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DELEGATED LEGISLATION

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Geoffrey Lofthouse): With permission, I shall put together the motions relating to delegated legislation.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 101(6) (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation),

Rating and Valuation

That the draft Non-Domestic Rating (Chargeable Amounts) (Amendment No. 3) Regulations 1995, which were laid before this House on 30th November, be approved.

Taxes

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Estates of Deceased Persons and Inheritances and on Gifts) (Netherlands) Order 1995 be made in the form of the draft laid before this House on 16th October, in the last Session of Parliament.--[Mr. Freeman.]

Question agreed to.

EUROPEAN COMMUNITY DOCUMENTS

Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 102(9) (European Standing Committees),

Integrated Pollution Prevention and Control

That this House takes note of European Community Documents Nos. 9491/93 and 7511/95, and of the unnumbered Explanatory Memorandum submitted by the Department of the Environment on 2nd June 1995, relating to integrated pollution prevention and control; welcomes the Common Position achieved on this proposal on 22nd June; regrets the inclusion of certain activities in the Directive's scope, such as intensive livestock farming, food production and some industrial sectors, which do not readily lend themselves to this integrated approach; but congratulates the Government on the Common Position as a whole, which will secure the application in Europe of an innovative British approach to pollution control.--[Mr. Freeman.]

Question agreed to.

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HMSO

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.--[Mr. Freeman.]

6.43 pm

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Roger Freeman): Anyone with a working knowledge of the House or of any Department of Government, will know that Her Majesty's Stationery Office has a long and illustrious history. It is one of the oldest Government Departments remaining in existence.

In 1786, a Treasury official called John Mayor suggested that the Government might make substantial savings if they bought all their paper and stationery through a central source. As a result, Her Majesty's Stationery Office was established as a small office fulfilling precisely that role. In all its activities since then, it has continued to honour that founding purpose by providing its customers with a cost-effective and high-quality service.

From such humble origins, HMSO gradually expanded into many other sectors, including printing and print buying, all aspects of publishing and supplying stationery, office equipment and furniture. In many of its activities, it came to represent a single, authoritative and trustworthy supplier to government and, in return, HMSO has been assigned many functions vital to effective government in this country.

For more than 100 years, HMSO has acted as printer to Parliament and, as hon. Members are of course aware, has also provided a service of the highest quality and efficiency, which is vital for the effective conduct of business in the House and the other place.

Much of HMSO's official printed output has, since 1882--

Mr. Patrick Thompson (Norwich, North): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way so early in his remarks, but while he is doing a historical survey of HMSO, and bearing in mind HMSO and Hansard's very strong connections with Norwich, will my right hon. Friend make crystal clear his commitment to future jobs in Norwich? Will he also express his determination that there will remain a very strong presence for HMSO in Norwich in future, as there has been in the past?

Mr. Freeman: I am well aware of my hon. Friend's attention to his constituency duties, and I am able to give the following assurances about employment prospects: first, that Ministers will continue to consult the trade union representatives of the work force; secondly, that I can confirm that there are no plans for compulsory redundancies at HMSO in Norwich or anywhere else in the period running up to the proposed sale of the business; and, thirdly, that the provisions of the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 1981 will apply. Incidentally, the provisions of TUPE are not time-limited. As far as a buyer is concerned--

Mr. Martin O'Neill (Clackmannan): I am grateful to the Minister for giving way at this early stage, but surely he is aware that, after 90 days, the requirements of TUPE are over and that there is no commitment on the part of an incoming employer to honour the undertakings laid down by his predecessor for any longer than that period.

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The Minister should check with his officials, because that is the position, and there is chapter and verse in industrial relations law at present to show that that is the case.

Mr. Freeman: The provisions of TUPE apply, obviously, at the point of transfer of an undertaking from one owner to the other, and the owner is bound by those provisions. If an owner seeks to change and negotiate changes in the terms and conditions that apply to the work force of the business, the usual procedures for negotiations apply.

Perhaps the House will permit me to complete my answer to the first intervention, I inadvertently gave way a second time during my answer to the first intervention.

Finally, as I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, North (Mr. Thompson) that, in searching for an acceptable purchaser of the business, we shall seek to select a company that wishes to, and has clear and acceptable plans to, expand the business of HMSO.

No Minister can give any assurances about the total level of employment or the nature of the operations of any public or private sector organisation in future, but I hope that my hon. Friend is satisfied with those four very clear assurances of our policy.

Mr. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston): Further to the question to which the Minister has just responded, is it not the case that, the day after the change of ownership, the new employer can give contractual notice in respect of any term and condition of employment? Given that that is so, is the Minister therefore saying that he is guaranteeing, in the sale arrangements, a commitment that any future purchaser would have to give something stronger than the basic contractual requirements? Is he saying that a term of the sale will be something that guarantees that changes will not take place in contracts of employment?

Mr. Freeman: I would not use the word "guarantee". I said that, in seeking a purchaser for the business, we shall look for a company that wishes to expand the business, and therefore the job prospects. I did not say that we would either seek or expect guarantees from any company. If HMSO were to remain in the public sector, I could not guarantee what jobs would be retained. I have already forecast that if HMSO remains in the public sector, its business and its employment base will contract.

Mr. John Garrett (Norwich, South): Why?

Mr. Freeman: For the very simple reason that the business of government is reducing. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is aware that, in the past 10 years, the work force of HMSO has contracted very substantially; it has halved in the past decade. That contraction is primarily a function of the reduced volume of turnover available to HMSO within the public sector.

Since 1882, much of HMSO's official printed output has had the unique legal privilege of being conclusive evidence of the matter stated and it is frequently relied on in the courts. By the end of the decade, HMSO had assumed formal responsibility for overseeing legislative printing and the then controller of HMSO and his successors were appointed as Queen's or King's printer in pursuit of that function. From that time, the controller

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has also administered Crown copyright on behalf of the sovereign and, by agreement with the House and the other place, he also administers parliamentary copyright. In discharging those functions, HMSO has demonstrated and enhanced its reputation for diligence and reliability, which is now well known across the public sector and beyond.

The parliamentary and statutory publishing business accounts for about 10 per cent. of HMSO's total turnover. HMSO has always relied substantially on its original activities of supplying its customers with the essential requirements of administration--for example, printing services, office equipment and stationery. HMSO naturally brings to that work the same reputation for high quality and service. Since its founding days, it has been guided by the need to minimise the overall cost to the Government, and therefore to the taxpayer, while maintaining the standards that its customers have come to expect. That objective has guided the Government's policy of reforming HMSO in the past 15 years and it must clearly be paramount in any decisions taken about its future.

For the greater part of its history, HMSO's services were funded by means of an annual vote from Parliament. HMSO's supplies were, in accountancy terms, an allied service. Therefore, its customers did not have to draw on any of their voted funds to pay for the goods and services that they received. They effectively received them free. Although they benefited from HMSO's purchasing expertise and the savings that are inevitably made when buying in bulk, there was no incentive for them to look for a better deal elsewhere. Similarly, there was no pressure on HMSO to ensure that it offered the best deal.

As alternative suppliers became increasingly available for most HMSO services, it was clear that more could be done to ensure that the cost to the taxpayer was minimised. For those reasons, in 1980 HMSO became one of the first of the Government's trading funds. That meant that, for the first time, it had to cover all its costs through customer charges rather than through an annual vote of cash. In return, it gained considerable management freedom over operational and finance matters.

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