THIS HAS BEEN UPDATED ON 5 FEBRUARY 1996
THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
OFFICIAL REPORT
IN THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE FIFTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 27 APRIL 1992]
FORTY-FOURTH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II
SIXTH SERIES
VOLUME 271
FIFTH VOLUME OF SESSION 1995-96
House of Commons
Monday 5 February 1996
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
NATIONAL HERITAGE
Industrial Museums
1. Mr. Pike: To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what proposals she has to make additional resources available to working industrial museums.[11756]
The Minister of State, Department of National Heritage (Mr. Iain Sproat): Government support for independent and local authority museums is distributed via various bodies that we fund, including the Museums and Galleries Commission and the network of area museums councils. It is for these bodies to decide on the support to be given to industrial museums from within their overall grant in aid allocations.
Mr. Pike: Will the Minister visit the Queen's street mill in my constituency? His visit would underline to him both the need to keep that type of museum in operation, open and working, and the considerable financial costs that are incurred in keeping such a museum in operation.
Mr. Sproat: I would very much like to receive an invitation from the hon. Gentleman to visit that museum.
I know that it will be a splendid museum when it is reopened, I hope, during the summer. The Government have given about £200,000 for refurbishment of the museum, including European regional development funding. I am glad that we have been able to do so and I look forward to the museum being splendidly reopened.
Dr. Spink: Will my hon. Friend confirm that the national lottery will make available to all museums a new source of funds, which will be available to working industrial museums? I am sure that he will agree that those museums are an important part of our heritage. Is myhon. Friend able to suggest why Opposition Members are so churlish as not to acknowledge the impact of the national lottery on our museums?
Mr. Sproat: About 60 museums and galleries have benefited from national lottery funds by about£98.6 million already. The lottery is a great addition to our ability to support museums. We already give about£24 million a year to the science museum and the Manchester museum. We recently funded a paper on how to look after working objects, which are a splendid part of our heritage.
Civil War Sites (Newbury)
2. Mr. Rendel: To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what maps her Department holds detailing the civil war sites of the first and second battles of Newbury.[11757]
Mr. Sproat: My Department has a copy of English Heritage's register of historic battlefields. This includes the first battle of Newbury, and contains a map of the site. The second battle of Newbury is not on the register, and my Department holds no maps detailing that site.
Mr. Rendel: Can the Minister confirm, therefore, that the route of the Newbury bypass cannot be said to have a serious effect on either of the battle sites? Nobody knows
exactly where the second battle was fought and, as for the first, the route merely cuts across the north-westernmost tip of where the king's forces were drawn up the night before the battle, and does not cross the battlefield site.
Mr. Sproat: I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman that what remains of the first battlefield site is not sufficiently damaged by the new bypass. As for what is known of the second battle of Newbury, little now remains save the memory.
Broadcasting (Regulation)
4. Mr. Martlew: To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage if she will make a statement on the future regulation of broadcasting content.[11759]
The Secretary of State for National Heritage (Mrs. Virginia Bottomley): The Broadcasting Bill currently before Parliament extends to new digital terrestrial services the obligations on impartiality, taste and decency now applying to commercial broadcasts. The new draft charter and agreement will place the BBC under equivalent obligations.
Mr. Martlew: Does the Secretary of State agree that the new Bill could have a detrimental effect on small regional television stations such as Border Television, whose headquarters is in my constituency? Is it not a fact that the Bill will make it more likely that it will be taken over by larger companies? Would that not reduce local accountability and local programming, and result in the loss of many local good-quality jobs?
Mrs. Bottomley: The hon. Gentleman will be aware that detailed consultation was undergone before we published the Bill. Regional factors--we examined this carefully--were some of the considerations. That is why we propose a new power for the Independent Television Commission to require strengthened regional programming. I hope that that will reassure the hon. Gentleman. No doubt the matter will be debated at great length when the Bill reaches this place.
Sir Patrick Cormack: Is my right hon. Friend really content with the standards of taste and decency at present observed on television? Does she truly believe that more will mean better?
Mrs. Bottomley: I agree with my hon. Friend that we must be ever vigilant about questions of taste and decency. We have reason to be proud of our public service broadcasting, and the campaign is one from which we can never relax. The strengthening of the Broadcasting Standards Council and the development of the Broadcasting Complaints Commission will be a further confidence-inspiring measure, which I hope will deliver on-going results from our media.
Dr. John Cunningham: After spending weeks drafting the Bill, including the passages on regulation of broadcasting, why did the Secretary of State wait until last Friday to publish, belatedly, a document on listed events? Why did she wait until the matter was in effect before the House before intervening? Is it not clear that it was the Government's intention in their Broadcasting Act 1990 to
give effective protection to listed events especially to prevent the monopolising of that part of our national sporting heritage by a single broadcaster? Is it not now appropriate, given the widespread public concern about these issues, that the law be strengthened to prevent the creation of a broadcasting monopoly, while not excluding any individual broadcaster from participating?
Mrs. Bottomley: There has been a huge increase in the amount of sport on television. There has been a huge increase in the amount of money going into sport, such that there is now greater participation and better facilities throughout the country than in almost any previous phase.
On the Bill, we first issued a detailed consultation paper on the ownership questions. We set out the arguments. We consulted. In the summer, we set out the consultation document on digital terrestrial television. We consulted in detail and listened to all the arguments. Now, as it is clearly the wish of Parliament to discuss the matter further, we have set out the arguments and the balance of interests, and we hope in the coming weeks that detailed consideration will be given to the issue so that the House can reach a conclusion.
National Lottery
5. Mr. David Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage how many people have won more than £1 million on the national lottery.[11760]
Mrs. Virginia Bottomley: There have been more than 75 million prizes, worth £2.6 billion, and 153 of those prizes were for more than £1 million. The good causes have won as well. On Friday, the billionth pound was awarded to St. George's market in Belfast by the national heritage memorial fund. In all, 107 awards of£1 million-plus have been made to flagship projects of sporting, artistic or heritage excellence--projects that will underpin our sense of national pride for the next millennium.
Mr. Evans: I thank my right hon. Friend for her reply. Does she agree that this is another huge Conservative success story, after having to drag the lot opposite kicking and screaming to accept a national lottery? Does she further agree that winners of huge lottery prizes might like to contemplate what might happen to their winnings if we ever have a Labour Government--who might introduce a 98 per cent. tax on high earnings? Is it not the height of hypocrisy that that lot over there, who did not want a lottery, mumble and grumble about high prizes yet queue up every Saturday for their lottery ticket? Say one thing and do another--is that not what they are all about?
Mrs. Bottomley: I agree with my hon. Friend that the Labour party, on almost every issue and undoubtedly on the lottery, says one thing and does another. As myhon. Friend knows only too well, the Labour party would increase the operating costs and reduce the amount of money coming through to good causes. We are building a better Britain with the great range of projects now available. Opposition Members sneer, but myhon. Friends are only too aware that the massive number of awards in sports, heritage and the arts are bringing new opportunities to young and old across the country.
Mr. Rooker: Does the Secretary of State appreciate that the only lottery prize that concerns me at present is
the millennium exhibition? Can she explain why she is conducting the negotiations connected with that important decision in secret? Why are those who wish to make bids unable to broadcast the contents of those bids to their relevant populations in either London or Birmingham? Why is this type of contract being put on ImaginationLtd. and the national exhibition centre? Is it just because--
Madam Speaker: Order. I have been very tolerant, but the hon. Gentleman is quite a long way off the question. There are questions about the millennium on the Order Paper; the hon. Gentleman should have tried to catch my eye when they were reached. The Secretary of State seems to be prepared to give him an answer, however, if he has reached the end of his question.
Mrs. Bottomley: I am indeed, Madam Speaker, because--[Interruption.]
Mr. Rooker: I did not intend to be out of order, Madam Speaker. The Secretary of State mentioned the developments that would result from the lottery--
Madam Speaker: I have to agree with the hon. Gentleman. The Secretary of State went very wide of the mark in her answer to the main question. Thehon. Gentleman is quite right. Would he like to finish his question? See how generous I am.
Mr. Rooker: I have apologised to you, Madam Speaker, and I think that I have made my point to the Secretary of State.
Mrs. Bottomley: It is a very fair question. Certainly, those who stage the millennium celebration will win much more than £1 million: a substantial sum is involved.I recognise the hon. Gentleman's strength of feeling and that of other Birmingham Members, and London Members have also put their case forcefully. The Millennium Commission and I will look in great detail at the issues involved--the financial aspects, and the way in which the festival can be celebrated. I give the House one absolute assurance, however: it will be a magnificent festival. It will lead the world. This will be a great moment for the whole country to celebrate the passing of one millennium and the potential of a new one.
There must be a degree of confidentiality because of the size of the sum involved, and the complexity of the issue. The commercial aspects must be considered. The Labour party may approach everything with a warmer heart, but it does so with a pretty frozen head. The issue of the millennium must be approached with both a warm heart and a clear head.
6. Mr. Robert G. Hughes:
To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage how many charities which assist young people have been awarded funds from the national lottery.[11761]
Mrs. Virginia Bottomley:
More than 1,000 awards, to a value of £75 million, have been made to organisations directly concerned with young people. Of those, 101, worth more than £15 million, have been made directly to schools.
Helping the nation's young people is an investment in our future. I propose to give lottery distributors the ability to provide revenue support for initiatives to help to develop sporting and artistic excellence in our country's young people.
Mr. Hughes:
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on some marvellous achievements, including the grant for the Harrow leisure centre. That grant will enable the centre to reopen, and to help many young people in my constituency. Does my right hon. Friend agree, however, that a national team of young people should compete in each sport that is represented in the Olympic games? Does she also agree that, where we have no national team, the Sports Council should consider giving grants, so that young people playing volleyball, for instance, have a pinnacle to aim for--and can probably beat the world as well?
Mrs. Bottomley:
My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, which I know has been heard by myhon. Friend the Minister with responsibility for sport. I can tell him that, so far, 50 sports are benefiting from lottery money, and 1,226 different awards have already been made. They cover a wide range: for instance, 122 awards have been made to bowling clubs.
Dr. John Cunningham:
It is true that the lottery has been hugely successful in raising funds--so much so that four major charities have today persuaded Dame Vera Lynn and Claire Rayner to launch a new scratchcard in an attempt to repair the damage to their revenue-raising that the lottery has caused. Three of the charities involved are the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, Scope and the Cancer Research Campaign.
Ought not the Government to have taken a much closer look at the potential damage to charities' fund-raising before launching the lottery? What response does the Secretary of State give organisations whose revenue has now been undermined by it?
Mrs. Bottomley:
I am surprised that the righthon. Gentleman did not read the recent account from the medical charities saying that they have had an extremely good year. In the face of expected concerns, many charities have devised a range of measures to increase their fund-raising. A recent Gallup survey suggested that, overall, there had been a 5 per cent. increase in donations to charities, and a MORI poll found that, whereas2 per cent. of people said that they were planning to give less, 4 per cent. said that they were planning to give more. There is mixed evidence. Much information suggests that the charities have had a good year. Many of them are responding to the opportunity of scratchcards to raise their own cash, but the long and short of it is that 80 per cent. of the £1 billion that has been awarded has gone to charities. They have had a bonanza out of the lottery.
Mr. Brooke:
Does my right hon. Friend take pleasure in or feel concern for the fact that more than half the oral questions tabled for her to answer today were about the national lottery?
Mrs. Bottomley:
My right hon. Friend, who has much responsibility for the fact that we have this magnificent and, in practice, successful lottery, asks a question that is precisely to the point. The lottery has taken over as the
Mr. Simon Hughes:
In the same vein, will the Secretary of State confirm that many of the teachers, youth leaders and people who provide facilities for young people are most concerned that, nowadays, things outside the national curriculum--the opportunity to go to theatres, concerts, films, swimming pools or sports arenas--are increasingly prohibited because of the charges that are imposed? Young people have no access to those facilities. Given the initiative that she took last week, will she consider the way in which national lottery money could help young people to have access to facilities outside core education? Otherwise, those young people, especially if they are in lower-income families, will not have access to such facilities any more.
Mrs. Bottomley:
The hon. Gentleman will be only too aware that his part of the world, for example, contains the magnificent new bankside project--which has received £50 million--a museum of modern arts and the Globe theatre. It is not so far away from another important lottery project. We intend that the change in rules, on which we are consulting, will enable youngsters to participate in our great artistic and cultural heritage, through concessionary tickets, through support for touring and through a range of educational measures. Once the consultation is complete, it will be for the arts, heritage and sporting organisations to take the opportunities and to make their applications to use that lottery money. We must invest in the country's talent as well as in its buildings.
Mr. Anthony Coombs:
I recognise the lottery's fantastic achievement in funding sports facilities for young and old alike, including the new Starport sports centre in my constituency--which will give a new home to both the Starport hockey club and the Starport athletics club--but does my right hon. Friend agree that it is time to consider the possibility of setting up a trust fund, out of which payments could be made for sports scholarships and sports expenses for talented young sportsmen?
Mrs. Bottomley:
My hon. Friend deals with an issue that we have raised during our consultation on how to modify the rules. We were anxious to take forward the consultation on the modification of the rules precisely to invest in a talent fund to promote the youngsters of tomorrow to ensure that we have Olympic athletes, as well as to extend further participation generally.
7. Mr. Tony Banks:
To ask the Secretary of State for National Heritage what assessment she has made of the impact on good causes of the national lottery.[11763]
Mrs. Virginia Bottomley:
The national lottery is a resounding success. In just over a year, more than£300 million has been raised for each of the five good causes.
Mr. Banks:
I am not sure that I heard the righthon. Lady say that at our last dinner party. Whatever the impact of the lottery on good causes, will she give a
Mrs. Bottomley:
I know not whether I said that at a recent dinner party or whether it was said, for example, by the people who were interviewed about thehon. Gentleman's salary a few days ago. If he had asked those people about the lottery, they would have been much more enthusiastic in their response to that than they were about the remuneration of hon. Members.
Be that as it may, the hon. Gentleman might like to provide advice on how he has managed to scoop the jackpot in his constituency. I see that it has received no fewer than 12 different awards for caring charities, ranging from the Newham Bengali community trust to the pier training shop and Victim Support. The hon. Gentleman has done better than any other hon. Member.
In terms of other projects for which lottery funding might be made available, I am sure that thehon. Gentleman is aware that the distributing bodies decide on the basis of applications. I am aware of no distributing body that has had an application in respect of the matter that he describes.
Mr. John Greenway:
How quickly can we get money through to the good cause of young people who have won places at arts, drama, music and dance colleges but cannot get a discretionary grant to fund their places at those colleges? Is it for the Arts Council to decide these matters? Could we not have something in place so that young people who are to go to those colleges and schools this autumn have a chance of proper funding from the lottery?
Mrs. Bottomley:
My hon. Friend raises an issue that is of legitimate concern to hon. Members. Overall, the lottery intends to provide talent funding for those who would not otherwise be entitled to funding from local authorities. In all sorts of areas it is possible to increase talent and promote excellence. Fundamentally, that is a matter for local education authorities, and a number of the interests that are involved are seeing whether it would be possible to assist and encourage education authorities to face their responsibilities with some assistance from lottery money.
Mr. Fisher:
Since one of the best causes will be the millennium exhibition and the celebrations associated with it, does the Secretary of State agree that, whatever site the Millennium Commission chooses for the exhibition, these are difficult celebrations to get right? The time until the end of the century is very short and the experience of Seville and other places shows the difficulties. Therefore, will the right hon. Lady turn her attention from the rhetoric on which she relies to some action, and establish a cross-departmental working party, to include the Department of Transport, the Department of the Environment and the Home Office, to look urgently at problems of infrastructure for tourism, policing, the environment and transport? Will she change this rhetoric for some action? The Government are in danger of dragging their feet and of turning what should be a great national success into a very questionable event.
Mrs. Bottomley:
The hon. Gentleman is right in suggesting that the millennium festival is of such an order
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