- not draconian legislation. Over the years, members of the security forces who were involved in inevitable confrontation--I emphasise "inevitable" confrontation-- with young people became recruiting sergeants for the IRA, the Ulster Defence Association, and the Ulster Volunteer Force. The situations surrounding the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four arose from pressure exerted on the legal process to solve terrorist actions.
The father of Gerry Conlon, Giuseppe Conlon, who had been a patient of mine, was allowed to die in prison in England. Like his son, he was a totally innocent person. His widow Mrs. Sarah Conlon, who is my friend, has never received an apology from the British Government. Even after all these years, compensation for Gerry and his mother is yet to be finalised. I would greatly appreciate it if the Minister took that matter up with the Home Secretary. Quite a number of years have now passed and it is immoral that compensation for Gerry Conlon and Mrs. Sarah Conlon--who lives in the heart of my constituency and is one of the loveliest people I have ever met--has not been finalised. I cannot speak for the Birmingham Six or other members of the Guildford Four.
In theory, the law may be the same for civilians and members of the security forces, but in practice it is quite different. Both Private Ian Thain and Private Lee Clegg were found guilty of murder, but each was released after about two years in prison. In contrast, Patrick Kane, Michael Timmons and Sean Kelly, who did not murder anyone, were sentenced to life imprisonment.
The three unarmed IRA members who were slaughtered in Gibraltar in March 1988 could easily have been arrested. As we know, they had been followed for some days. Like many others, I was shocked by the speech made by the Secretary of State for Defence at the Tory party conference some months ago when he glorified the exploits and disposition of the SAS.
I return to the point with which I started. The IRA's ceasefire is only partial. It no longer shoots members of security forces, but it seems to be all right to murder members of the nationalist community.
I spent 30 years as a medical practitioner in west Belfast and for 20 years I have been an elected politician. I know many of the people there, so I can speak with some authority on the matter. Why has the IRA murdered the young men to whom I have referred? It is nothing to do with drugs. The Provos want to reassert their power base in nationalist housing estates. They greatly fear normality. Indeed, it is what they fear most. They are not worried about the legislation going through the House today--it is normality they fear. Above all, they want to discredit the police: in fact, they want to be the police-- those who deal with law and order in the area.
Repressive legislation has indirectly led to many young people from both communities getting involved with paramilitaries. The republican leadership must put an end to murder, assault and intimidation. Those leaders have no right to order young people or their parents to report to the local Sinn Fein office. That happens virtually every day of the week in west Belfast, and I cannot see how the Bill will do anything about it. Every day somebody has to report to a Sinn Fein office, yet they say that they have nothing to do with the IRA. If the republican leadership want to be treated as democrats, they must respect democracy.
Part of the background to the debate concerns the peace process and the twin-track process; it is all intertwined. That twin-track process launched by the two Prime Ministers must remain Government policy. In recent correspondence that I have had with the Prime Minister, he has once again referred to the end of February as the agreed time for all-party negotiations.
Reference has been made to Senator George Mitchell and his colleagues, who have an important job to do. The hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis) has described it as a mission impossible. Certainly, what the Provos have been up to recently makes the task of Senator Mitchell and his colleagues very difficult. Like others, I am sure that, if Senator Mitchell and his colleagues requested a few more weeks in which to produce their report, both Governments would agree. I made a short submission to Senator Mitchell and his colleagues that I hope will be helpful.
All parties, including Sinn Fein, must be involved in continuing dialogue. The people of Northern Ireland will never forgive us if we do not sustain the peace process. The agenda for all-party talks should continue to include the three main relationships--those between the two communities in the north, between the north and the south, and of course between Britain and Ireland. Let us not play into the hands of those who want to destroy the peace process. We must be responsible in our words, actions and legislation.
The police in Northern Ireland have had an impossible task over the past 25 years. Policing in a community divided by history is not easy. The direct association of the police force with repressive legislation has made total acceptability in the nationalist community impossible. I say that as somebody who has co-operated with the police on virtually a daily basis for many years. I have nothing but respect for the great majority of them.
It is a fact of life, however, that on the nationalist housing estates of Belfast, and indeed in the nationalist communities right across the north of Ireland, people of course co-operate with the police on a day-to-day basis but have difficulties in accepting them. Although that subject is for another day, I add that the problem is to do with the police having identified with one section of the community. I appreciate that there have been improvements in recent times, but there is a major debate going on concerning that subject. Solutions concerning politics and security are inextricably linked.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |