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Ms Roseanna Cunningham (Perth and Kinross): Does the Minister recall the warnings prior to the removal of benefit for 16 and 17-year-olds that its abolition would simply result in an increase in homelessness? Does he not understand that because of that there is widespread support for the restoration of that benefit, particularly in Scotland? I am happy to say that my party is in favour of that. Does he not understand that there will be further widespread revulsion at the cuts in housing benefit because they are likely to lead to yet another increase in homelessness? People will be afraid that instead of seeing a "Big Issue" vendor on every street corner they will see one in every doorway as a direct result of the Government's policy.
Mr. Lilley: I understand that the Opposition think that the working of the rules that we introduced to remove automatic entitlement to benefit from 16 and 17-year-olds and instead give guaranteed training places should be extended to everybody under the age of 25. Therefore they have found evidence opposite to that of the hon. Lady, or at least the hon. Member for Dunfermline, East (Mr. Brown) finds the opposite sort of evidence because he thinks that young people under 25 should have benefit removed if they do not fulfil his edicts. However, I gather that that view is not universally shared by his Front-Bench colleagues.
Mr. Anthony Coombs (Wyre Forest): Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in my constituency, few things annoy thrifty pensioners more than seeing young people touring the country on virtually unlimited housing benefit? Does he therefore agree that those pensioners will welcome the idea that there should be a limit to the costs of housing benefit on the basis of locally shared accommodation for under-25s? How will that be calculated?
Mr. Lilley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his welcome. The proposal is that the structure set in place by the January changes, under which rent officers will assess the average reference rent for each type of property in each region, will apply to shared accommodation. Rent officers will set a reference--effectively, the average level of such properties in each locality. That will be the maximum to which people under 25 will be entitled to claim housing benefit.
Mr. Jeff Rooker (Birmingham, Perry Barr): Why is it possible, even after this statement, for a landlord owning and renting property and receiving an income to receive housing benefit personally? Why do not the same capital disregard rules apply to that landlord as apply to elderly people who may, even after the statement, have to dispose of their property to go into care? Why do we featherbed
landlords so that they may obtain housing benefit? The Secretary of State looks so surprised: he does not even know about it.
Mr. Lilley: The hon. Gentleman might be right. He might have found something that I did not know about, in which case I shall be only too happy learn, but I am not sure that there is any such rule as he suggests, unless he is merely saying that landlords receive rent paid from housing benefit, which of course they do. If they did not, they would not rent out their properties to people on housing benefit. We could discuss that matter afterwards. I would be only too happy to become better informed on that matter.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): What is the estimated cost to the Treasury, to the nearest £5 million please, of making benefits from long-term care insurance tax free?
There must be a notional sum in the brief somewhere.
Mr. Lilley:
There must be but, that being a tax matter, it is not a figure that I carry in my head and no Treasury Minister is within earshot, so I shall have to write to tell the hon. Gentleman what the number is. [Hon. Members:
"It is in the Red Book."] It may well be in the Red Book, but I am sorry--I cannot give the figure to the hon. Gentleman off the cuff.
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire):
One of the Government's objectives is to get rid of inheritance tax. One of the few elements that many pensioners hold that could be an inheritance in future is their homes, which they are proud of, but which are small and would not bring much on the market. They could bring more, however, than the £16,000 that the Minister has mentioned within the changes, if they take place. Will he not consider protecting the inheritance that elderly people have, so that it is not ripped off by people in private nursing homes?
Mr. Lilley:
As I mentioned, and as the Chancellor mentioned yesterday, we are considering schemes whereby people would be able to protect an additional element of their capital by making prior provision for a certain amount of long-term care costs. If they have to activate that and spend that money, or the insurance company on their behalf has to spend that money, there will be a corresponding increase in the capital limit applying to them--that is the rough structure of the proposal. We are open to discussion about how it should work in detail, but it is precisely the sort of thing that the hon. Gentleman suggests his constituents would like, and I am sure that, as a result, they will be voting Tory.
Mr. Paul Flynn (Newport, West):
Will the Secretary of State instruct his anti-fraud staff to read his statement today to discover whether it is fraudulent to deny any increases on 30 benefits, including the widow's payment, which is £1,000, but would be £1,881 if it had been increased along with earnings? Will he include in the Official Report a full statement on all benefits that have not been increased today? Some of them have never been increased. They replace benefits that were increased by inflation. Will he explain his reasons for freezing them?
Mr. Lilley:
If all benefits had been uprated in the way in which the hon. Gentleman suggests, the cost would run into billions. Like the hon. Member for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes), he belongs to the confetti
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North):
Will the Secretary of State consider that his naked appeal to the xenophobia of the Tory party has brought us the habitual residence test and all the misery that goes with it? He now proposes to take benefits away from asylum seekers from next year. Bearing it in mind that Britain has fewer asylum seekers than any other European country and the lowest number of acceptances, he is appealing to the racism of his party. His proposals will lead to destitution among people who are fleeing oppression.
Mr. Lilley:
With respect, this is not a racial issue, but a benefits issue. The people who play the racial card are those who want to divide for their own reasons. That is monstrous and irresponsible. We believe that it is not right that people who enter the country as tourists, business men or other types of visitor on the understanding that they will not be a burden on public funds, who have been here for some while and who decide, typically when their visa runs out, to lodge a claim for asylum, should become entitled to benefits. As for the treatment of asylum seekers who have had their claim rejected by the Home Office, we treat their right to benefits during the period of appeal on the same basis as we treat the right of British citizens who appeal against refusal of benefit. Far from being racist, therefore, we are putting people on an equal footing.
Madam Speaker:
We now come to the statement by the Secretary of State for Scotland.
Mr. Dalyell:
On a point of order on this statement, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker:
I cannot take a point of order at this stage. Other hon. Members are waiting to hear the statement and it is usual for points of order to be taken at the end of statements.
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Michael Forsyth):
With permission, Madam Speaker, I should like to make a statement about the government of Scotland.
Scotland has prospered under this Conservative Government. The economy has been transformed, unemployment is at its lowest for 15 years, and inward investment is booming.
The foundation of Scotland's economic success is the constitutional stability guaranteed by the Union-- Opposition Members are meant to cheer at that point. The Union is not a dry legality; it is much greater than the sum of its parts. It is a constantly growing and living relationship, in which we must all continue to invest. It is strengthened by devolution for people, not for politicians. That means devolving power downwards from central Government, through local authorities, to community councils, school boards, housing associations and all other representative local groups, and ultimately to families and individuals.
The Government utterly reject a tax-raising Parliament that would damage Scotland's jobs and prosperity. We have long recognised that Westminster and Whitehall can seem remote from the people of Scotland. After all, it was a Conservative Government which established the office of Secretary for Scotland and the modern Scottish Office. As we made clear in the White Paper "Scotland in the Union", we believe that the correct approach is to work within the existing, successful framework of the Union to make Government and Parliament at all levels more visible and relevant to the people.
The expanded role recently created for the Scottish Grand Committee has been helpful both to Scottish Ministers and hon. Members, and to the business of the House in general. It has been extremely well received in Scotland, where the Committee's sittings north of the border, most recently in Aberdeen, brought Parliament to the people, making for better government.
My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said in 1993 in his foreword to "Scotland in the Union" that the White Paper was not the end of the story, but part of an on-going process. He said:
We believe that it is right to debate the Second Reading of Scottish Bills in a Scottish forum, and so to increase the involvement of the Scottish people in the process. We intend that, from now on, Scottish Bills coming to the House should have their Second Reading in the Scottish Grand Committee sitting in Scotland, whenever it makes sense that that should happen.
The other key stage of consideration of principle is the Third Reading. We believe, in such cases, that that too should be debated in the Scottish Grand Committee, so that people can see what is being done at the stage of
commitment to the approval of the Bill after the processes of detailed consideration and amendment. The technical processes will be essentially similar to those already in place for Second Reading.
Making greater use of the Scottish Grand Committee in that way will mean that we can expand the Scottish legislative programme. As an example of the potential that that provides, it has been possible this year to add the Licensing (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill--[Laughter.] I am glad that hon. Members find a Bill to tackle the problem of drug misuse at raves amusing; I happen to think that it is central to our legislative programme.
Secondly, we want to use to the full the procedure under which, before Scottish Bills embark on their Committee stage, evidence can be taken by a Special Standing Committee meeting in Scotland. That was done with the Children (Scotland) Bill last Session, and was very successful. It is suited to uncontroversial Bills, and is especially relevant to Scottish circumstances.
There is in Scotland a range of professional bodies and other well-informed interest groups that have less access to the Westminster process than do their counterparts in England. The use of a Special Standing Committee gives such people an opportunity to make a key impact at a formative stage of the process.
I am pleased to be able to say in addition that my right hon. and noble Friend the Lord Privy Seal is actively pursuing the possibility of establishing a new procedure in another place, to allow evidence to be taken in Scotland for Scottish Bills that are introduced in the House of Lords. It is our hope that that approach may be followed in the first instance for the Deer (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill, which was published last week.
I turn now to the way in which Ministers are called to account. [Laughter.] Another advantage in the new procedure will be the fact that people in Scotland will be able to see how the Opposition behave. The Scottish Grand Committee already has the opportunity to call to account the Secretary of State for Scotland and other Ministers at the Scottish Office. But the business of government in Scotland is not the responsibility of the Secretary of State alone.
Many of my right hon. Friends have responsibilities and take decisions on a daily basis that impact directly on the people of Scotland; so it is only right that they too should have to explain to the Scottish Grand Committee in Scotland why particular policies are being followed, and the benefits that they will bring. I therefore recommend to the House that we should change Standing Orders to achieve that.
The importance of the innovation should not be underestimated. It offers the opportunity of adding a completely new dimension of accountability for Government business in Scotland, with the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary of State for Social Security or the Secretary of State for Defence, for example, taking part in debates in Scotland and being able to present policies and react to criticisms of them; and it will all be done in a forum accessible to the people of Scotland.
Additionally, the provisions that already allow Scottish Office Ministers in another place to make statements to the Scottish Grand Committee will be extended to include all Ministers in another place.
We shall bring the new Standing Orders forward for approval shortly. To ensure that the process can be planned properly, we shall need a timetable for sittings throughout the year. I am today tabling motions for eight meetings of the Scottish Grand Committee to consider Government business, and two meetings to consider Liberal Democrat party and Scottish National party business, all of which will be held in Scotland.
Scotland (Government)
5.15 pm
"Our search for new ways to strengthen the Union will go on. We stand ready to take account of changing circumstances. And our drive to strengthen Scotland's place in the Union--and thus the United Kingdom itself--will continue."
It is in accordance with that commitment that I have been working with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and my other right hon. Friends. I want to tell the House today of important changes that we propose to the way in which legislation is handled and Ministers called to account.
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