House of Commons
Friday 2 February 1996
The House met at half-past Nine o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
Sexual Offences (Conspiracy and Incitement) Bill
Order for Second Reading read.
9.34 am
Mr. John Marshall (Hendon, South): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
I am delighted to have this opportunity to present a Bill that will make it an offence in this country to conspire to or to incite a person to commit certain sexual offences abroad against children.
In the 20th century, there has been a revolution in overseas travel, which was once the preserve of the privileged few, but which is now enjoyed by virtually everyone. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Sir M. Neubert), who was one of those who helped to encourage people to go abroad on relatively inexpensive holidays. The advent of the package tour industry has enabled many millions of people to visit far-off lands and to enjoy the cuisine and culture of other countries.
In the 1930s, Bob Boothby once took his lady friend to Portugal because he thought that no one would see him there. Today, he would have to go somewhat further afield. In the 1950s, when I lived in Glasgow, people would go to the Isle of Arran for their holiday; today they go to the beautiful island of Cyprus. In the 1950s they went to Cornwall; today, they go to Corfu.
Mr. Paul Tyler (North Cornwall):
People still come to Cornwall.
Mr. Marshall:
As the hon. Gentleman rightly says, some still go to Cornwall, but many others go to Corfu. Whereas in the 1950s people went to Brighton, today their horizons have been widened to Benidorm. For most people, that has been liberating, and for many countries international tourism has been an engine of economic growth. Countries such as Spain, Cyprus and Greece are blessed with fantastic weather and scenery and have prospered as a result of the growth in tourism.
The growth in international travel has not, however, been an unmitigated blessing. We have all seen the lager louts who are the most unfortunate ambassadors for this country and one of our least attractive exports. Other people use this new-found freedom to travel for far darker purposes. Paedophiles, or child molesters as they ought to be called, go to countries where child prostitution is rife in order sexually to abuse young children. We should be aware of the scale of the problem in some countries.
A radio programme last night reported that there are 200,000 child prostitutes in Thailand, that young girls there will sell their virginity for £35 and some boys become prostitutes at the age of 10. I am told that there are 60,000 child prostitutes in the Philippines.
I should like to thank a number of people who have helped me by writing to me about this particular problem.I also thank The News in Portsmouth for sending me extracts from a publication circulating in that part of the country and from which I shall read one or two paragraphs:
For a fee,
That is just one example of the sort of publication circulating in the United Kingdom but which one should seek to avoid.
Mr. Harry Greenway (Ealing, North)
rose--
Mr. Marshall:
I shall give way to my hon. Friend. For some years I was a constituent of his, and I know how well he represents all his constituents.
Mr. Greenway:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for those kind remarks; they are much appreciated.I congratulate him on presenting this very important Bill. Does he envisage any basic way in which would-be molesters of children and those with evil intent towards them who travel to Thailand and similar places could be cut off from the information that he has just described? Although that could be very difficult, should not an attempt be made? Does he intend to address the problem?
Mr. Marshall:
That is precisely what my Bill seeks to do. Once the Bill has become law, it will be an offence to publish such information because it will be regarded as inciting individuals to go to such countries and take part in such forms of activity. Indeed, the offence will be punishable by a substantial period of imprisonment.
Mr. Greenway:
My query relates directly to the subtlety of some of the advertisements. The problem is one of definition. Does my hon. Friend think that his Bill succeeds in defining matters? I am not sure that it will get at the more subtle advertisements, where--ultimately--the problems lie.
Mr. Marshall:
The publication that I was sent had no subtlety about it at all. Not even a one-eyed Albanian, as the late Robert Maxwell once said, would have difficulty understanding it. [Interruption.] I have nothing against one-eyed or two-eyed Albanians, and I should add that sexual tourism is not a problem in Albania.
In describing a hotel, the publication suggests establishing
The advertisement says that it is
It is clear what is meant in that description.
Referring to somewhere in the Philippines, the publication says:
I do not think that anyone could say that that was a mealy-mouthed turn of phrase.
In Brazil, a city is described in terms of the age of the street prostitutes. The publication says:
It is described by someone who
It is all very clear what is being suggested in such publications. Such people ought to be prosecuted and certainly they would be under my Bill.
Last year, an article in The Sunday Times quoted from a newsletter that referred to
It said:
The company, Thai Adventures, was obviously advertising very explicit sexual holidays, and such firms would certainly be caught within the remit of my Bill.
One cannot find words sufficient to describe the contempt felt by us all for the disgusting, degrading behaviour of some individuals. Unfortunately, some of the perverts who visit other countries for such holidays are British. I was appalled yesterday to discover that those who take part in acts against young children have no sense of shame.
At a conference organised by Elizabeth Sieff, which the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Mr. Maclean), also attended later in the afternoon, I heard a policeman describe someone who had gone to Thailand, indulged in acts of sodomy against a 12-year-old boy and returned to this country with a video of everything that he had been doing. One would have thought that instead of having a sense of pride in what he had done, he would have had such a sense of shame that he would never want to look at it on video. Yet that man was willing to do so; it is quite disgusting behaviour.
Mr. David Ashby (North-West Leicestershire):
Will not companies simply move their operations to countries where it is legal to advertise, such as Belgium, Holland or France? Are not we really considering an issue that requires more of an international agreement? Should we not be looking beyond ourselves to something wider?
Mr. Piers Merchant (Beckenham):
It is not legal in France.
Mr. Marshall:
As my hon. Friend said, it is not legal in France to advertise such holidays. We can pass a Bill in the House to ensure that such operators do not advertise
Mr. Marshall:
Frankly, why should we wait for15 European countries to agree on such an issue when we can get on with it here without the delay in Brussels?
Mr. Peter Bottomley (Eltham):
My hon. Friend is right to say that we can pass a measure here; indeed, we should. We should then widen the forum, perhaps taking it to the Council of Europe, which goes beyond the European Union and is interested in such human rights issues.
"If you want more information on Thailand and the hot spots of Bangkok, FXS Farang offers a classic underground paperback on where to go, how much to pay, and what to avoid in Bangkok and Pattaya."
"Scope International Ltd. will get you a copy of the paperback Bangkok Back Streets and a year's subscription to their newsletter."
"a rapport with the night staff or manager. See how tolerant they feel that week. They have seen it all before, so if you want to entertain30 teenagers a night tell them."
"An inexpensive British run hotel . . . you can meet some like-minded dirty old men in the bar on the sixth floor."
2 Feb 1996 : Column 1227
"There's no other resort like it on this planet, set among the pure white sands . . . with lazy palm trees meeting the blue sea, you will find a whole village devoted to the pleasures of total unadulterated sexual excess."
"Some of them have not even reached puberty."
"has a passion for these very, very young women and has studied them for several years."
"exciting adult playgrounds of the Far East."
"If you have the odd Pounds 100 each to spend or can spare Pounds 500 for a brief interlude with a hostess you may have an enjoyable evening."
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