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2.12 pm
Mr. Ian McCartney (Makerfield): I thank my hon. Friends for cutting their congratulations short, but the Minister has left me only four minutes in which to respond to the debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Mr. Touhig) and the hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Duncan Smith) on their presentation of the Bill. This is the first time in eight and a half years of debate in the House that the argument in favour of proposed legislation has been won so comprehensively.
Even those who oppose the Bill--such as the Minister, who does not want it to receive further consideration in Committee--have been forced on to the back foot. They have had to accept both the concept and the principle behind the Bill. There is therefore no reason why Ministers should prevent the Bill from receiving further consideration in Committee and returning to the House. If the Minister is serious about taking a cross-party approach to the issue of ethics in the public and private sectors, he should support consideration of the Bill in Committee.
In truth, the Bill is about good governance, whether in the public, the private or the voluntary sector. It would assist in establishing better management techniques; it would be an aid, not a drag, on management. Over time, it would assist companies to change their culture and to ensure good practice and good management internally. As fraud was rooted out, companies would prosper: they would not be weakened or lose out as a result of fraudulent activities.
The Bill would ensure the provision of good quality public services. The managers of those services would be accountable for the way in which they managed and for the contractual arrangements that were agreed between them and the service providers. The Bill would also ensure good codes of practice in the voluntary sector when managing public resources.
As Members of Parliament, we have absolute privilege and, in the past eight and a half years, I have seen hon. Members on both sides of the House use that privilege to great effect. They have examined statutory requirements and breaches of legal obligations--such as the improper use of public and private funds, the abuse of authority, miscarriages of justice and maladministration. As hon. Members, we have a privilege--we are protected in law. That is not the case for the ordinary citizen or employee, who can be the victim of internal gagging or disciplinary procedures; who can be accused of breach of contract; who can lose their employment; who can be stripped of their self-esteem; and who can have their professional confidence undermined and their public duty ridiculed. That is not acceptable in any circumstances.
Four days after the debate on Scott, it is this House's duty--the public would demand it of us--to give the Bill a fair wind and allow it to go into Committee. We must be serious about European and corporate fraud, public safety, quality in the caring professions and ensuring that support services exist. We must ensure that policing arrangements are fair and above board and that police officers can look into maladministration without suffering attacks on their personal integrity. Civil servants must be able to raise successfully with Ministers issues that they believe go against the code of conduct, and do so in a way that will not destroy their reputation or career.
For all those reasons, I ask the Minister to support the Bill in a meaningful sense--allow it to go to Committee and then back to the Floor of the House for further consideration.
Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second time:--
The House divided: Ayes 118, Noes Nil.
Tellers for the Ayes:
Tellers for the Noes:
Question accordingly agreed to.
Bill read a Second time, and committed to a Standing Committee, pursuant to Standing Order No. 61 (Committal of Bills).
Order for Second Reading read.
Mr. Jon Owen Jones (Cardiff, Central):
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
That is the definition, coined by a leading firm of accountants, of one of the largest problems that United Kingdom companies face. The problem is, of course, late payment, which my Bill attempts to address.
I want to get it straight from the start that the Bill is not about bad debts--payments that, for one reason or another, will never be made--but about poor credit management or, more often, cynical and wilful delaying tactics in settling accounts to obtain free credit facilities from weaker suppliers.
I claim to be proposing not a panacea for British businesses, but a measure that would have made a tangible difference to the 5,000 firms that went under last year due to late payment.
If the House wants an example of the problem, it need look no further than the Deputy Prime Minister who, earlier this month, was only too happy to boast about his skill at "stringing along creditors" with such sharp practices as omitting second signatures from cheques, ensuring that the words and figures on cheques did not match or simply waiting until the writ arrived. His defence--that everyone got paid in the end--may satisfy his conscience, but his inability to gasp the seriousness of his actions goes to the heart of the issue.
I repeat my opening line:
The result of the cynical manipulation of trade credit can be devastating for some firms. In extreme cases, they can be put out of business. More usually, the effect is to restrict business expansion, so destroying potential jobs, destabilising the marketplace and holding back national economic growth.
An excellent example of the measurable effect of late payment was given in a recent article by Paul Linford in Cardiff's local newspaper, the South Wales Echo. He cites the case of a do-it-yourself supply firm that was owed £90,000 in late payments, £50,000 of which was overdue two months. The firm had to invest about 30 hours a week solely to chase those late payments--nearly one person's entire working week. That was a waste of time and the money could have been devoted instead to the company's growth and development.
It being half-past Two o'clock, the debate stood adjourned.
Bill to be read a Second time upon Friday next.
Remaining Private Members' Bills
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale)
Austin-Walker, John
Banks, Tony (Newham NW)
Barnes, Harry
Barron, Kevin
Bennett, Andrew F
Benton, Joe
Bottomley, Peter (Eltham)
Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E)
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)
Burden, Richard
Byers, Stephen
Campbell-Savours, D N
Carrington, Matthew
Clarke, Tom (Monklands W)
Clwyd, Mrs Ann
Cohen, Harry
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Corston, Jean
Cousins, Jim
Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)
Dafis, Cynog
Dalyell, Tam
Davies, Chris (L'Boro & S'worth)
Denham, John
Dowd, Jim
Duncan-Smith, Iain
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Eagle, Ms Angela
Ewing, Mrs Margaret
Fisher, Mark
Flynn, Paul
Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Gapes, Mike
Gerrard, Neil
Gill, Christopher
Godman, Dr Norman A
Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)
Hain, Peter
Hall, Mike
Harman, Ms Harriet
Heppell, John
Hill, Keith (Streatham)
Hodge, Margaret
Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A)
Howells, Dr Kim (Pontypridd)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark)
Jackson, Glenda (H'stead)
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW)
Jowell, Tessa
Keen, Alan
Khabra, Piara S
Livingstone, Ken
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)
McCartney, Ian
Mackinlay, Andrew
McMaster, Gordon
McNamara, Kevin
MacShane, Denis
Madden, Max
Maddock, Diana
Marek, Dr John
Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S)
Meacher, Michael
Michael, Alun
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe)
Mullin, Chris
Murphy, Paul
Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon
O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire)
O'Hara, Edward
Pearson, Ian
Pike, Peter L
Powell, Ray (Ogmore)
Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E)
Primarolo, Dawn
Purchase, Ken
Quin, Ms Joyce
Rathbone, Tim
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Ruddock, Joan
Sedgemore, Brian
Sheerman, Barry
Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Shore, Rt Hon Peter
Simpson, Alan
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Soley, Clive
Spearing, Nigel
Strang, Dr. Gavin
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Thompson, Jack (Wansbeck)
Timms, Stephen
Touhig, Don
Turner, Dennis
Walker, Rt Hon Sir Harold
Waller, Gary
Walley, Joan
Watson, Mike
Wicks, Malcolm
Wilkinson, John
Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W)
Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen)
Winnick, David
Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld)
Wise, Audrey
Wright, Dr Tony
Mr. Derek Fatchett and
Mr. David Jamieson.
NOES
Mr. Derek Conway and
Mr. Michael Bates.2.27 pm
"It is not a question of never getting their money, but the time it takes to receive it".
"It is not a question of never getting their money, but the time it takes to receive it".
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