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8.28 pm
Mr. Mike Gapes (Ilford, South): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Mrs. Currie), and I agree with her conclusion. She revealed today, quite clearly, that despite all the efforts of the Foreign Secretary, what was written in The European on 23 November is basically true--he feels that he just has to hold together the fragile unity in his party. The article reads:
- "The Euro-sceptic wing, confident that it has brow-beaten the Cabinet into accepting a hardline stance, has ceased the remorseless attrition against the Tories' more fervent Europeans. There now exists a fragile truce; Malcolm Rifkind, the new foreign secretary, is the embodiment of that truce."
What we have just heard shows that the truce will not necessarily last for ever because people on the pro-European, perhaps realist, wing of the Conservative party will in time--I hope--reveal the fact that they are not very happy. What we have just heard is an example of that.
It is clear that, despite some of what we have heard, there is a consensus in Britain, and in the House, that Britain's future lies in Europe. The argument is surely about how best to pursue that future in Europe and what are the best ways forward during the next few years.
There has been a strange crossover in the Labour and Conservative parties. The Labour party was, historically, seen to be the anti-European party--Hugh Gaitskell has already been referred to--the party that stood out against the capitalist west European club and for the Commonwealth, our relations with the third world and a vision of a wider world.
The Conservative party had its xenophobic wing and the little Englander nationalism, which is still there, but it also had close links with business. It was probably the only political party to have such links 15 or 20 years ago. That has changed recently, but it could have been thought to represent the interests of British business in its public statements.
Nowadays, the CBI and the Conservative party are increasingly at variance. Many British business people are worried about the Government's stance, for the reasons that the hon. Member for South Derbyshire has just spelt out. They are worried that Britain will be outside the process in Europe, that there will be speculation against our currency, that we will lose inward investment and that we will suffer the job consequences of that.
As a London Member of Parliament with many constituents who travel to central London to work in various financial institutions, I am worried about the long-term consequences for the City of London--not today, not tomorrow, not next year nor in five years' time, but in 15, 20 or 30 years' time when information technology and the transferring of financial institutions' information becomes so vital to our economies that we in London may lose out to Frankfurt or some other European centre. That might not happen--none of us can predict the future accurately--but Britain is taking a big risk if it stays out of these major developments.
There is clearly a great deal of cynicism among the general public about all things European. Very few people--they could be counted on the fingers of one hand if we had one finger--understand the minutiae of the so-called decision-making processes in the European Union. That is a real problem because it means that none of us can really get a grip on jargon such as comitology, co-decision and so on. Even people in the institutions themselves do not really understand it. That means that we cannot be sure who makes decisions, how they are made and how they can be changed.
My hon. Friend the Member for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing) said that power had been lost by this Parliament to the European Union's institutions. I do not agree. Parliament lost power many years ago--to our Executive,
and our Executive is now conspiring with Executives in other countries to do things behind closed doors, to make deals, to work things out, and neither this Parliament nor national Parliaments in other European countries nor the European Parliament have the ability to keep a check on it. That is why this absurd structure has been built up. That must be considered if we are to restore public confidence, to obtain real accountability and to deal with the democratic deficit.
There is an associated issue of great and fundamental concern. In the European Union today, there are 20 million unemployed people. Different parts of our continent have seen the rise of extremist, nationalist, racist and xenophobic parties and organisations. Fortunately, perhaps because of our electoral system, that is not happening in Britain in quite the same way as it is elsewhere, but it is clearly not sufficient for us to dismiss such issues and say that it does not really matter to us that the far right has growing support in Austria, that the national front in France consistently has between 12 and 15 per cent. of the vote in elections or that neo-Nazis from Germany have been going to Croatia to help in the civil war in former Yugoslavia.
When I saw that the Government were blocking proposals for action against racism and xenophobia, I was appalled. If we are saying that we have superior national legislation against it and that we do not need a European Union-wide approach, where is our law that makes it an offence to deny the holocaust? If the Home Secretary and other Ministers present such legislation in the next year, I might be convinced, but if they are not prepared to do so, I shall be suspicious that they have another agenda, and that it is that they do not want to upset the right wing and the xenophobic and racist vote in Britain.
Mrs. Currie:
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman realises that many hon. Members, including people of Jewish origin such as myself, would be deeply frightened at the thought of our stopping free speech in that way. It must be possible to hear an opinion so that it can be destroyed by argument.
Mr. Gapes:
I hear what the hon. Lady says, but I draw to her attention the comments of the Board of Deputies of British Jews and other organisations from the Jewish community in the past week. I think that she will agree that they take a different view. It seems that the hon. Lady thinks that they are wrong, but I happen to agree with them and believe that they have a serious point.
Several measures before the European Union can begin to combat the cynicism and difficulties that are being experienced throughout the European Union. The Swedish Government's proposals to counter unemployment deserve serious support and consideration. We might argue about the small print, we might well say that there are different approaches, but it is completely wrong for our Government to dismiss them and say that we are not interested. I hope that, when the Government changes in the near future, we shall have a much more positive approach.
Europe is not just a single market. It is not just a free trade area. It has not been since its inception and it is absurd for people to pretend that we can somehow transform it into one. Neither by undermining the acquis communautaire, which was called for by the hon. Member for Colchester, North (Mr. Jenkin), nor by restricting and blocking any attempt to change will we succeed.
The Government say that they want enlargement. It is not possible to enlarge the European Union from 15 to 20 or 25 countries without doing something about accountability and the decision-making processes. Without such change, we would end up with deadlock. It is absurd that a country as small as Luxembourg can effectively block measures to deal with fraud. It would be absurd if countries in southern Europe, benefiting financially from tobacco subsidies, could block reform of the CAP that sought to eliminate that scandal. It would be absurd if countries could prevent progress towards enlargement because they could prevent changes in the budgetary relationship and distribution.
We currently spend 50 per cent. of all European Union money on the common agricultural policy. That is far too much. In a country such as ours, with a largely urban manufacturing population--only a small percentage of the population is employed in agriculture or in agriculture-related industries--it is nonsensical that the vast majority should pay so much to subsidise agricultural systems elsewhere as well as in their own country.
During the past few months, there have been changes in world market prices that affect the future of stockpiles of various products. Nevertheless, the CAP as a system must go. The Foreign Secretary conceded that when he said that it could not be extended to Poland, Hungary and the other agricultural applicant countries. If that is the case we shall need allies to secure change. That is why we need to build a coalition with other countries, and why reform of the institutional framework will become necessary.
Enlargement will not be confined to the Visegrad countries. It is wrong to view those four countries as a bloc. This week, I met the Leader of Slovakia's Opposition, and was worried by what I was told about the authoritarian behaviour of Mr. Meciar towards his opponents. Because of its high growth rate, Slovakia might become economically capable of joining the European Union with the other applicants, but I do not think that we should allow into the Union countries that have not become accustomed to the concept of a democratic Opposition who have a right to protest, a right to vote down Governments if they can secure the majority in Parliament and a right to campaign against Government policies.
The Estonians have also just applied to join the European Union. As one who has visited Estonia a number of times, I am still not convinced--despite the economic growth and development that has taken place in the country in the past few years--that adequate safeguards for dealing with the substantial Russian-speaking minority yet exist. Again, we must be very careful: the European Union must be clear about its democratic standards and its standards in regard to respect for minorities.
Far more serious is the fact that there can be no question of allowing Croatia into the European Union, because of the abuses of human rights there, the expulsion of 200,000 people from Krajina and the other atrocities that have been perpetrated at the behest of President Tudjman. I know that today's debate is not about Yugoslavia, but the Government should consider seriously whether they are prepared to refer senior figures in Croatia--including President Tudjman--to the war crimes tribunal on the basis of what has gone on in recent months.
Increasingly important in world politics and in Europe are arguments about self-determination, nationalism and the rights of minorities. The European Union potentially provides a way in which to deal with those problems: recognition of the rights of regions, and of the fact that diversity and different structures are possible within an institution that brings people together. That must be handled sensitively and carefully, however. It would be a big mistake to imagine that any country can be allowed into the European Union, regardless of other factors.
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