House of Commons
Monday 20 November 1995
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
NATIONAL HERITAGE
Association Football
1. Mr. Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what consideration she has given to the impact of the Bosman judgment on the future of association football in Britain. [480]
The Minister of State, Department of National Heritage (Mr. Iain Sproat): A final decision on the Bosman case has not yet been made by the European Court of Justice. I am monitoring the situation closely.
Mr. Betts: Does the Minister not recognise that the possibility of transfer fees and the transfer system ending in this country as a result of the Bosman judgment poses a real threat to many smaller league and non-league clubs that, without transfer fees, could go out of existence? I understand that, for some time, the Minister has been under pressure to take action from the Football Association. Will he set out precisely the Government's position, and say whether he is prepared to take the initiative on a Europewide basis, to ensure that the rights of individuals are protected and that transfer fees-- without which they would go out of existence and the whole nature of the game in this country would be changed--continue to flow to smaller league and non-league clubs?
Mr. Sproat: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that this is a serious matter. However, so far we have heard only an opinion from the Advocate-General, not from the European Court of Justice--which is likely to reach its verdict next January or February. We shall see what that says. As to extending the European Union's competence to matters of sport in this country, that would not be a good idea.
Mr. Anthony Coombs: While acknowledging that only an opinion, not a judgment, has been given, I wish to add to the comments of the hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts). Many smaller league clubs, especially Vauxhall Conference clubs, would not be viable were it not from the transfer fees that they can obtain by acting as a nursery for players. Transfer fees are immensely important for league and non-league football. If the Government would take cognisance of that fact, I am sure that those clubs would be most grateful.
Mr. Sproat: I know that my hon. Friend takes a close interest in the Vauxhall Conference. I saw Mr. Garth
Crooks and Mr. Gordon Taylor last week, and on 29 November my right hon. Friend and I will be seeing representatives of the Football Association, the Football League and the Premier League. I am sure that the matter will be taken carefully into account at that meeting and at others.
Mr. Pendry: In view of the serious implications for British soccer were Bosman to be enacted, why did not the Government join the German, Italian, French, Danish and other Governments in making representations to the European Court in defence of our transfer system? To make amends, when the Minister next meets representatives of the Football Association, will he agree to join other European Union countries in pressing for football to be included as an activity of cultural importance under article 128, so that football- related matters are taken into account within that article?
Mr. Sproat: We did not go to the European Court of Justice because we think that it would be wrong to badger the court when it has not delivered its decision. When it has done so, we shall continue to monitor the matter closely. We are opposed to extending competence--and when the football authorities look closely at the possible consequences of extending EU competence to British sport, we think that they will agree.
National Lottery
2. Sir David Knox: To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage if she will make a statement about the effect of the national lottery.
The Secretary of State for National Heritage (Mrs. Virginia Bottomley): The national lottery is an outstanding success. More than £1.2 billion of new money has been raised for the five good causes, with awards to more than 3,000 projects throughout the country so far. We are investing unprecedented sums in sport and culture. It will provide a huge boost to regeneration, jobs and prosperity.
Sir David Knox: My right hon. Friend will be aware of concern about the national lottery's impact on charities. Does she think that that concern is justified?
Mrs. Bottomley: It is early days to form a judgment. The Home Office is undertaking its long-standing commitment to research the lottery's effect on charities, but there are examples of charities that have had a very good year. They include the Marie Curie Cancer Centre, the Cancer Relief Macmillan Fund and the British Red Cross--all of which report a favourable year. In a recent MORI survey, while 2 per cent. of those questioned said that they might reduce the amount of money that they gave to charity while playing the lottery, 4 per cent. said that they intended to increase the sum.
Mr. MacShane: Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating the Daily Mirror on its crusade against people under the age of 18 betting on the national lottery? One third of 11 to 14-year-olds to whom I recently spoke at a school in Rotherham said that they bet on it. Is the right hon. Lady not concerned that, unless the age limit for the lottery is raised to the same as it is for other
institutions on which people bet, she will go down in history as the woman who turned a nation's pre-adolescent schoolchildren into gambling junkies?
Mrs. Bottomley: Our lottery, like others around the world, forbids children under 16 to play. I was delighted recently when Camelot withdrew the licence of a retailer who was knowingly selling to children under 16. It is vital that retailers who enjoy the huge benefits of the lottery understand the rules.
The suggestion that children over 16 should not be able to play the lottery when they can
get married at that age seems to me to take nannying to ludicrous heights. I am delighted that a
great number of children's projects throughout the country have benefited greatly from the
lottery. If the hon. Gentleman thinks that it is all right to buy cigarettes when over 16 but not to
buy a lottery ticket, his judgment needs examining.
Mrs. Lait:
Does my right hon. Friend accept that large jackpots
and rollover jackpots sell more tickets, so more money goes to good causes? Is she also aware
that some local charities raising money for revenue causes are finding it difficult to compete with
some of the Camelot products? Will she please take revenue spending into account when
looking at future developments for the lottery?
Mrs. Bottomley:
My hon. Friend is right to say that large
jackpots result in even more for good causes. Oflot is instructed to ensure that we maximise the
return for good causes. The £1.2 billion already raised shows just how successful our
national lottery has been. In some circumstances, the distributing bodies can give a revenue
grant. My hon. Friend will know that, with the distributing body chairmen, I am looking at the
unfolding of the lottery to see whether any modifications of the rules would be appropriate.
Mr. Alan Howarth:
As the Secretary of State confers with the
Home Secretary on the impact of the national lottery on charities, will she bear it in mind that
four NOP surveys commissioned by the National Council for Voluntary Organisations have
shown that members of the public have a greatly exaggerated view of the proportion of lottery
turnover that goes to good causes? They think that about 20p in the pound, rather than the real
figure of 5.6p, goes to them. The surveys also show that, by June of this year, 14 per cent. fewer
people were giving to charity than in 1993, and that there has been a 10 per cent. fall in the
number of people buying charity lottery and raffle tickets. Will she ensure that, while the national
lottery continues to contribute importantly to good causes, any damaging features of its impact
are remedied?
Mrs. Bottomley:
I regret that the hon. Gentleman's
figures are inaccurate: 28p in the pound of lottery money goes to good causes--
Mrs. Bottomley:
And the vast majority of that goes to charities,
through the good causes, because most of the arts and sports money goes to good causes,
supporting many disabled people's projects and extending access. In addition, the hon.
Gentleman will be aware of the UK Charities Lottery, which says that this year it has enjoyed a
fivefold increase in the amount that it raises for charity.
That is another demonstration of the lottery producing more money for
good causes and having a good effect on the country at large.
Mr. Jacques Arnold:
Will my right hon. Friend highlight the
beneficial effect of the national lottery on teenagers--contrary to what the Opposition
have said?
For instance, a gymnastic club in my constituency which caters for many talented
teenagers, Meapa, has received nearly one third of a million pounds towards the building of a
gymnasium, to be installed in a school in a deprived area of my constituency. It will be of
immense value to teenagers there.
Mrs. Bottomley:
My hon. Friend is right. Young and old
throughout the country are benefiting from our successful lottery. The Labour party can only carp
and criticise; it cannot abide success. There have been over 900 awards to sporting groups
throughout the country, and an excellent number of arts projects have been supported. The
success of the lottery has exceeded all expectations.
Dr. John Cunningham:
Given the large disparities in the
allocation of awards and the disturbingly low level of awards to the northern region of England,
including Merseyside and Cumbria, is the Secretary of State satisfied with the way in which
resources are being distributed? Is she not concerned, for example, that the requirements for
matching funding may be militating against some of the most disadvantaged regions and
preventing them from obtaining a reasonable share of the very successful lottery proceeds? Will
the right hon. Lady undertake to examine those problems and report to the House?
Mrs. Bottomley:
I am pleased that the right hon. Gentleman
recognises the great success of the lottery. It is early days to measure the effect of lottery
awards on different parts of the country. The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that I wrote
recently to all hon. Members inviting them explicitly to encourage good projects in the area that
they represent to apply for lottery awards. As the year progresses, we shall examine the way in
which different funding bodies have achieved successful awards in different areas. We shall then
build further on the success of our remarkable lottery.
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