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Ms Glenda Jackson: I concur with everything that my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Gerrard) said. I shall speak particularly to new clause 2 and to paragraphs (d) and (e).
Even before the legislation is on the statute book, its provisions are being put into effect. Today I met a constituent who is a member of a religious order whose chapter house is located in my constituency. She is particularly concerned about the measures in the Bill because they will impact on local authorities and because they are already impacting on asylum seekers.
My constituent told me about a woman whom her order has taken in. She is eight months pregnant, entirely alone and homeless and penniless. When I intervened on my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North (Mr. Henderson), I referred to the Government's failure truly to consult local authorities about their responsibilities under the Housing Act 1985 and the Children Act 1989. I said that that failure is percolating through the system and I provided an example.
The woman I spoke of has every right to be housed by a local authority: she is a British citizen and her children were born in this country. However, because the Government have failed genuinely to consult local authorities and because that woman's skin is dark and her hair is black, a junior social services worker automatically presupposed that she was attempting to find housing under the asylum and immigration legislation and that her application would be denied.
My constituent to whom I referred earlier works very closely with the Refugee Advisory Council and she told me that she has documentary evidence to prove that more than 100 asylum seekers are living on the streets of London without any means of financial support. The Bill has not yet become law. If that is the situation now, what will happen when it is enacted? The Government must accept our seemingly simple amendments and exercise some common sense. They must consult genuinely with those who will be responsible for administering what appears to be an inordinately ill-thought-out legislation.
My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow referred to the identity card requirement as a forgers' charter.I agree with him absolutely. In the light of the Government's failure to consult on the Bill's real implications, we must also ask whether we shall see an increase in opportunistic crime. Will there be more
beggars on our streets? I do not claim that begging is a crime--people may have no alternative if they have no money and no means of finding support. Shall we receive complaints from our constituents about being harangued by beggars in the streets? Will letters appear in The Times and The Daily Telegraph complaining that so many beggars on our streets is bad for tourism? Such problems will increase because the Government have failed to speak to the people who, first, know what the Bill's implications will be; and, secondly, will be at the sharp end and will have to deal with its disastrous effects.
The Government have argued that it is vital to save British taxpayers £200 million. They have acknowledged, too, that the majority--some 90 per cent.--of asylum seekers and immigration applicants can be found in London. My local authority has estimated that the Bill will cost it an additional £4.6 million. If we multiply that figure by the number of London boroughs, we are looking at a cost that is infinitely greater than the supposed saving of £200 million. Of course, it is absolutely impossible to define in financial terms the human misery, degradation and despair that the Government's failure genuinely to consult will inevitably cause.
I urge Conservative Members to open their minds and imaginations--perhaps for the first time during the passage of the Bill--to what is buried under the simple words of the clauses and to think again.
Miss Widdecombe:
I thought that the previous debate was productive and sensible, but this one is a marked deterioration. I shall deal first with what I can describe only as the rantings of the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North (Mr. Henderson) who led for the Opposition. He began with the usual allegation that Ministers are playing the race card. One of the most damaging aspects of the debate is that Opposition Members regularly stir up alarmism and fear while accusing us of deliberately promoting discrimination.I believe that that is far more destabilising to race relations than firm and fair immigration controls, which is what the Bill is about. During his rant about racist comments, he omitted to refer to the hon. Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Vaz). I am sad that the hon. Gentleman is no longer in his place, and I acknowledge that he has been here for most of the proceedings. I should have liked to have heard him defend himself against the allegation that some of his remarks were not wholly unracist in tone.
Mr. Bernie Grant (Tottenham):
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Minister is making allegations about my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Vaz), who is not here, and she should know better. Will the Minister tell the House what she is alleging that my hon. Friend for Leicester, East said before she criticises him? It is not reasonable for her to do so without Members knowing what she is talking about.
Madam Deputy Speaker:
I must confess that I am not very clear either.
Miss Widdecombe:
I shall not provide further clarification for the very good reason that I did not give the hon. Member for Leicester, East notice that I wished to raise the issue. If he returns to the Chamber, and I have an opportunity to give him notice, I shall give the details, although they are quite well known.
I shall deal now with what I hesitate to call the substance of the speech by the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North--there was precious little substance to it. He said that the Government were afraid to discuss details of our proposals in Parliament. He ignored the fact that we have made available information about how the order-making powers under clauses 8 and 9 are intended to be used and, as has been acknowledged, we have produced a draft statutory instrument on the documents that employers will have to examine.I consider that to be most helpful of us, but it obviously passed by the hon. Gentleman's notice. He then referred to local councils, as did the hon. Member for Hampstead and Highgate (Ms Jackson). He was exercised about Westminster council for some wholly charitable reason on which I compliment him.
Mr. Henderson:
I am a resident.
Miss Widdecombe:
The hon. Gentleman is a resident, so of course he is worried.
The hon. Gentleman said that Westminster council was worried about our housing proposals. We need to determine the fears of local authorities, as we need to understand them. Westminster's concern, and I assume Camden's, involves the timing of the impact of the housing provisions. It is concerned about the time gap between the ending of benefit entitlement, which has come into force, and the ending of housing entitlement under the Bill. We regard those fears as unfounded because we have made it supremely clear that money will be available to cover unavoidable additional costs, but I emphasise that if we followed the route proposed in the new clauses and amendments and provided a consultation period, the clause would then increase the delay in aligning housing and benefit entitlement. That would worsen the position of Westminster and, presumably, Camden. If the hon. Gentleman is really concerned about Westminster--I take it that he is--he should immediately rethink his support for the new clauses.
Ms Glenda Jackson:
I am sure that the Minister understands that for Westminster--which was so busy selling off its council stock--and for Camden, it is not just a matter of housing people who are on the streets because they cannot claim housing benefit. There is also a problem in the private sector because of the Government's failure to consult. Private landlords are turning people out because they believe that those people will no longer be able to claim housing benefit, so will be unable to pay their rent. I refer the Minister to what I said earlier. Incredibly reliable sources are saying that more than 100 asylum seekers have nowhere to live other than the streets of London.
Miss Widdecombe:
As I explained in some detail in Committee--as the hon. Lady did not serve on the Committee, she would not have heard me--when I was challenged several times about the effects of the Bill, there are already points at which we withdraw benefit not only from asylum seekers and people who sought leave to stay here under some other head, but from people who have long been settled here and who might be called the indigenous population. There are already points at which we withdraw benefit, yet it does not have the effects that are being described.
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