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7.30 pm
I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne and other hon. Members that once the Provisional IRA ceasefire ended, the RUC was put on full alert, and all immediate steps were taken to increase the police presence on the streets and to ensure that police patrols were appropriately protected by flak jackets and were carrying the appropriate armaments. Equally, the RUC will be supported by the Army as necessary. All the measures taken during the ceasefire to lower security and ease the lives of the people of Northern Ireland will be reversed to protect the people as necessary.
My hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne asked whether the search for peace would continue. I can give him a straight answer--yes, the search for a political settlement in Northern Ireland must go on. There is no question about that. What is in question is the role of Sinn Fein and the genuineness of its commitment to the peace process. I can assure him that the Government and the Government of the Republic will continue to work to secure a lasting peace in Northern Ireland. That is very important.
My hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne asked whether the Government would be doing all that they could, through all the opportunities and contacts available to them, to persuade loyalist terrorists not to respond. Again, I can give a clear and positive answer. The Government are doing all that they can to prevent the awful slide into sectarian violence that none of us wishes to see recur in Northern Ireland.
My hon. Friend asked whether the Government of the Republic will be encouraged to do all that they can to assist in the prevention of terrorist crime. I can assure him that the moment the Provisional IRA announced the ending of the ceasefire, the Government and security forces of the Republic responded immediately to assist the RUC without any hesitation. I am pursuing contacts with the Government of the Republic to ensure that all appropriate measures necessary to protect the lives of people in Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland are taken.
My hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne asked whether Adams would again be granted a visa for the United States. As he must know, that is a matter for the United States Government. I believe that the renewal of any visa is under consideration in Washington, and I expect that the United States Administration will wish to take into account the renewal of violence. President Clinton has already condemned the bomb outrages in London and has expressed in robust terms his personal sadness at the betrayal of the hopes that he saw in Belfast when he visited in December. Department of Justice guidelines are in place to ensure that any money raised by fund raising in the United States can be used only for political purposes. Those guidelines have been in place since the summer of 1995.
The Government are reviewing very strenuously all the measures that they take to defeat terrorism, and are looking at intelligence and the way in which the police and other services are organised to respond to the threat. I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne that the police will be seeking those responsible for the crimes. They want to make arrests and bring people before the courts of law, and I can assure him that every endeavour will be made by the services of the Crown and supported by the Government towards that end.
The proposals of my hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne to extend the life of the measure are well understood, but I ask him--and the hon. Member for Mid-Ulster, who spoke in support of the new clause--to reflect on what I have said. I invite my hon. Friend to withdraw the new clause, and I give him and the hon. Member for Mid-Ulster--ever a reasonable man, in my experience--the firm undertaking that their proposal will be considered by the Government when the Bill reaches another place, in the light of developments between now and then. On that basis, I hope that my hon. Friend will seek the leave of the House to withdraw the new clause.
Mr. Wilshire:
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Clydebank and Milngavie (Mr. Worthington) for the gentle way in which he disagreed with me. I appreciate that he spared me some of the grief and pain that he could have inflicted, had he wished to, and I understand his points.
I disagreed with only one thing that the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon) said. He described his three points as forming a nationalist consensus, but I hope that he understands when I say that they do not: they form a democratic consensus. One does not have to be a nationalist or a Unionist to believe in what he said, and it goes without saying that I respect his right to use peaceful means to work for whatever he believes is in the best interests of his constituents.
The hon. Member for Mid-Ulster (Rev. William McCrea) will not be surprised to hear that I agree with what he said. I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister for clearly responding to all my questions. I hope that when the country at large hears what he has to say, people will be reassured that the Government are taking swift and resolute action in the face of a dangerous security situation. I also very much welcome the assurance that the need to extend the measure will be considered in another place.
I understand the criticisms of my new clause and the amendments: a humble Back Bencher faces grave difficulties in trying to draft new clauses, as we do not command the panoply of the civil service and we do not share in the Short money that Opposition Front Benchers have to help them get things right. Despite the shortcomings of my drafting, however, I suspect that the Government, the Opposition and the House clearly got the message that I was trying to deliver. The new clause is not needed to prove that not only this House but the British people will never be bombed into surrender and that we shall do whatever is necessary to uphold democracy and defend the innocent.
In that context, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Motion and clause, by leave, withdrawn.
Mr. Jim Dowd (Lewisham, West):
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Members of the Committee gave the Bill detailed consideration. This evening, the Opposition have tabled only two amendments; we approached Report with some circumspection, because we have closely examined many of the provisions in the Bill. I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Mr. Wilshire) and other hon. Members apropos the debate on the previous clause. The Committee concluded its deliberations on Tuesday6 February; the outrage at docklands took place on Friday 9 February; a device was discovered last week; and there was an horrific incident last night.
Last night, a No. 171 bus--which had left Catford, in my constituency--was destroyed at the Aldwych. At 10.38 pm last night I was sitting in my office at the back of the house, some six miles from the Aldwych, and I heard the explosion quite clearly. It is a strange experience, which I am sure that many hon. Members from Northern Ireland will know from personal experience. There is no sound on earth quite like it--I could immediately identify what it was, and a few moments later my worst fears were confirmed on the television. Every civilised person must have been deeply shocked and saddened by the recent events, and nowhere have those feelings been more widespread and profound than in Ireland, particularly in Northern Ireland.
The new clause is straightforward, so I shall not take up too much time discussing it. It seeks to place members of the armed forces and police officers exercising comparable powers in a similar position. As the hon. Member for Spelthorne and other hon. Members said earlier, when we were considering that issue in Committee, we hoped that the involvement of the Army in support of the Royal Ulster Constabulary would be a diminishing responsibility and, in the fulness of time, would cease altogether.
Sadly, events have taken a turn for the worse--to put it mildly--and additional troops have been ordered to Northern Ireland in readiness, but let us hope that they are not needed. Now that they are there, it underlines the point that I have tried to make with the new clause. Soldiers are not police officers--we accept that and we established it on numerous occasions in Committee--and it would be unreasonable to expect the same standards of training and
knowledge, particularly in the detailed points of law and responsibility, which police officers have. None the less, in Northern Ireland, soldiers and members of the armed forces are acting in support of the civil power. In those circumstances, the distinction between troops and police officers becomes somewhat blurred.
Clause 52, to which the new clause alludes, refers only to police powers and the ability of the Secretary of State to devise codes of conduct for the police. When we were drafting the new clause, we were careful not to do anything to displace military discipline, which must always be the overriding consideration for members of the armed forces. Since the 1991 Act, there have been significant changes to the part of the Bill to which the new clause refers. Clause 52 as it stands refers only to the provisions of the Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1989. Our new clause seeks to restore the position that existed under the 1991 Act.
Section 61 of the 1991 Act gave the Secretary of State the discretion to make codes of practice in connection with the exercise by the police of their powers under part II of the Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Act 1991 and the seizure and retention of property under the same Act. That discretion was subsequently removed from the Act. Section 62 also gave the Secretary of State the discretion to make codes of practice in connection with the exercise by members of Her Majesty's forces of any of the powers under part II of the 1991 Act. That is the provision that we are seeking to restore.
The tragic turn of events since the Committee completed its deliberations on the Bill is adequate justification for the caution that we would encourage in these circumstances. I accept that some hon. Members who served on the Committee will say that in other areas we were criticising the Government for not going far enough and for being too unadventurous on some of the proposals that they were suggesting, but we are now urging them to restore a provision that was in the 1991 Act.
' .--(1) The Secretary of State may make codes of practice in connection with the exercise by members of Her Majesty's forces of any of their powers under Part II of this Act.
(2) Subsections (2) to (5) and (7) of section 52 above shall apply to a code under this section as they apply to a code under that section.
(3) A failure on the part of a member of Her Majesty's forces to comply with any provision of a code under this section shall not of itself render him liable to any criminal proceedings other than--
(a) proceedings under any provisions of the Army Act 1955 or the Air Force Act 1955, other than section 70; and
(b) proceedings under any provision of the Naval Discipline Act 1957, other than section 42.
(4) In this section "criminal proceedings" has the same meaning as in section 52 above.'.--[Mr. Dowd.]
Brought up, and read the First time.
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