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Ms Harriet Harman (Peckham): I thank the committee for its work. I welcome the two principal new measures that it has proposed, on which the Secretary of State is acting. I also welcome the fact that he has made available to me the advice of the chief medical officer on this important and difficult issue. I appreciate that.
Does the Secretary of State acknowledge that public confidence on this issue is hanging by a thread? Public confidence must be restored, but the public have to be given the full facts and honest advice on which to base their decisions. That relies on two things. It relies, does it not, on the Secretary of State giving full disclosure of the scientific evidence? I hope that he will publish all that information and give clear advice and guidance.
Is it not the case that the time has passed for false reassurance? There must be no more photo-calls of Ministers feeding beefburgers to their children.The question whether there is a link between BSE and CJD is an issue, is it not, of immense importance to consumers, and particularly for parents of young children. Does the Secretary of State acknowledge, as I do, that it is also of immense importance for hundreds of thousands of people who work in farming and the meat industry? Does he acknowledge that the situation remains uncertain and that it is now apparent that there has been too much reassurance and too little action?
We must all be concerned, must we not, that 10 cases of a new strain of CJD have appeared? Will the Secretary of State confirm that what is worrying about this new cluster is that it has occurred in people under the age of 42, and that all the cases have occurred in the past two years and only in the United Kingdom? The conclusion that stares the British public in the face is that there may well be a link between BSE and CJD.
The public have a right to know that there has been a comprehensive consideration of all the options. Will the Secretary of State tell the House the most radical option
that SEAC considered? In addition to knowing what the Secretary of State was advised had been considered and acted on, the House needs to know what the committee considered and what it ruled out, to be reassured that all the options were considered.
Will the Secretary of State confirm that he is not saying that there is no risk? Will he confirm that we are dealing not with absolute risks but with relative risks, and that the aim is to achieve the difficult feat of balancing the interests of the economy and the meat industry with those of health?
Is it not the case that, unfortunately and, I am sure, inadvertently, the House has been given yet more false reassurance? The Secretary of State said that Sir Kenneth Calman, the chief medical officer, would continue to eat beef as part of his balanced diet; but he should tell the House whether Sir Kenneth would be prepared to feed beef to his young grandchildren. It is not just a question of the safety of beef for adults; it is a question of the safety of beef for children. Will the Secretary of State confirm that SEAC members who are parents or grandparents are not giving beef to their children or grandchildren?
The right hon. Gentleman must take the public into his confidence. He must recognise that he must lead public opinion, so the public must not be left in the dark. Public concern is so great that Ministers have a duty to be entirely open about the considerations that are involved. If the facts are not fully disclosed, the public response will be fear, which will then be stoked up by ignorance and innuendo. [Interruption.] I appreciate that the position is difficult and the information uncertain, but it is clear that the Secretary of State has lost the confidence of the British people. While he was advising people that it was okay to eat beef, local education authorities throughout the country were withdrawing it from school meals.We need to restore public confidence in the advice of the Department of Health. If we are to do that, people must know that the Government are doing all that they can, that they will publish all SEAC's deliberations and that enough resources will be devoted to future research.
Mr. Dorrell:
I thank the hon. Lady for pointing out that I had made the chief medical officer's advice available to her. I also thank her for welcoming the action that the Government are taking today, which corresponds precisely with the advice given by the scientific committee.
The hon. Lady said that it was important for Government actions and public information on these sensitive issues to be based four square on the facts, not on the reassurances of those without the scientific qualifications on which to base such reassurances.I entirely agree with that. It is essential that we rest our case firmly on the considered advice of the specialists in the advisory committee, who understand scientific connections which are often discussed but which very few of us are qualified to understand.
I believe that the hon. Lady's description of the cases that have led to the advisory committee's further revision of its advice is broadly correct. She asked whether the committee was free to consider all options in making recommendations to the Government. It was indeed free to consider any recommendations that it chose, and it considered a wide range of recommendations. The key
point for the House and the public to note is that the committee's recommendations are the result of considered deliberation by experts, and have been accepted by the Government.
In that connection, I shall deal directly with the question that the hon. Lady asked about children.The committee has not given us a specific recommendation about children. That is why I have asked it to do so at its next meeting. The evidence has become available only in the past few weeks, and it is important that there is proper consideration of all the different elements of that evidence. The specific question of children will be considered by the committee this weekend, and a specific conclusion will be reached and published.
The final question that the hon. Lady asked was whether the facts on which the committee based its deliberations would be made public. The answer is yes, as soon as proper arrangements can be made for their publication in scientific journals.
Mr. Paul Marland (West Gloucestershire):
Is my right hon. Friend aware that many Conservative Members are deeply shocked by the tone and implication of what the Labour spokeswoman said? I urge him to continue not to overreact over this whole business and to base his decisions, as he said, on the latest scientific information. We have often discovered in the House that the rumour is different from the reality. Such health scares and food scares have occurred before. Will he bear it in mind that there is a big industry out there--the British beef industry--which will be listening extremely carefully to what he says?
Mr. Dorrell:
My hon. Friend makes his own point about other comments in his own way. This afternoon, it is not appropriate for me to comment on that.
This key issue involves safety of food and legitimate economic interests. I agree with my hon. Friend that it is just as important for us not to overreact as it is for us not to underreact. The actions that we take must be based four square on an honest assessment of the latest science. That is the Government's position and will continue to be so.
Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark and Bermondsey):
I share the Secretary of State's view that the worst thing that we could do would be to overreact. Therefore, I ask him about two specific things. First, the reports make it clear--I have had the advantage, for which I am grateful, of reading the other two reports--that six other pieces of work are needed and are in hand. Two will be undertaken by the advisory committee, to assess what further research is needed. The Secretary of State referred to another, where he has asked the committee to give specific advice in relation to children. Further advice is also sought from the Health and Safety Executive and the other advisory committee.
Will all that advice be given with the greatest urgency, because the greatest concern for people out there is what to do between today's announcement, which I accept had to be made quickly, and the remaining announcements, which will, as it were, see through this afternoon's announcement? Has there been independent advice from the Medical Research Council? If so, will the Secretary of State publish it?
Secondly, and perhaps most practically, will the right hon. Gentleman tell us what the public authorities and, especially, hospitals and local education authorities
should do, because, otherwise, they will have to use their discretion? Such advice would be helpful. Schools and hospitals need to know whether, pending further advice, they should continue to have beef and beef products on their menus for people who would eat them.
Mr. Dorrell:
The hon. Gentleman referred to one or two further actions that the committee recommended and that I have assured hon. Members will be taken.He referred first to research. I have authorised an additional £4.5 million of expenditure out of the national health service research budget for this sector. The Medical Research Council budget is also available. Both the council and the NHS research and development division will urgently consider the next steps that are necessary following the committee's recommendations.
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