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1.25 pm
Mr. Piers Merchant (Beckenham): The Bill is timely, relevant and balanced. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Lady Olga Maitland) on introducing it today, and on the excellent way in which she presented it.
It is timely because it comes soon after the tragic killing of Philip Lawrence, which has been mentioned, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Greenway) in a moving speech. The Bill also comes after a number of highly publicised knifing cases--sometimes bringing death, sometimes serious injury--including those of police officers. The whole nation's conscience has been jarred by those acts of crime, so the Bill also responds to a public demand for action. The Bill also comes at a time when the use of knives in crime has reached a high level, and when the sale of knives ensures that they still proliferate.
The Bill is relevant not just because it is a reaction to immediate popular concern, but because it comes in the wake of considerable examination of the problem of knife crime by the Home Office. I commend my hon. Friend the Minister and my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary for their work in driving both study and action in the right direction to ensure that legislative steps are taken to deal with knife crime.
The Bill also responds to the concerns of the police force and chief police officers, who have been aware of this mounting problem, and who have rightly called for action. It is also relevant because statistics show that,in the past 10 years, knife crime has increased and is still a serious problem.
Taking murders in London, for example, about 74 of the 162 murders in the last year for which figures are available were caused by knives. As my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam has said, knives have played a part in about one third of total crimes of violence against the person, which shows the extent of the problem.
Another way of illustrating that point is to consider the national homicide figures. In 1994, the last year for which figures are available, 236 of the total number of homicides were stabbings. If we compare that with the other causes of death, we will find how much greater is the proportion caused by knives and pointed instruments. There were111 deaths caused by being hit or kicked--the next category--106 stranglings, 63 shootings, 56 coshings and 23 poisonings. That shows the magnitude of the problem.
This is a balanced Bill. It is necessary to balance the need of society to protect the innocent against crime with the legitimate right of ordinary individuals to use instruments that, in other hands, could be deadly. The Bill is balanced in that respect. We would be wise to remember the complete lack of balance in the gun laws in the United States, where there is a direct correlation between the number of deaths and injuries caused by firearms and the availability of those weapons. Luckily, that has never happened in this country, because of our strict laws in that respect.
The Bill is balanced because it brings penalties and police powers more into line with what is needed. It does that in a sensitive way; it does not go over the top. It is important to keep the array of penalties and powers in line with those in other areas of the criminal law. To give the power of arrest to the police when they find people carrying weapons in public is relevant. To double the penalty for unlawfully carrying weapons is commendable.
The Bill is also balanced as a deterrent. Of course, deterrence is about balance. A person intent on crime has to balance the rewards from carrying out that crime with the penalties that might follow. The Bill will send out a
strong message to those who are tempted to buy and carry knives that there is a severe penalty for doing so, because society rightly will not tolerate it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam was right to raise a legal question about the sale of knives to under-16s. I hope that we can include in the Bill a much stricter regulation to control that. Where knives exist and can be purchased, inevitably they will be carried; where they are carried, inevitably there will be crime and a risk to innocent people.
I want to give an example of the availability of knives and pointed instruments and the balance between holding them legitimately and using them illegitimately. This morning, I went around my house and made an inventory of my armoury. I did not realise I had one until I did this.
I found that I had in my possession three swords,a sharp grafting knife, another extremely sharp garden knife, two Stanley knives, a bread knife, about six other sharp kitchen knives, four surgical scalpels, five chisels and a number of other sharp and vicious instruments.I assure you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I have not brought any of them with me today. I never take them out of the house.
I keep and use those instruments for legitimate purposes, most of which are obvious. However, in case one is not obvious I should explain that I hold surgical scalpels because they are useful for cutting pieces out of newspapers. I like to keep a collection of reports on what I have said, so that in my more lonely hours I can stare at them.
Mr. Peter Atkinson (Hexham):
What about the swords?
Mr. Merchant:
Two of the three swords are Sikh scimitars, which were presented to me--one of them is engraved--for work with the Sikh community. A friend of mine, who happens to be an expert on knives, was fascinated by the swords and took one away because he wanted to know what metal they were made of and whether they could be sharpened. I allowed him to do it, and he came back and told me that not only was it blunt--as I knew--but that it could not be sharpened. The quality of the metal was so poor that the sword would snap if any attempt was made, and that reassured me. My third sword is an historical sword, which, I am glad to say, is also completely blunt and unusable.
I shall end by illustrating the difference between holding such weapons and using them. There would be cause for question if I were suddenly to be seen in the high street of Beckenham with my loins girded, waving in my hand one of my swords, or if I were to appear at the door of the prospective Labour candidate in my constituency, holding in my hand a scalpel. That shows the difference between the legitimate possession of weapons that could be and are dangerous, and their illegitimate carrying and use.
Mr. Don Touhig (Islwyn):
May I start by apologising to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and to the House for leaving the Chamber during this short debate? A number of villages in my constituency have had no electricity for the past four days, and they needed me to get involved to help them out.
It is important that we send the right message from the House on this issue. It is important that we make it clear to those who would carry weapons with the intention of harming or endangering anyone that we will enact laws that will make them pay a high price for doing so. The second most popular subjects of letters in my constituency post bag are matters related to crime and to law and order.
The Bill is very important, as it addresses some of the problems we face. The public need to be reassured that Parliament is going to take the issue very seriously.A number of hon. Members have referred to the tragic death of Philip Lawrence, and no one who witnessed the scenes on television or read in the newspapers of his terrible death could fail to be moved. The great trauma that these incidents cause to families and communities can be almost too great to measure.
My eldest daughter and son-in-law were mugged at knifepoint during a trip to Paris. My daughter, rather foolishly, chased after the mugger and demanded that the purse, which belonged to her mother, be returned to her, even if the mugger kept the money. The trauma and distress that that caused was immense for them and for the whole family.
The hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Lady Olga Maitland) was asked about exemptions for people who lawfully carry knives--such as scouts--and said that provisions would be made for them. The hon. Member for Beckenham (Mr. Merchant) referred to the fact that he keeps scalpels in his house to enable him to take cuttings from newspapers.
I wonder whether it will be possible in Committee to highlight the fact that there are many safe and sharp cutting edges that cannot be used in an offensive manner. My second son, who is a student, has a part-time job at a cash-and-carry firm, and he carries a knife to open packages and so on. I am in possession of a very neat little plastic-covered instrument with a fine blade that can cut open all sorts of packages. I commend that instrument to the hon. Member for Beckenham as a much safer way to take cuttings from newspapers.
Perhaps that matter might be explored in Committee. We need an opportunity to show those companies and organisations which legitimately need staff to carry knives that they might find a safer method of doing so.
Lady Olga Maitland:
Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the real point is that there is a difference between people carrying something lawfully in the circumstances that he has described and people who have no good reason to be carrying a knife? For example,a person walking into a shopping centre with a knife in his jacket, which is open, clearly has no lawful reason or good excuse to be carrying that knife. That is quite different from someone who is going about their normal business or taking part in a hobby or some other activity. We are concerned about people carrying knives without a good excuse.
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