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Sir George Young: I understand that the commercial director of LTS Rail has resigned and that one other member of staff has been suspended. I made it clear when I answered an earlier question that whether to re-tender for LTS is a decision for the franchising director, whichI expect him to make in the light of the investigation thatI have announced.
Mr. Mackinlay: He is prejudging it.
Sir George Young: There is no question of that investigation being prejudged. No decision can be taken until the inquiry is completed.
May I say how pleased I was to see the hon. Member at Waterloo station earlier this morning commemorating the inauguration of the first two privatised rail services?
Mr. Toby Jessel (Twickenham):
Having got up at4.30 yesterday morning to join my right hon. Friend on the first privatised South West train, the 5.10 from Twickenham to Waterloo--[Hon. Members: "You must have been mad."] Perhaps I was mad, but that is what I did. The train was clean, punctual and comfortable, and my constituents look forward to an improved service. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that there are 179 stations on South West lines as against 16 on the Southend line--
Madam Speaker:
Order. I remind the House that this is a very narrow private notice question. I shall be bringing it to a close shortly after those hon. Members who have a direct interest in that line have been called. The hon. Member must now come to the end of his question and make it relevant to the private notice question.
Mr. Jessel:
Does not that make the Southend line only one eleventh as important as South West Trains?
Sir George Young:
It is always a pleasure to meet my hon. Friend, and it was a special pleasure to meet him at five o'clock in the morning yesterday at Twickenham station and to share that historic first journey on a privatised train service with him. I had the benefit of my hon. Friend pointing out certain local features as we made the journey from Twickenham to Waterloo. Myhon. Friend rightly puts the problems before the House in perspective by reminding us of the scale of the service being provided by South West Trains and of the improvements that will take place.
Ms Margaret Hodge (Barking):
From the perspective of my constituents, the Southend-Tilbury line is of great importance. Barking station provides one of the few interchanges between British Rail and the underground. It is critical that there should be trust and co-operation between rail and the underground for that interchange to function. That trust and co-operation has been challenged by what has emerged this weekend.
Madam Speaker:
Order. I have not heard a question from the hon. Lady yet.
Ms Hodge:
Will the Secretary of State confirm that the line--known as the misery line--will not be well served if he continues the proposals to privatise it with that particular company? Will he introduce a more transparent mechanism to ensure that trust and co-operation can be built into the final authority for running the line?
Sir George Young:
The hon. Lady's constituents want a reliable train service. The prospective franchisees were offering more services than those currently provided, including additional services late at night and on Sundays. We are determined to provide a better service for the nation's passengers and commuters through franchising.
Mr. Jacques Arnold (Gravesham):
Bearing in mind the fact that rail fares have risen by 22 per cent. more than inflation in the nationalised railways, will my right hon. Friend remind the House that fares on privatised lines such as the Tilbury-Southend line, which is of direct interest to my constituents, will be pegged to inflation for four years and to increases equal to or less than inflation in the following three years, so it is vital that the privatisation of that and other lines takes place as rapidly as possible?
Sir George Young:
My hon. Friend has rightly reminded the House of safeguards that passengers have not had before on the level of key fares. From January this year, key fares have been capped to the retail prices index, and after three years they will go down by1 per cent. That contrasts with the 22 per cent. real increase in fares under the last Labour Government.
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West):
How many more crooks are involved in bidding for franchises in British Rail and how will the Secretary of State know that when the British Rail internal audit machinery has been abolished?
Sir George Young:
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will reflect on the language that he used in the light of what I said earlier. It would be wrong to prejudge any legal proceedings before the investigation has been completed. Before any franchise is transferred, the franchising director has to be satisfied of the integrity of the management. Other safeguards are built in through the regulator. I am confident that we have the necessary safeguards to protect public services.
Mr. David Lidington (Aylesbury):
Will my righthon. Friend assure me that the investigation into the alleged fraud will not hold up progress on the franchising of the Chiltern line, which is already under way, or prejudice the position of the management consortia that are bidding to make the Chiltern line service still better?
Sir George Young:
I can give my hon. Friend the assurance he seeks. There is no question of halting the franchising programme, which is making good progress. As we speak, 50 per cent. of passenger services by revenue have been let or are under offer. Final bids for next four franchises are due on 1 March. There is no evidence that any other train operating company has been involved in irregularities such as those we have discussed, so it would be wholly unjustified to arrest the franchising programme.
Mr. Keith Hill (Streatham):
On the subject of arrests, will the Secretary of State confirm that the scam would have been worth up to £360,000 a year to the future owners of the private railway company? Will he also confirm that, in future, 12 private railway companies will share their revenues with London Underground and
Sir George Young:
I can think of several comparable instances in the hon. Gentleman's borough--the London borough of Lambeth.
Mr. Michael Stephen (Shoreham):
Can my righthon. Friend confirm a point that appears to have been missed by most Opposition Members--that, when the irregularities occurred on the LTS line, the line was being run by public servants?
Sir George Young:
It is certainly the case that the LTS line was being run by British Rail when the irregularities took place.
Madam Speaker:
Order. I am now going to move on. I remind the House that we will have a wide debate on these matters on Wednesday.
Mr. George Foulkes (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)
rose--
Madam Speaker:
If the hon. Gentleman is seeking to catch my eye on that, he should do so then.
3.51 pm
Mr. Foulkes: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: The hon. Gentleman has a point of order for me because he did not get in.
Mr. Foulkes: I have been waiting since 2.30, so I am grateful. As you will know, Madam Speaker, on St. David's day, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, Central(Mr. Jones) will introduce a Bill that would give a right to interest on commercial debt. I understand that it has the support of the Government, yet I am told that, at the weekend, the Deputy Prime Minister admitted that, when he was a small business man, he was quite skilful at stringing along the creditors. If we now have an admission from the Deputy Prime Minister that he held off his creditors for as long as possible, is it not an example of hypocrisy--of saying one thing and doing another?
Madam Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is quite aware that that is not a point of order, and that he is abusing the time of the House.
Mr. Peter Hain (Neath): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Have you had any information from the Deputy Prime Minister that he intends to make a statement setting out a changed procedure for the Government paying their bills to outside businesses? Is the right hon. Gentleman advocating that the Government start fiddling their bill-paying by depriving businesses of much-needed income, which could drive them into bankruptcy, something which apparently he has been doing for many years?
Madam Speaker: I have not had any indication that the Government are seeking to make a statement today on that or any other matter. Let me make it clear to those Members who are seeking to raise points of order about statements that we are not expecting any statements today.
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