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Fire Service
2. Mr. Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what was the original estimate of fire service spending for 1995-96; and by how much this exceeds the amount of the capping limit for England and Wales. [1352]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Tom Sackville): The estimate of revenue spending by fire authorities in England and Wales in 1995-96 is £1,324 million. One metropolitan fire authority--South Yorkshire--set a budget £640,000 above its provisional cap and this was accepted.
Mr. Jamieson: Is the Minister aware that the local authority associations are saying that, nationally, there is an £80 million shortfall on fire service expenditure? Given the grim picture for public expenditure next year, do not we face a serious funding crisis in the fire service? When will the Government listen to the local authority associations, the Audit Commission and many others, and face their responsibility for funding a vital emergency service?
Mr. Sackville: The hon. Gentleman mentions the Audit Commission, which said in its report that at least £67 million-worth of savings could be made if all fire authorities came up to best practice. I have no evidence to suggest that best practice is the maximum efficiency that can be reached. Extensive further efficiencies may be possible. The hon. Gentleman should remember that, in his county of Devon, the standard spending assessment for fire was increased by 9.5 per cent. this year.
Mr. George Howarth: May I welcome the Minister to his new responsibilities? Is he aware that although the Audit Commission report, "In the Line of Fire", suggested where savings might be made, it pointed out that there were serious structural problems in the method of funding fire authorities? Is he also aware that, within the past two years, the chief fire officer commented on the serious possibility of a funding crisis for fire authorities throughout the country? Is it not time that the Government stopped hiding behind statistics and got down to sorting out the serious structural funding problems within the fire services? Are they prepared to stand by and let a vital emergency service drift towards being unable to fulfil its functions?
Mr. Sackville: May I remind the hon. Member for Knowsley, North (Mr. Howarth) that the responsibility for setting budgets for fire services lies with the fire authorities. They must satisfy themselves that they can
fulfil their duties under the Fire Services Act 1947. It is open to them to set a budget above the Government's capping requirements if they can justify it, and one metropolitan county that did that last year had its budget allowed. If the hon. Gentleman is asking for extra spending on the fire service and everything else, how will he fund his party's promised reductions in income tax?Crime, West Yorkshire
3. Mr. Sutcliffe: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans he has to visit West Yorkshire in the near future to discuss crime levels. [1354]
The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. David Maclean): My right hon. and learned Friend has no immediate plans to visit West Yorkshire. However, we congratulate West Yorkshire police force on the 10 per cent. reduction in vehicle crime, the 3 per cent. reduction in other theft, and the 5 per cent. reduction in burglary recorded in the 12 months to June 1995.
Mr. Sutcliffe: I congratulate the police, but will the Minister tell us how many extra police officers will be on the beat in West Yorkshire as a result of his proposals? Is he prepared to fund the pilot schemes like the one in my constituency, where two dedicated officers are funded by city challenge? Will he guarantee that, if those schemes are successful, they will receive long-term funding from the Home Office?
Mr. Maclean: The hon. Gentleman is behind the times. He should know that we do not dictate to chief constables how many officers they may have. As a matter of interest, with the funding made available to West Yorkshire since the Government came to power in 1979, there has been a 7 per cent. increase in police officers and a 65 per cent. increase in police civilian staff, allowing more bobbies to go on the beat. This financial year, the chief constable of West Yorkshire plans to recruit more bobbies and hopes to have 135 more this year alone.
Mr. Riddick: May I join my right hon. Friend in welcoming the chief constable's announcement of 135 new police officers by the end of this financial year? Is he aware that the chief constable has managed to achieve that by slimming down the bureaucracy in Wakefield and reducing the number of senior ranks? Does not that show that extra money from the Government is not always needed to put more police officers on the beat?
Mr. Maclean: My hon. Friend is right. That pattern is being repeated throughout the country. In nearly all police forces, chief officers have streamlined senior and middle ranks--particularly inspectors, chief inspectors and superintendents--and used the savings to recruit more constables. That means that more constables are out on the beat. They are available for operational duties and that practice has been encouraged by this Conservative Government. There is also the fact, of course, that the first thing that the Government did in 1979 was to recruit the 8,000 bobbies that that lot let slide.
Mr. Straw: Is the Minister aware that over the three years since the last general election, the number of police officers in West Yorkshire has gone down by 107 and across the country, according to the chief inspector's latest report, by 823--wholly contrary to a pledge given at the last general election of 1,000 more officers on the beat?
Given that broken promise, what guarantee can the Minister give that the latest promise on police numbers of 5,000 over three years is going to be honoured or is that going to be yet another broken promise from the Tories?
Mr. Maclean: With that statistic, as with all the others that the hon. Gentleman uses, especially when he tries to compare falling crime in Britain with crime in other countries, he gets stuck at a particular point in time. He does not like to take the latest, up-to-date facts. He should be aware that the chief constable of West Yorkshire is predicting that by the end of this financial year, he will have 135 more bobbies. If the hon. Gentleman does not understand that getting rid of senior ranks and recruiting constables instead puts more people on the beat, then God help this country if he were ever Home Secretary.
Mr. Jacques Arnold: When my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary visits West Yorkshire and meets the chief constable, could he suggest that when the chief constable deals with the case of PC Godber, the policeman who clipped a young thug round the ear, that police constable should be congratulated rather than disciplined?
Mr. Maclean: I am sure the House heard what my hon. Friend said and no doubt those remarks will be drawn to the chief constable's attention. Neither my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary nor I interfere in these disciplinary matters. Cases such as this come to the Home Secretary on appeal once the procedures have been followed. I could not comment.
Community Policing
4. Mr. Rendel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans he has to improve community policing in the Thames valley. [1355]
Mr. Maclean: The Government fully support community policing and I want to congratulate the chief constable of Thames valley on setting objectives in the Newbury area to prevent vehicle crime, to prevent burglary, and to prevent misuse of drugs by an active programme of partnership and community intervention.
Mr. Rendel: I am delighted that the Minister congratulates the Newbury police force on its partnership with Newbury district council, which, as he knows, is Liberal Democrat-led. Given the fact that the violent crime record in the Thames valley is currently the second worst in the country and given the amount of money for new policing in the Budget for the next financial year, just how many of the much-trumpeted 5,000 extra police officers are going to be in place by the end of the next financial year?
Mr. Maclean: The hon. Gentleman will have to wait. I am not going to announce at this moment the settlement on police funding. He will have to wait at least an hour for that. The chief constable of Thames valley has been very successful in tackling crime. In the past two years, burglary has come down 20 per cent. total crime 13 per cent. 25,000 fewer crimes have been committed in the Thames valley; and theft is down 17 per cent. Where a chief constable finds that any particular sort of crime is rising, I am sure that he will use the increased resources that we have made available to target that crime. If there
is an increase in robbery or violence, chief constables will use the resources to get those crimes down just as they have tackled other crime.
Mr. Simon Coombs: Speaking from the head-waters of the River Thames, may I say how warmly welcomed in my constituency was the Chancellor's confirmation of the recruitment of an additional 5,000 police officers across the country over the next three years, following as it did the news of the 5 per cent. fall in crime in the county of Wiltshire in the previous year? Will my right hon. Friend bear it in mind that the ability of the chief constable of Wiltshire to deliver good community policing depends to a large extent on his ability to fulfil other responsibilities such as security in the county?
Mr. Maclean: I appreciate what my hon. Friend says. When he studies the settlement that we have made available, not only for Wiltshire but for all the other forces in England and Wales for which my right hon. and learned Friend has financial responsibility, I hope that he will conclude that Wiltshire has been well satisfied and has had not only its ordinary policing needs met but those for its special security responsibilities.
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