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Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Sir Edward Heath: No, I am sorry.
There are no answers to many of the questions that have been asked so far in this debate. It is not possible to give answers to such challenges or to say what one would do in certain circumstances or why one has not committed oneself. It is not possible, in the circumstances of a major negotiation in Europe, to commit oneself beforehand. It is very unwise to. I hope that we shall adjust our attitude to Europe, because the present situation does not help anybody and doubtless damages us abroad and in the European Union.
We have to ask what the purpose of isolation is. If we are negotiating satisfactorily, we know that if we want our own way--as people say, in our own interests--we must negotiate with other people about their interests. That is what negotiation is all about. Stating our interest, and saying that that is that, is not a means of negotiation. We must ask ourselves what we are isolating ourselves for.
At times, isolation has been deplorable for us. We were isolated on Black Wednesday, when sterling was devalued by 15 per cent. Nobody was prepared to help us because of our attitude on so many other subjects. We were isolated when the Prime Minister, on his own, tried to change the voting system. Nobody else would support the proposal, so it went down the drain. Those are not examples of desirable isolation. There might be cases in which it is desirable, but we have to ask clearly why we are making ourselves isolated on a particular point.
Other matters have been discussed on which we have tended to be isolated--the military activities of the Western European Union, for example. We tend to take the attitude, which others do not, that nothing more must be established in Brussels and that all these activities must be spread around. That cannot be efficient or operationally successful, so we have to ask ourselves why we are taking that attitude instead of moving forward logically and naturally.
Finally, I shall say a few words about a common currency and the opt-outs on it and the social chapter. The effects of the social chapter have been exaggerated out of all proportion. British firms who have subsidiaries in the
Union are implementing the social chapter completely. They are extending it to their people here. They have no worries about that.
This country had minimum wage arrangements from 1909 until they were abolished by the Government two or three years ago. We had them through party Governments, through wartime coalitions, through the national Governments of the 1930s, and through the post-war Governments of the two different parties. They were abolished only two years ago. What harm were they doing us all that time? We had times of great prosperity and of problems, but they were not due to our arrangements for minimum wages. The problem can be grossly exaggerated and that does not produce any worthwhile result.
Various requirements, which I think are unrealistic, are being made for the single currency. The requirement is for each member country to be in the same economic position. The hon. Member for Livingston went further than others have done in that respect. It will never happen. It does not happen in the United States. Consider the differences between California, New York and President Clinton's home state: they are enormous. The same will be true of Europe. The pattern can be fitted together successfully into a common currency.
Mr. Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock):
Ministers seem to be getting aggravated.
Sir Edward Heath:
I am keeping calm.
The most persuasive point is the fact that there is no single market in the world with more than one currency. Imagine the United States with 51 currencies. Imagine Japan with separate currencies for its constituent islands. It is unthinkable, and the reason is that, with more than one currency, member states cheat by manoeuvering their currencies to deal with their problems at any given time. Indeed, that is what we were accused of on Black Wednesday.
If we are to keep a single market, we must move to a single currency as speedily as possible.
The Foreign Secretary spoke of the huge number of regulations emanating from the Commission from 1990 onwards, and of how the Government have managed to reduce the number since then. The simple explanation is that all those regulations paved the way for the single market. Altogether, 272 regulations were needed to get the single market going. They were therefore desirable, and the Commission cannot be blamed for them. After all, we played a major part in bringing the single market about.
Similarly, for every regulation issued on the single market, 12 were abolished in the member countries-- another beneficial effect. The people of this country have been misled about the number of regulations pouring out of Brussels and by the idea that we have somehow succeeded in stemming the flow.
Business and industry in the United Kingdom want a single currency. I know that some of my hon. Friends have issued a statement in which they claim to want to re-educate business. I sometimes feel that we might do better to take more notice of what business people think and want, instead of believing that we can do everything on our own and re-educate business leaders. [Interruption.] There seems to be a lot of noise behind me.
Public opinion polls also show that 82 per cent. of business men in this country want a single currency. Why? They know that they will have to send out only one invoice, not 15. That means less expense; it means that they can cut prices and have far less trouble in general. Secondly, they know that speculators would never dare touch a single currency. The trouble with one group going ahead with a single currency, leaving others outside it, is that the speculators will operate against those outside, and that can only be damaging for everyone.
The quicker a single currency is achieved, the better. The decision is continually put off by this country, but the other member countries draw their own conclusions from that: that we are not prepared to take a full part in a single currency or a single market within the European Union.
Ever since its creation, the Community has moved forward in leaps and bounds, sometimes of six years, sometimes of 10, sometimes of eight. That is what must happen now with the single currency; it will require a major leap forward. We cannot just shuffle the problem around, tinkering with various solutions. The whole process must be thoroughly worked out and then put into operation. My point concerns speed; we must not wait for 1999 or 2001 or 2010. If we do, the single market will disintegrate. We shall then lose all the fruits of the work done ever since 1950.
The other member countries will not stand for this. If we are left out, we will find ourselves not splendidly isolated but open to attack from every quarter, and in the end we will lose not just the single market but the European Union. I have seen a great deal of the Union, from its creation onwards, and I have listened to the views of its leaders. It is vital that we understand their point of view. We are kidding ourselves if we believe that they all really want to follow whatever we do. Nothing could be further from the truth. They just think how lucky they are to be saved from our position.
I beg the Foreign Secretary not just to announce what we intend to do and then hope that everyone else will follow. I am sure he will not do that. In any case, it would not happen; it would not work. It would damage our interests enormously. What we need to do is to keep this country, as the Prime Minister said, at the heart of Europe. That means working with the other member countries and negotiating and discussing all the time--not insisting on getting our way for the sake of British policy and British interests. The interests of the Union are our interests and, incidentally, ours are the Union's in the long term.
I think it important that the points I have made be taken into account.
Mr. Peter Shore (Bethnal Green and Stepney):
The right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Sir E. Heath) always speaks with great authority on European matters, and with good reason. There is always an element of good sense in what he has to say, but I disagree with him on a number of points, and I had better say what they are.
First, however, I shall say what I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about. I agree that the whole argument about the social chapter has been ludicrously exaggerated. Its importance has been so absurdly overestimated because it meets the convenience of Government and
Opposition Front Benchers, who need a bogus political fight on an unimportant part of the treaty so that they can avoid discussing the major, important parts of a treaty on which they are agreed. The really important parts of that treaty deal with economic and monetary union, and with the single currency to which the right hon. Gentleman quite properly addressed most of his speech.
5.45 pm
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