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The Prime Minister: If camouflage was needed, I would have thought that it was between the Labour Front Bench and below the Gangway on that side of the House. If there is going to be a debate, I suggest that it starts on Labour Benches, and Labour Members can try and work out precisely what their position is. We now see just how split, despite all they have said, they really are on European matters, and have been right from the start. [Hon. Members: "Answer the question."] The answer to the hon. Gentleman's question, in every respect, is no.
Mrs. Edwina Currie (South Derbyshire): While it is correct, as my right hon. Friend has said, that if the wrong decisions are taken on monetary union, the result will be turmoil and chaos, could I possibly dig out of him an admission, however tentative, that if the right decisions are taken, to create a currency union among 150 million of the world's richest citizens could be highly beneficial to all the nations concerned?
The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend puts precisely the question to which an answer needs to be found. We cannot be certain of an answer to that question without answers to the questions that I asked in Madrid, which is precisely why I asked those questions. We need to know the answers before making a judgment, which is the view of a number of people in Europe. Equally passionate views are held in the opposite direction. Until we know the details and answers to those questions, it is not possible to take a rational view of the implications of a single currency. That is what I seek to provide.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): My question is on a different but increasingly important issue, in view of events in Russia: the Community's relations with the Ukraine. What exactly are we doing to help those people? In his talks with President Kuchma last week, what did the Prime Minister respond to the President, who is also the former technical director of Baikenor, on technical co-operation, not least in relation to the Ukraine's valuable resources in space, which are left over from the Soviet Union, and the skills that could benefit us all?
The Prime Minister: I raised a number of matters when I spoke to President Kuchma a week or so ago. As the hon. Gentleman and the House would have expected, we discussed Chernobyl and spent some time discussing the package of support that the international community has now provided for closing Chernobyl at the turn of the century. We also looked at a variety of ways in which we could increase the trading and investment relationship between the United Kingdom and the Ukraine. There is huge scope, particularly in the energy sector, for the mutual benefit of British investment and for British technology to go into the Ukraine, where it would be warmly welcomed by the Ukrainians. I also stressed to
President Kuchma that one of the inhibitions to ensuring that that investment can proceed are the present financial and legal restraints in parts of the Ukraine.
That was the substance of our discussion. It was an extremely worthwhile visit, which will be followed up by further ministerial visits to the Ukraine. I hope that some of those will take with them high-powered delegations of business men, so that we can examine the business relationship between the United Kingdom and the Ukraine and build on it, because the Ukraine will be an important part of the European business scene in future.
Mr. Hugh Dykes (Harrow, East):
Despite the usual trading of insults between the party leaders today on this momentous matter, which is of great importance to this country, and the regrettable lack of listening to the sensible suggestions made by the leader of the Liberal Democrats, would not it be a good idea for the party leaders to get together? As a large majority of Members of this House are in favour of EMU, they could, on a free-vote basis, present the positive factors in favour of monetary union to the British public.
The Prime Minister:
I always believe in the politics of rationality. My hon. Friend pitches a question that would demand a high price for the Leader of the Opposition in terms of discussing the reality of what lies immediately ahead. I saw no great sign of it from the leader of the Liberal Democrats this afternoon. If we can determine the answer to the questions that I have put, they will be material to framing the opinions of people in this House and beyond about the desirability or otherwise of the course that was set out some time ago. I reiterate the same point because it is undeniable: without that information, credible decisions cannot be taken. I am trying to provide it. I shall then willingly make it available to the Leader of the Opposition in a tutorial or in any other way that he wishes.
Mrs. Margaret Ewing (Moray):
As a decision must ultimately be taken, will a time limit be placed on the study? What will happen once the study becomes available? Will it be widely available and how will we move into decision mechanisms?
The Prime Minister:
It is not quite clear how long the study will take. I saw it reported that it will take two or three years. That is clearly nonsense--it will take nothing like that. I would expect a report when we get to Florence in the summer, but I am not sure whether it will be the definitive report, and neither is anybody else. Once the report has been produced, I am sure that it will be discussed by ECOFIN and the European Council. It may be placed on the European Council's agenda, but that has not yet been decided.
Sir Teddy Taylor (Southend, East):
In view of the substantial misery and unemployment created already by European fixed exchange rates, is the Prime Minister aware that people with all kinds of views of EMU will enthusiastically welcome his statement that, in the event of the "Euro" being established by a small number of countries, there is no way that sterling will have a fixed relationship with it? Am I correct in my interpretation and, if so, does the Prime Minister accept that that will be very widely welcomed, not only in the Conservative party?
The Prime Minister:
Yes, my hon. Friend sets out the position entirely accurately. It is as he says.
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West):
May I say to the Prime Minister that, personally, I very much welcome the concept of a single currency, although certain safeguards are necessary, including making unemployment levels part of the convergence criteria?
On a more practical matter, was the story in the Sunday newspapers--that the Queen's head is too large for the "Euro" coin--true? If that is so, does the Prime Minister intend to negotiate the size of the coin, or does he have more drastic measures in mind?
The Prime Minister:
On the hon. Gentleman's first argument about unemployment levels, I simply have to say to him that, if he were to make unemployment levels part of the convergence criteria, there would be no single currency in his political lifetime, however long that is likely to be.
Ms Clare Short (Birmingham, Ladywood):
It depends what the banding is.
The Prime Minister:
The hon. Lady says, "It depends what it is." She probably believes that the 13 per cent. of France is a good convergence level. I am not sure that that is what her hon. Friend had in mind. Perhaps that is another difference between Labour Front and Back-Bench Members; I cannot imagine. We seem to be uncovering so many differences today that it is difficult to determine. Let us hope that we can go on and find some more.
Sir Peter Hordern (Horsham):
As very few countries will be able to qualify for the single currency, will my right hon. Friend say what the position of those countries will be when they find that their economies are subject to intense competition from the countries that do not form part of the single currency? Will he give the House an assurance that, in that event, there can be no suggestion of any reprisals being taken by members of the single currency against countries outside it?
The Prime Minister:
My right hon. Friend puts his finger on precisely one of the matters that I have been raising with our colleagues at the European Council. It is precisely for that reason that some of the countries that anticipate that they will be in a single currency have asked for an exchange rate mechanism outside the single currency, to prevent the flexibility with which countries usually deal with economic difficulties. The danger of that, apart from the inherent difficulties that have been demonstrated several times in the past six or seven years, is that it would lead to very high structural levels of unemployment in some of the weaker-performing countries in the southern part of Europe.
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