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Mr. Leigh: Does my right hon. Friend accept that the main purport of Locke's philosophy was that virtue must grow within the individual, and that it cannot be imposed on him from outside by the state or by another person?
Mr. Brooke: I give my hon. Friend an exceptionally good mark for the quality of his intervention. However, we could be moving down a slippery slope in terms of this type of legislation.
On the rare occasions when I ran advertisements myself, I always included the sentence, "A sense of humour would help". I once sat on an Air Canada plane next to a man who was writing letters, and his letterhead bore the title "professional humorist." I was tempted to engage him in conversation to discover whether his conversation was different from that of other men. I can see that, if there is such a thing as the society of anti-humorists, the phrase, "A sense of humour would help," might well be banned from advertisements as well.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow):
Mr. Deputy Speaker, when you called on me to speak, you might have said, "Follow that vignette of a speech made by the right hon. Member for City of London and Westminster, South(Mr. Brooke)". Let us note that it was a strongly supportive speech, for all its charm and erudition. The right hon. Member used the expression "Procrustean sieve". I do not pretend to be any authority on Procrustean sieves, but I must tell the Whips, if they have Procrustean sieves: for heaven's sake, let the private Member's Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North(Mr. Winnick) trickle through it, and nip in the bud any objections at 2.30 pm today or whenever these things happen. This Bill will not cost money, and it is a step in the right direction.
There is another consideration. If private Members' Bills that have come high up the ballot are rejected almost as a matter of course, it brings this form of parliamentary procedure into some disrepute. People who come high up the ballot and produce Bills that are of good will and limited--as my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North sensibly and eloquently said--should be given the benefit of any doubt. It would be a great pity--I shall put it no higher--if this Bill did not see the light of a Committee stage.
I should like to voice the concerns of Age Concern Scotland in this sphere. Age Concern Scotland is a very serious and sensible organisation, which has said that one job in every 10 advertisements in local and national
newspapers is likely to bar older people. It believes that that discrimination should be outlawed, and has asked Scottish Members of Parliament to help.
Because many of my colleagues would have liked to be here but have prior commitments, I am authorisedto speak on their behalf. I should say that I have spoken to them about it, and that I am not speaking only on my own behalf in this matter. We support, strongly and out of conviction, the private Member's Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North.
Age Concern Scotland has written in a letter to me:
in the Scottish context--
In our constituency work, time and again, we see people's sad and often pathetic reaction to the belief that they no longer have functions for their skills. My hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow (Mr. Dixon) knows very well--much more than I ever shall--about the shipbuilding industry. There are people, not only on Clydeside but in other yards, who have built up considerable skills. This Bill could certainly help them.
Legislation outlawing age bars in job advertisements would provide a positive sign that discrimination is unacceptable. It would encourage employers to rethink their policies, and accept that, irrespective of age, every person should have the right to be considered for work in relation to their needs, capabilities and wishes. Business can easily adjust to job advertisements that exclude age limits, in the same way in which they have adjusted to job advertisements that do not discriminate on the grounds of race or sex.
This will cost little or nothing to implement. A Financial Times editorial of 11 November 1995 noted:
If that is the considered view of the Financial Times, surely the Whips can give my hon. Friend the benefit of the doubt.
The Government's overall policy is to continue to oppose any legislative proposals, favouring instead voluntary codes of practice that seek to change attitudes. This Bill is more likely to achieve a change of attitudes. There is a need for this Bill, which the right hon. Member for City of London and Westminster, South has eloquently described. Again I ask the Whips: call off those hounds and do not object.
Age Concern Scotland continues:
I shall not make a long speech, but I should like to end with a passionately felt thought. The right hon. Member for City of London and Westminster, South and my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North were both personal, so perhaps I may be forgiven for being so.
My director of studies when I was a student, the then young Noel Annan, decided, because of staff shortages, to send four of us to be supervised by the late Sir Frank Adcock, professor of Greek, who was nearer 80 than 70at the time. Despite that, his mind was still as acute as it had been when he was the editor of the "Cambridge Ancient History"--and when, in the view of his contemporaries, he was arguably the best decrypter at Bletchley during the war. He thoroughly enjoyed this job: he was worth a guinea a minute.
I asked Sir Frank later why he had taken so much trouble with us. He answered, "What else have I got to do at my age? Teaching gives me a function; it adds value to going on living." I suspect that many others would echo that. Perhaps I was privileged to have such a distinguished supervisor. It is noteworthy that people in their late teens--in my case, because of national service, my early 20s--often take more easily to someone of their grandfather or grandmother's age than to those who are younger. That is why these people should be used.
When I was elected to this House in 1962, Her Majesty the Queen sent 200 telegrams of congratulation to those who had reached their 100th birthday. The other day, the Queen's private secretary, Sir Robert Fellowes, told me that 3,000 such telegrams were sent out in 1994. Clearly there has been a major change in work and life expectancy.
There is a widespread feeling that people can and should be used far beyond the time when their chronological age might dictate otherwise. In any case,I am not a great believer in chronological age. I know some Members of Parliament who are scarcely over 30 but whose real age appears to be nearer 70. [Interruption.] We are not going to indulge in names today--that would be dangerous. There are others near the chronological age of 70 whose general liveliness makes them seem less than half that age--
Mr. Ian McCartney (Makerfield):
Like my father.
Mr. Dalyell:
My hon. Friend's father is nearer 80 than 70, but anyone who talks to Hugh McCartney will realise that he is as subversive, irreverent and lively as he ever was.
"The Government estimates that 40 per cent. of employers discriminate on grounds of age. A Gallup survey carried out on behalf of Brook Street employment consultancy found that 70 per cent. of workers aged over 50 believed they have been turned down for a job because they were too old, even though they had the right skills . . .
Older people in employment are faced with early retirement and voluntary redundancy to get them out of the work place.Age discrimination makes it extremely difficult for them to get back into work. Nearly 50 per cent. of men over 60 are now"--
"unemployed. They may face years on a low income, using up any savings that they may have put aside for their retirement, and unable to build up adequate pension entitlement. This also wastes valuable skills and experience which otherwise could be contributing to the country's economy."
"little harm and some good may result from banning job advertisements which include age ceilings."
"The Carnegie Third Age Programme has promoted a voluntary initiative with many of Britain's biggest companies to prevent age discrimination. In co-operation with the CBI, major employers such as Tesco, Nationwide Building Society, John Laing, WH Smith and
9 Feb 1996 : Column 569other large and/or public companies have committed themselves to address age discrimination. A total of 93 of Britain's largest employers--90 per cent. of those who replied to a Carnegie questionnaire--committed themselves to not using age limits in advertising. But Age Concern still believes that as well as the carrot of a voluntary code, a legislative stick is also needed to ensure that attitudes amongst all employers change. A Bill outlawing age limits in job adverts would start to challenge attitudes towards the recruitment of older people, and allow employers the benefits of keeping older workers in employment."
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