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9.51 pm
Sir Hector Monro (Dumfries): I am grateful to have the opportunity to say a few words from the Conservative Benches, because it is important that the constituents of Dumfries and of Galloway and Upper Nithsdale realise that we too are concerned about the events of recent weeks. I shall look forward to hearing what my hon. Friend the Minister of State for the Armed Forces can tell us about recent developments.
I appreciate and welcome the fact that the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes) had a meeting in my constituency, although at the time I was at Arlington cemetery for the ceremonies for the Lockerbie disaster.
While expressing concern as to what is going on, however, we should not go to the extent of causing alarm, until we have found out the reason for the appearance of the incendiaries, which largely landed up in the constituency of the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mrs. Michie).
It may be circumstantial evidence, but the incendiaries have lain on the sea bed for 50 years, until we started to plough it up, which makes me think that that might be why they have come to the surface after such a long time. I hope that the videos taken by the scientific staff working on the survey ship will disclose whether ploughing has disturbed ammunition and other explosives on the sea bed, and whether the incendiaries, which are lighter, have floated with the strong tide and currents in that part of the world, on to the Ayrshire and Argyll coasts.
I look forward to hearing what my hon. Friend the Minister has to say about the latest state of play and the latest information, whether from the Ministry of Defence or the Scottish Office. Like the other hon. Members present, I must point out that there has been some concern about getting a co-ordinated response from the Government on such an important issue.
Finally, I would like to echo the tribute that the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley paid to the local services for going into action at once to deal with the incendiaries on the beach, to minimise any further accidents that might have occurred. With such a large number on the beach, we are fortunate indeed that so few serious accidents took place.
The Minister of State for the Armed Forces (Mr. Nicholas Soames):
I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes) on securing the first Adjournment debate of the new Session--I cannot think of anyone whom I would rather see get it.
I welcome the remarks of the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mrs. Michie) and of my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries (Sir H. Monro). I wholly understand and endorse their concerns. I declare an interest in that part of the world as I have known bits of it extremely well in my capacity as a highly itinerant sportsman. I share their concern that the matter should be resolved.
I understand the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries who, as a distinguished and long-serving former Minister, will understand the difficulties that arise when more than one Department is engaged on a matter as complex as this. It seems as though co-ordination is not as good as it could be. I assure my right hon. Friend, as he will know and as I hope Opposition Members realise, that the co-ordination and co-operation between Departments has been extremely close.
I reassure the hon. Members for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley and for Argyll and Bute that all the matters that they have raised with which I do not deal in my speech, and those that relate to other Government Departments, will be dealt with comprehensively by letter tomorrow and we will let the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley have a more detailed reply about the assurance that he wanted.
I have listened carefully to the speech of the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley and I share his and his colleagues' legitimate concern about the phosphorous canisters that have been washed up on the beaches of that beautiful part of the world. The hon. Gentleman has been extremely assiduous in investigating the issues surrounding the matter, as all who know him
would expect. I know that, along with a delegation of other hon. Members, he met my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on 17 October. Further to that meeting, my right hon. Friend today wrote to those hon. Members with all the details that we have been able to gather on military sea dumping operations at Beaufort's dyke.
I welcome the recognition of the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley of the excellent work of the emergency services, which was wholly endorsed by the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Robertson). Other hon. Members have praised the emergency services, especially the service ordnance disposal teams, for dealing with these items and safeguarding members of the public. I am extremely glad to hear from the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute that young Gordon Baillie is making good progress and that he was so well looked after.
I welcome this chance to try to restore a sense of proportion. The hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley made a very reasonable and measured speech, but this is a matter that leads to alarmist speculation and I should like to restore some sense of proportion to the debate and clarify the situation, in so far as we are able to do so.
The incidents have provoked a great deal of understandable but sometimes highly alarmist speculation about dumping at Beaufort's dyke and the hazard that poses to health and safety and the environment. Claims that my Department has been secretive about past sea dumping operations and allegations of looming environmental disasters are wholly untrue, as today's extensive release of information shows.
In common with our European counterparts, my Department no longer disposes of redundant munitions by sea dumping. We ended all sea dumping in October 1992 in line with various international conventions and agreements to which we are party. The agreements reflect an international wish to phase out most kinds of waste disposal in the marine environment. Although that is to be welcomed, it would be quite wrong to apply today's standards to the situation facing the Government and the country in the years after the second world war when most of the munitions were, of necessity, dumped in Beaufort's dyke.
At that time, the dumping of munitions in deep water was a reasonable, wholly accepted and welcome method of disposal. It was used by all the allied powers to reduce the vast quantities of munitions remaining in Europe when hostilities ceased. Anyone who knows, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries does, of the unbelievable scale of the munitions that were around at that time will understand the scale of the problem and the need of the Government of the day to try to secure a return to more sensible levels of ammunition. The scale of the problem was such that at the end of the war, there were almost 2 million tonnes of munitions stored in the United Kingdom. It was necessary to reduce this amount quickly and safely to peacetime levels.
It being Ten o'clock, the motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn--[Mr. Bates.]
Mr. Soames:
There was never any secrecy about the dumping operations undertaken at Beaufort's dyke. A
Beaufort's dyke was our main sea dumping site for surplus and redundant munitions for many years. It was probably first used as early as 1920. With the exception of one emergency operation in 1976, dumping there ceased in 1973. We estimate that more than 1 million tonnes were disposed of at the site.
Surviving records confirm that between July and October 1945, some 14,600 tonnes of 5 in artillery rockets filled with phosgene were disposed of in Beaufort's dyke. There is, however, no evidence to suggest that any munitions containing nerve or biological warfare agents were dumped by my Department in Beaufort's dyke, the Irish sea or the north channel and we did not dispose of radioactive waste in those areas.
Part of Beaufort's dyke also operated as a licensed dump site for civil waste from 1974. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland provided details in his written answer of 26 October to the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. McGrady). I assure the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley that before dumping operations took place, great care was taken to pack the material so that it would sink to the sea bed and stay there.
Where possible, fuses were removed to minimise the risk of detonation. The weight of the munition cases alone would ensure that the material would, over time, compact itself on the sea bed. The risk of explosion is at its greatest with fused munitions during and immediately after dumping. It is reduced substantially with the passage of time and the corrosion and decomposition of fusing mechanisms. Nevertheless, our advice remains that any munition on the sea bed is potentially dangerous and should be left well alone, hence the restrictions put in place in 1945 to stop disturbance of the site.
The combined effects of dilution, dispersion, hydrolysis and low temperatures act to reduce the toxic potential of conventional explosives and other munition materials. The conclusion of investigations carried out by the United States navy in the early 1970s at disused deep water dumps in the Atlantic was that long-term effects on the marine environment appeared to be minimal. Similar conclusions were reached by the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Fisheries for Scotland in 1990 after it completed a survey of the explosive waste disposal site in the Firth of Clyde.
The potential hazards of sea bed dump sites which contain chemical warfare munitions and the question of whether there is a need for remedial action have been considered by both the Helsinki and Oslo-Paris commissions. The results of this work have been reported to the London convention, which is the principal international forum concerned with the disposal of wastes at sea. The consensus of international scientific opinion based on this work is that such sites present no significant risk to human health or the marine environment if left
undisturbed. Phosgene, the only chemical warfare agent known to have been disposed of in Beaufort's dyke, is destroyed by hydrolysis on contact with sea water and presents little risk to the marine environment.
The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food undertakes an extensive monitoring programme for contaminants in the UK marine environment and the results are published annually. In a previous incarnation at the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, I saw a good deal of that work, particularly that undertaken in those days at the laboratory at Aberdeen. Its analyses of fish and crustacea to date show that where any contaminants can be detected, the levels involved give no cause for concern.
As part of this work, samples were taken from Beaufort's dyke dumping ground this summer. The preliminary results show no degradation in water quality. In addition, on Monday, the Scottish Office marine laboratory began a survey that will include underwater television studies of Beaufort's dyke dumping ground. We will, of course, keep the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley closely informed of how that work goes.
During the survey, sea bed sediment and commercially exploited fish and crustacea samples will be collected and examined for any contamination that may be related to dumped materials.
A further survey of the north channel will take place next year, and that may include further work at Beaufort's dyke. As the hon. Gentleman said, quite rightly, the focus of concern in recent weeks in his part of the world has, of course, been the beaching of large numbers of phosphorous-impregnated canisters on the beaches. Isolated examples of similar items have been washed ashore in Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and on the western coast of Scotland for many years.
My Department and independent experts examined those objects in 1990, but at the time there was nothing to indicate that they had ever been issued to or used by the armed forces. Samples from the recent beachings did, however, provide evidence of a variety of munition features from which Ministry of Defence scientists have concluded that they are probably the solidified remains of the thickened flammable fills of British second world war incendiary bombs.
The effect of corrosion on the munition cases and chemical decomposition of the fillings, which usually lead to their breakdown and dispersal, have acted instead to make the fillings buoyant and therefore liable to float to the surface if disturbed.
The cause of this recent disturbance can only be a matter of conjecture, but there have been suggestions that recent pipeline work in the area was responsible. I would like to make it clear, however, that there is no direct evidence that this is the case. A contractor working for British Gas did, as the hon. Gentleman said, survey the proposed route north of the Beaufort's dyke dumping ground before the pipeline was laid and filmed metallic objects and other debris on the sea bed.
On 29 September, the contractor notified my Department that it intended to clear the proposed route. We advised against that in view of the possible risks to the pipe-laying vessel or other vessels in the vicinity, even though the material on the sea bed could not positively be identified from the available footage. However, and in
answer to one of the hon. Gentleman's questions, following confirmation that the Health and Safety Executive had accepted the company's own risk assessment for that work, and my Department having been satisfied that all appropriate measures had been taken to safeguard life and shipping, the work was allowed to continue.
The hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley is, of course, well aware of the survey that is currently being carried out by the Scottish Office, which is undertaking an underwater television survey of Beaufort's dyke dumping ground and is collecting samples from the sea bed for analysis.
I am plainly not in a position to comment further on that work, but I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland will ensure that the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley is kept informed of developments, as will my Department.
Procedures for dealing with old munitions that have been trawled up or washed ashore are well established. Appropriate guidance to fishermen is given in an annual notice to mariners and beached items are the responsibility of the police and local authorities, which call in Ministry of Defence explosive ordnance disposal teams when necessary.
The Clyde submarine base clearance diving unit, augmented when required by other military teams, has responded promptly to such requests on this latest occasion and will, of course, continue to undertake clearance work for as long as is necessary. Liaison between service units, the police and local authorities is being conducted at local level. Those arrangements have worked most efficiently, and I can assure the hon. Member that everything possible has been done to publicise the potential hazards posed by the phosphorous objects. In common with the hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley, the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute and my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries, we should all congratulate them on their efforts. They have done very well indeed.
In addition to work by the Strathclyde police, all local head teachers have been advised to tell children not to handle any suspect objects or material. Local authorities have also placed clear warning signs on all affected beaches.
I assure the hon. Gentleman that my Department will continue to provide the police and local authorities with the expert advice and support that they need.
Finally, I should emphasise that my Department has made very considerable and real efforts to locate and release all or any material connected with its past sea dumping operations at Beaufort's dyke and other dumping grounds. As the hon. Gentleman was good enough to say, there are no grounds for accusations of secrecy, cover-ups or complacency. We are fully aware of how seriously the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues take that matter and, indeed, how seriously we take them.
The simple fact remains that many of the relevant records were destroyed many years ago because no purpose was then seen in their retention. What remains, we have released, and if we find any further records we shall release them.
The fact also remains that, although some danger is posed by material being washed up on beaches, a far greater danger would be posed if the dumped munitions were to be disturbed. The Government have instituted survey work, the outcome of which will inform any consideration of whether the current maritime restrictions in the area need to be strengthened or extended. We shall keep the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues wholly involved and up to date on those matters.
I hope that I have been able to give the hon. Gentleman, who mentioned the matter in a temperate and measured way, the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute and my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries some reassurance about old munitions dumps and Beaufort's dyke in particular. I do not underestimate their anxiety or the anxiety of people living in that part of the world. I am not in the least surprised to hear that there have been well-attended local meetings.
We must remember, however, that Beaufort's dyke is largely a legacy of a war that took place more than 50 years ago, and it is a fruitless exercise to make judgments with the benefit of hindsight on decisions and actions taken many years ago in circumstances very different from those of today.
That does not alter the fact that we understand the anxiety that has been expressed in the House tonight. The hon. Gentleman may be assured that he will receive by letter any answers that I have not given him but that he is owed. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, the hon. Lady and my right hon. Friend for discussing this extremely important matter in such a measured and sensible way.
Question put and agreed to.
15 Nov 1995 : Column 117Adjourned accordingly at eleven minutes past Ten o'clock.
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