House of Commons
Thursday 14 December 1995
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
City of Westminster Bill [Lords]
Motion made, and Question proposed,
To be considered on Thursday 11 January.
That the Promoters of the City of Westminster Bill [Lords] may, notwithstanding anything in the Standing Orders or practice of this House, proceed with the Bill in the present Session; and the Petition for the Bill shall be deemed to have been deposited and all Standing Orders applicable thereto shall be deemed to have been complied with;
Hon. Members: Object.
That if the Bill is brought from the Lords in the present Session, the Agents for the Bill shall deposit in the Private Bill Office a declaration signed by them stating that the Bill is the same, in every respect, as the Bill which was brought from the Lords in the last Session;
That, as soon as a certificate by one of the Clerks in the Private Bill Office, that such a declaration has been so deposited, has been laid upon the Table of the House, the Bill shall be read the first and second time and committed (and shall be recorded in the Journal of this House as having been so read and committed) and shall be committed to the Chairman of Ways and Means, who shall make such Amendments thereto as were made by him in the last Session, and shall report the Bill as amended to the House forthwith, and the Bill, so amended, shall be ordered to lie upon the Table;
That no further Fees shall be charged in respect of any proceedings on the Bill in respect of which Fees have already been incurred during any previous Session.--[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.]
AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD
Hill Farming
1. Mr. Win Griffiths: To ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proposals he has to encourage young people to enter hill farming. [4127]
The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Douglas Hogg): I have no plans to introduce measures specifically to encourage young people into hill farming. However, the Agricultural Tenancies Act 1995, which came into force on 1 September this year, will encourage landowners to let more land. This has been reinforced by 100 per cent. relief from inheritance tax for land in new tenancies granted on or after 1 September. As the market in let land is freed up, more opportunities will be created for new entrants generally.
Mr. Griffiths: I must tell the Minister that few young farmers will be cheered by his reply. The background to
the Government's dealings with farmers in our hill country areas is that the livestock compensatory allowance has been cut or frozen over the last four years, grants in the less-favoured areas have been cut from 50 per cent. to 30 per cent., and farmers have less income than ever before. Instead of possibly making more land available, is not it time for the Government to do something to improve farmers' incomes, which have decreased in my own constituency and in other parts--
Madam Speaker: Order. We have questions to get through today. We do not want statements.
Mr. Hogg: As to the first point about let land, what really troubles young farmers is the knowledge that the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Edinburgh, East (Dr. Strang) introduced legislation in 1976 which did enormous damage to the ability of landowners to let land. They will have been shocked by the Labour party's decision to vote against the Agricultural Tenancies Act 1995, which has done an enormous amount to free up land.
Mr. Thomason: Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the best way for young people to enter farming, whether it is hill farming or otherwise, is for them to have the opportunity to have their own tenancies? Does not the Minister find it extraordinary that the Labour party should therefore seek to oppose that very move?
Mr. Hogg: My hon. Friend is entirely right. The 1995 legislation was agreed between all parts of the industry, and the Government would not have introduced it unless it had been so agreed. The Labour party defied informed opinion by voting against the legislation, and that was a disgrace.
Mr. William Ross: Given that the land tenure situation in Northern Ireland is very different from that in Great Britain, does the Minister understand that the real concern of farmers in the hill areas of Northern Ireland has to do with the percentage of their net income that is at present derived from subsidies? What comfort can he give to those people over the long term?
Mr. Hogg: I shall not refer directly to the question of farmers in Northern Ireland because I do not have the necessary expertise; that is more a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I can say that, in 1995-96, the real value of farm incomes in the LFAs is expected to rise by 4 per cent. On the value of direct subsidies coming into LFAs in the United Kingdom, there has been a steady increase from 1993--and, it is anticipated, until 1996--in the real value of direct subsidies to livestock farmers. Incidentally, hill livestock compensatory allowances form only a relatively small part of the overall direct subsidies to livestock farmers.
Regional Speciality Foods
3. Mrs. Lait: To ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he is taking to promote British regional speciality foods. [4129]
The Minister for Food (Mrs. Angela Browning): As the Minister in the Department responsible for small businesses, I am especially concerned to assist this dynamic and growing sector of the food industry.
We continue to support Food from Britain, which is broadening its active support for marketing groups and for individual businesses.
Mrs. Lait: I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful answer. Is she aware that France's wonderful regional products are supported by forms of producer co-operatives? In my constituency, we have wonderful lamb from the Romney marshes, superb fish from the sea, and great cheeses and fruit. Can my hon. Friend assure me that we will have more publicity and help for regional speciality food groups?
Mrs. Browning: Indeed, the regional food groups have been very successful in bringing together many smaller groups and individual businesses. We already have the well-established Taste of the West, Taste of Anglia and North West Fine Foods. My hon. Friend will be especially interested to know that, in January, two more groups will be launched--Middle England Fine Foods and Taste of the South East.
Mr. Martyn Jones: Is not it true, however, that British food is not being supported enough? We have a huge deficit of £6 billion in temperate foods that we could grow in this country. If we put some money into Food from Britain, instead of cutting back, and supported our farmers as the French do, we would have a real advantage in selling our food abroad.
Mrs. Browning: I meet Food from Britain regularly and I frequently go abroad to support that organisation and British companies that are exporting quality, speciality British foods with great success. It is interesting that that particular sector of the food industry--speciality foods and small food companies--employs 20 per cent. of the work force employed in the food industry.
Sir Jim Spicer: My hon. Friend has rightly mentioned Taste of the West. Does she agree that the success and the value added to all those products rests upon people such as George and Amanda Streatfeild--whom she knows--of Denhay Farms, who play such a remarkably virile role in Taste of the West?
Mrs. Browning: Indeed. [Hon. Members: "Who are they?"] I shall tell hon. Members who they are. They are farmers, a husband and wife team in Dorset, whom I have met. They have exhibited at many national and international exhibitions. Among their many excellent products, they produce air-dried ham, which the Italians think they are best at, but the Streatfeilds have beaten them to it in many awards.
Milk
4. Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make it his policy to maintain the present levels of milk production. [4130]
The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Tony Baldry): Yes. The Government's policy is to resist any cuts in the UK's milk quota allocation.
Mr. Cunningham: Is the Minister aware that a number of milkmen, especially in the west midlands, are being put out of business, and that there will be a shortage of
milkmen very soon, because the supermarkets are taking over the business? What does the Minister propose to do about that?
Mr. Baldry: That is just competition in the marketplace, and nothing to do with EC milk quotas. At 26p for a four-pint poly-bottle of milk in our supermarkets, milk in the UK is cheaper than anywhere else in the European Community.
Mr. Peter Atkinson: Can my hon. Friend set out the Government's view on the future of milk quotas?
Mr. Baldry: Our ultimate objective is to get rid of milk quotas, because we are prevented from making the most of the UK's natural advantages for milk production by the EC quota system. So we wish to get rid of milk quotas.
Mrs. Golding: Is the Minister aware that a recent survey by the Co-operative Wholesale Society showed that 11 to 16-year-old children are consuming far too little milk and other dairy produce? Instead of working to deprive our children of milk, does not the Minister think that it would help the milk industry and the health of our nation if he stopped treating the dietary needs of our schoolchildren with such contempt?
Mr. Baldry: That really is over-hyping it. The take-up of the scheme varied greatly between local education authorities so the benefits were already spread unequally. Those benefits have never been targeted on the basis of need. We do not believe that the changes will have any effect on the health or nutrition of British teenagers.
5. Mr. Pike: To ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what funding the United Kingdom will receive from the EU in 1995-96 towards the cost of milk in secondary schools and school catering. [4131]
Mr. Douglas Hogg: We estimate that EU expenditure on the discretionary elements of the school milk scheme will amount to approximately £6.1 million in the United Kingdom in 1995-96. Doing away with the discretionary element will result in public expenditure savings of about £4 million.
Mr. Pike: Does the Minister accept that this subsidy, unlike much of the £3 billion subsidy to the dairy industry from the common agricultural policy, is an important and essential one? Will he take more notice of what nutritional experts say and make sure that this cut does not take place?
Mr. Hogg: The scheme is neither important nor essential. We continue to subsidise milk for primary schools at a cost of about £12 million a year. As the Minister of State has just made plain, the take-up is extremely uneven: not all local authorities take up the scheme, and even in participating LEAs not all schools do so. There is no targeting of need, and the scheme is an inefficient use of resources.
Mr. Marland: Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that it is worth reiterating that any change in policy will have no effect on primary schools, that milk will still be available to them, and that it is not the Government's objective to force-feed teenagers with milk?
Mr. Marland: It is surely up to parents to decide whether they want their children to drink milk, and they have some responsibility in that respect.
Does my right hon. and learned Friend further agree that any reduction in milk consumption at schools will make more milk available for manufacturing, for adding value and for creating wealth?
Mr. Hogg:
I apologise to my hon. Friend for getting to my feet too soon. I should like to focus on two of his important points. He is right to draw attention to the fact that we subsidise the consumption of milk in primary schools. His second point is basic: it really is up to parents to encourage their children to drink milk, if that is what they deem right for them. Theirs is the responsibility; we must go on emphasising that kind of basic fact.
Dr. Strang:
But surely the right hon. and learned Gentleman is aware that only two years ago a Minister of State in the Department was telling the House what a great scheme this was, and that we should encourage teenagers to drink milk in our schools--particularly young girls, to help reduce the risk of osteoporosis in later life. The Minister knows that the policy is wrong, and that we should be encouraging teenagers to drink more milk. Will he reconsider?
Mr. Hogg:
That is nonsense, and the hon. Gentleman knows it. What is more, it shows why the Labour party cannot be taken seriously when it talks about reducing expenditure and tax. The plain fact is that this is saving us £4 million which I can then spend on areas of greater priority in the agriculture budget. People should focus on schemes to determine whether they are good or bad. This one is not a good use of resources; that is why we have done away with it.
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