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6.32 pm
Mr. Norman Hogg (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth): The hon. Member for North Tayside (Mr. Walker) will forgive me if I do not follow what he said, but, in common with most of humanity, I do not have a clue what he was talking about.
I should begin by drawing attention to the fact that I have a registered interest. I have attended debates on this subject for many years, and I must tell the Secretary of
State that this is the worst settlement that I can remember. It will certainly undermine local authority services, it is below the rate of inflation, and it will cost jobs.
In addition, the settlement will cut across the very plans that the Government have for local government, such as devolved school government, school transport safety, care in the community and the pressures on local authorities resulting from our aging population. The very things that the Government want to do will be undermined by the way in which they have dealt with the revenue support grant.
I want to speak about jobs this evening. The Secretary of State told the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities that he wants local government costs to match those in England, and indeed he drew a comparison with England at Question Time today.
Mr. Michael Forsyth:
Just for the record, I told COSLA nothing of the sort. I have heard a rumour that COSLA left the meeting and said that, but I pointed out that the grant was 44 per cent. higher per head than in England, and that expenditure in Scotland was 30 per cent. higher. At no stage have I said that expenditure should be brought down to English levels. Had I thought that, I would not have fought so hard for a block that provides for 30 per cent. more expenditure per head in Scotland.
Mr. Hogg:
I hear what the Secretary of State says, but the implications of what he said to COSLA and what he said in the House this afternoon are absolutely clear. He cannot escape the fact that he has been drawing comparisons with England. We have a different education system from England, and we have higher standards on class sizes. The right hon. Gentleman will accept that he constantly says that education is one of his priorities, but the truth is that he is not willing to provide the means for education.
We should not seek to emulate England in education. England's staffing figures provide a dubious comparison with those of Scotland, because there are more grant-maintained schools in England. [Interruption.] The Minister responsible for education, housing and fisheries, who is trying to make sedentary interventions from the Treasury Bench, has failed to persuade Scottish parents to adopt the opting-out system. We all remember his brave speeches at Christmas, but he has failed to deliver the policy objective of the Secretary of State.
The fact that there are more contracted-out functions in the English education system means that staffing figures are distorted. In any event, we have every right to assert our separate education system. Indeed, we have a constitutional right to a different education system, and it is the duty of the Secretary of State for Scotland to defend that. But he is not doing so with the revenue support grant, because he is financially undermining the education system.
Mrs. Fyfe:
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr. Hogg:
I am sorry, but I have been asked by, among others, Mr. Deputy Speaker--for whom I have great respect--not to take up too much time, and I know that the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Wallace), the Scottish spokesman for the Liberal Democrats, is hoping to speak.
The Secretary of State inherited the local government reorganisation, and I do not blame him for that reorganisation. I blame the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), who was the architect of a system that is costing the council tax payer and the British taxpayer a great deal of money. Its structure is most unsuitable to the delivery of services in Scotland, and the shambolic situation that now exists is directly his responsibility.
The reorganisation was forced on an unwilling Scotland, and the result is that 4,500 employees--and probably more--will leave local government this year. More jobs will be lost because of the phasing of vacancies and temporary posts. These people are not bureaucrats--they work in front-line jobs, and include teachers, social work staff, library staff and so on.
Some 600 senior officers--persons employed in senior official jobs earning £42,000 or more--will be leaving local government. The new councils have streamlined their management structures, and have done their best to make new provisions. But the loss of experienced staff should worry the Secretary of State, and that is a part of the inheritance that has been handed to him by the hon. Member for Eastwood.
The Tories have created an enormous explosion in the number of bureaucrats in the health service, so they are not in a position to lecture local government administrators and management. That is impudence on the part of the Government, but they constantly denigrate local government and its officers, and they constantly say that local government is top-heavy with officials. The Government are deliberately curbing local government expenditure for reasons of which we are all very well aware.
We all know the objective of the cuts. The Secretary of State wants to be able to tell his Cabinet colleagues that he is making cuts to support the creation of a cut in direct taxation later in the year. That is all for the sake of trying to save the day for the Tory party before the next general election.
Thanks to the hon. Member for Eastwood and the Government, an attempt is being made to force uniformity of management and services on us. That is very different from what is required by local government. We have a diverse system of local government, thanks to the structure that has been introduced. The authorities are diverse in size. It is not possible to create similar management structures in every case. The Government are doing their usual trick of trying to impose centralism on everything.
The Scottish people, their councillors and those who work in local government day after day know that the Government's day is over. There is no doubt about it. There is no authority for what the Government do in Scotland. That is not the mandate argument of which we have heard so much over the years, but simply a fact.
Sir Hector Monro (Dumfries):
On a night when we have heard the tremendous news of the order for three new frigates from Yarrow in Glasgow, we ought to be full of good cheer instead of listening to the moaning and groaning of the Opposition, led by the hon. Member for Hamilton (Mr. Robertson).
Local authority finance is an annual ritual. It is always the same, whatever Government are in power. In 1964-70 and 1974-79, there were equally contentious local government finance settlements. I was a councillor for 15 years, and I knew each year that we would face difficult decisions on reducing the budgets that we might like to set, to bring prudent housekeeping to the local authority.
The attitude of Opposition Members is that everything is always cut, cut, cut. We are really dealing with reductions in the budgets that local authorities would like to set if they had carte blanche. Those are the cuts we are talking about, not cuts by Government. The Government have been very reasonable in giving authorities an increase of 2.88 per cent. against 2.9 per cent. inflation. By and large, spending should about equate to what was spent last year, allowing for inflation.
The only major change this year is reorganisation. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has built in additional money for the transition. He rightly expects some financial savings from reorganisation. When we consider that, in my area, five councils have been reduced to one, we would expect a reduction in the administrative costs of the local authority, especially when aggregate external finance this year is virtually the same as last year. There is only a £500,000 difference in £152 million of grant from the Government.
The Opposition are not putting sufficient pressure on their local authorities to trim their budgets to what any prudent housekeeper would spend. [Interruption.] That is a statement of fact. Over the past 10 years, local authorities have increased their expenditure in real terms by 20 per cent. They have increased expenditure in real terms year by year. Until we get a balance far nearer to what is fair and prudent, we will have the same problem every year with local government finance.
We must consider the overall position. Roughly the same population requires the same services each year, yet, out of the blue, local authorities want to increase their expenditure far above the rate of inflation. Of course one would like to have marginal increases to improve services, housing and all the other aspects of local authority expenditure, but nothing like the 10, 20, 30, or 40 per cent. figures that are being thrown around the Chamber.
We have to consider the comparison between Scotland and England and Wales. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has made clear the position that he took with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. There is no question of bringing down expenditure to the level of England, but it is right to point out to councillors in Scotland that Government-supported expenditure in Scotland is 30 per cent. higher than in England, 22 per cent. higher than in Wales, and 70 per cent. higher in respect of capital expenditure. Those are facts. We are spending far more than we ought in Scotland on providing the services that we all want.
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