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Mr. Soames: I applaud entirely the point that my hon. Friend is making and can reassure him that last week I had the great pleasure of visiting flag officer sea training operations. I spent the day on HMS Montrose, where I had the privilege of watching the first woman qualified senior navigator in the Royal Navy navigate the ship under the most difficult and testing circumstances--and she did a wholly admirable job.
Mr. Griffiths: I am most grateful to my hon. Friend. My purpose in raising the matter was to seek exactly such an assurance. However, we should be clear that only
25 per cent. of female sailors at commander rank have ever served at sea, as have 45 per cent. of those at lieutenant commander rank and 50 per cent. of those at sub-lieutenant or midshipman rank. My hon. Friend has made it clear that there is no reason to believe that women are not capable of carrying out command roles at sea.
The way in which women are seen on board ship depends on the rank at which they serve. When young women ratings face what is perhaps not serious harassment, but which may cause problems that they would like to discuss with someone else, they feel less able to complain if the senior female officer aboard the ship is ranked no higher than a sub-lieutenant. If there were senior women officers on board to whom such matters could be referred, any problems could be dealt with quickly without becoming the subject of formal complaints. Indeed, they probably would not occur at all if the circumstances that my hon. Friend described on HMS Montrose were more widespread. We should make every use of the skills and qualities of the women who serve in the Navy.
Ms Rachel Squire (Dunfermline, West):
I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Portsmouth, North(Mr. Griffiths), who made many excellent and pertinent points. I am also pleased to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Mr. Murphy), who made an excellent speech. I join the Minister and others in paying tribute to the Royal Navy and the commitment and loyalty of its service and civilian personnel, who strive to maintain its position as a world leader. However, I wish that the Government would do more to demonstrate their loyalty and commitment to those people.
As has been mentioned, there has been further delay and indecision in the past 12 months. The Government are constantly saying one thing and doing another. Ministers have promised announcements in August, September and November and then before Christmas, but the saga continues. I quote Admiral Sir Benjamin Bathurst's comments about the defence costs study:
The hon. Member for Portsmouth, North also made that point.
Mr. Soames:
Like the hon. Lady, I have great admiration for Admiral Sir Benjamin Bathurst. In the context of the admiral's wise words, which she quoted, he also said that the storm may be over, but inevitably turbulence--the swell--will continue.
Ms Squire:
I thank the Minister for his intervention.I shall quote the admiral again during my speech. In
I am sure that it will come as no surprise when I say that I plan to devote most of my speech to Rosyth, the dockyards generally and the issues of concern to them.I appreciate, of course, what the Minister of State for Defence Procurement said about Rosyth and Devonport. Unfortunately, however, his remarks did not bring much comfort or certainty for the yards' prospects.
As for the Rosyth naval base, I appreciate that much work still needs to be done to try to ensure a seamless transfer of the personnel, as well as the site and its facilities, to Rosyth 2000. I welcomed the decision when it was made. I appreciate the Minister's efforts and willingness to address the issues, and to meet yet again myself and my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline, East (Mr. Brown) next week to have a further discussion.
It is my experience, however, and that of the people at the naval base, that others have not been quite so helpful or willing. It seems that the pace of the land agency with responsibilities for defence establishments varies between go slow or stop when it comes to trying to facilitate economic regeneration and progression. I shall be delighted if the agency proves me wrong in the next few weeks.
I pay tribute, however, to many of those who have been involved as the base transfers to become a supportive establishment. I pay tribute, of course, to all the personnel at the base, to the councils involved, to private enterprise and to the Scottish Office. I congratulate them on their efforts. I thank the Minister for once again commending the service and loyalty to their country of all those who have served and are serving at Rosyth naval base.
It would be remiss of me not to pay tribute to the men and women who have served at RAF Pitreavie, both in the naval service and in the RAF. The station finally closed its doors this week as its operations were transferred.
Is it still planned to transfer the naval base and its facilities to commercial operations on 1 April? There should be a definite timetable to allow other decisions to be made to facilitate the planning process. I appreciate that there may be continuing difficulties, but surely it should be possible to make enabling arrangements to achieve the seamless transfer that we all know is in the interests of the base.
I join my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen, the Opposition spokesman, in opposing the dismantling of the Royal Naval Auxiliary Service. I join him also in paying tribute to the reserve forces. I am delighted and honoured that, during the past week, I have been asked to become a vice-president of the Maritime Voluntary Service. I was delighted to accept the honour, and I shall do everything I can to support it.
Mr. Peter Griffiths:
Will the hon. Lady's new office involve service at sea?
Ms Squire:
I hope so. I participated in the armed forces parliamentary scheme with the Royal Navy, and found it invaluable. My only qualm is at the number of jackstay transfers that I would be required to undertake. I accept, of course, that it is all good training and experience. Perhaps it is not for me to join the Royal Navy full time but instead to deal with some of the turbulence and uncertainty that this place sometimes introduces.
I repeat my view that the Government are guilty of mismanaging and mishandling the dockyards. Even the National Audit Office has agreed to consider the need for a further report on dockyard matters whenever the Department finally announces its decisions.
The Minister has once again failed to bring any certainty to the two royal dockyards. He has given no guarantees on pensions, redundancies or pay and conditions. He has not said that there will be no changes without agreement. Is he willing to give such guarantees today? If not, will he say when he intends to give them?
There is a growing rumour that the term contract for both dockyards, which is due to end on 1 April, is likely to be extended. Is that the position? If so, how long will the extension be? When does the Minister expect to make a decision on the contract award? When will announcements be made on additional submarine work and an aircraft carrier coming into Rosyth? Are there any impending programme changes for either Rosyth or Devonport? Is the Minister able to be any more specific, rather than saying that an announcement will be made in a few weeks? I have been hearing that phrase throughout my time in this place.
I have concentrated so far on shoreside infrastructure at Rosyth and Devonport. It is not glamorous, but it is vital. That is not my view and mine alone. I shall quote from an article that Admiral Sir Benjamin Bathurst wrote in August 1995 for the Royal United Services Institute. The quotation leads me to make some comments about the wider agenda, including the size of the fleet and forces, the support infrastructure and procurement. The admiral said:
The admiral then referred to service personnel. I have not found morale in the Royal Navy as high as thehon. Member for Portsmouth, North has described. Perhaps my outlook has been affected by my proximity to Rosyth naval base, which is about to close, and by not being where most naval personnel are located, but even during my time with the armed forces parliamentary scheme, morale often seemed low on board the ships.
The admiral also said:
There is great concern that the continuing reduction of the fleet and service personnel is affecting morale. We are still waiting for the fleet to reach its planned strength of 25 minesweepers, with 35 destroyers and frigates, three carriers and 12 nuclear submarines. The only prospect of a minor reduction in the Navy's commitments will come next year in the final withdrawal from Hong Kong.Hon. Members and Ministers have already mentioned the
Royal Navy's extensive commitments, and evidence shows that, since 1993, the Royal Navy's resources have been stretched in meeting its commitments.
The permanent deployment of a carrier and a number of escorts to the Adriatic contributed to the Royal Navy's withdrawal from a number of NATO exercises, which inevitably impacts on the training and experience available for naval personnel. It also puts increased pressures on service families--a point that the Minister mentioned in his opening speech--who are separated for ever longer periods.
I would welcome the Minister's comments on the Ministry of Defence's directorate of operational capability last year, which said that there were weaknesses in sealift during a paper exercise to see whether Britain could mount an amphibious operation similar to that of the Falklands. All that can affect morale in the Royal Navy and the adequacy of our defence and security cover.
That leads me to the merchant fleet--an issue that has already been raised. I quote from another admiral--Rear-Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan, who made a vital point in 1890, in a document entitled, "The Influence of Sea Power on History", in which he said:
"I am conscious, of course, that these changes were not without their downside for some of our people . . . Many were, and perhaps still are, exposed to turbulence and uncertainty."
"Successful operations, collaboration and training, particularly when resources are stretched, depend on an adequate shore-side infrastructure to guarantee that we make the most of what we have at sea. Stores and engineering may not be to the public eye the stuff of glamour, but whilst an army may still march on its stomach, a fleet relies on readily available support to remain effective and efficient."
"uniformed people may appear to be more expensive during the relative calm and tranquillity of peacetime programmes which are planned and structured. But when we have to despatch a force, or repair ships, or replace crews, or sustain an operation, we need that base from which to generate the required support . . the armed forces provide an insurance policy and we must be capable of honouring the obligations for which the public pay the premium."
"Sea power in the broad sense includes not only the military strength afloat that rules the sea or any part of it by force of arms, but also the peaceful commerce and shipping from which alone a military fleet naturally and healthily springs and on which it securely rests."
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