| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
9.36 pm
Mr. Kilfoyle: With the leave of the House. I know that the Minister is anxious to answer the many points that have been made. May I commend him for the magical letter of 10 November to which many of us have referred? The letter was so good that the hon. Member for Castle Point (Dr. Spink) made it seem like a remedial reader-- something that should be used more often by Conservative Members.
I should like to ask the Minister two serious questions arising from the debate. First, it is recognised by all hon. Members that the Teachers Pensions Agency has been extremely cost-effective and efficient in dealing with the teachers superannuation scheme. On that basis, if no other, why was it frozen out from bidding for the work?
The Government know that the TPA observes commercial disciplines and that it has shown in practice how effectively it can compete with anyone in the private sector.
Mr. Robin Squire:
This has been an interesting debate, although I sense that Opposition Members did not either read my famous letter, which is now to be immortalised-- I cannot wait for the video--or take into account the comments that I made earlier.
I begin by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Dr. Spink) for his comments. I share his praise for teachers, and I can confirm that they have a good pension scheme. The scheme is not in any way at risk as a result of the order. As for confirmation of each of the points that he rightly mentioned, I have to save time--Opposition Members will get a little agitated if I go over them--so I confirm them all, as indeed I did in my opening speech.
I shall try in the time available to answer each of the questions asked, beginning with that asked by the hon. Member for North-West Durham (Ms Armstrong). She asked whether complaints to the pensions ombudsman would be published. The answer is no, because--[Hon. Members: "Shame."] When I have finished, hon. Members may be able to withdraw the "shame". Quite a few people who complain to the pensions ombudsman may not be willing to have the facts and detail of that
complaint made public. If, however, they wish to make it public, they have, with great respect, any and every way so to do.
The hon. Member for Bath (Mr. Foster), speaking for the Liberal Democrats, asked a question about the ability for personal pensions to be sold to members of the TPA. I assume that he meant those within the scheme, not the staff. I emphasise what I thought I had made clear, but obviously I had not: the contractor will not be able to use data that he holds on members of the scheme to seek to sell any financial schemes.
The hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Kilfoyle) asked whether manual records will be covered by the Data Protection Act 1984. Manual records will be covered by a confidentiality clause in the contract. If those records are computerised in due course, they will of course be covered by the Data Protection Act.
Further to that point and on the same issue, the hon. Member for Bath asked what would happen if the contractor or its agents misused the database. That would be a breach of contract and would be treated very seriously indeed.
The hon. Member for Darlington (Mr. Milburn) understandably spoke on behalf of many of his constituents and his point was emphasised by at least one other hon. Member. The agency is already committed to making significant savings in this and the next two years. The hon. Gentleman can also guess, although it is not absolutely certain, that, logically, those savings may have staffing implications. That is scarcely a strange suggestion to make.
We are considering how best to safeguard the interests of staff at Darlington. If it is decided to allow the private sector to run the scheme, that would, for reasons that I advanced in opening, give significant promise of long-term stability to staff at Darlington.
It is common ground between the hon. Member for Darlington and me that the quality of staff is high, and I emphasise what I said in an intervention: that precisely because the quality is so good, it would scarcely be in the interests of any incoming contractor to consider not locating its business at Darlington. That is where the knowledge and expertise has been built up and where-- obviously--it would remain.
Mr. Squire:
If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not give way. I was generous in giving way. I am conscious that I have only two and a half minutes left and I am trying to deal with quite a few other questions. There will be opportunities to raise matters outside.
The hon. Members for Darlington and for Walton said that it was disgraceful--or words to that effect--that the TPA had not made a bid. It could have done so. Its staff or management could have launched a bid to buy the agency, but they chose not to do so. That was their choice. They were not required to do so, and they did not do so.
The hon. Member for Darlington asked, and I tried to answer, why companies should be consulted on the draft requirements. I shall try one more time to convince him. Administering the scheme is a complex operation--that much at least should be common ground between us. We
want to give the companies the chance to clarify any points that are unclear. They may also be able to suggest improvements to draft requirements, drawing on their commercial expertise. I confirm, however, that there is no question of watering down the requirements and that there is no suggestion that the companies would seek to do that.
The hon. Member for Bath also asked what discretion the contractor would have in making decisions on entitlements. I can confirm that the Secretary of State would retain control over decisions that affect entitlement to benefits under the scheme or the amount of those benefits.
I will write to hon. Members on points that I have not covered. In essence, there is a choice tonight. There are only two reasons for rejecting the order. The first is that hon. Members have not understood the order and the safeguards that are built into it--I am afraid to say that that may be so--and the second is that hon. Members, especially Opposition Members, are still against the private sector. Despite all the honeyed words of the Leader of the Opposition, who says that Labour has now changed, the reality is that it has not and that is why Labour Members will vote against the order.
It being one and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion, Madam Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Standing Order 14B (Proceedings under an Act or on European Community documents).
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |