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Mr. Dorrell: I have not asked for specific advice on older people because, it is fair to say, more interest has been concentrated on whether there is age sensitivity in the transmissibility of the condition. That is why I have asked the specific question related to children.The generality of advice is as set out in the statement received from the advisory committee.
Mr. George Mudie (Leeds, East): The Secretary of State has sensibly asked the committee to look again at the implications for children. Genuine doubts prompted him to ask the committee that question. Would it not be wiser to err on the side of safety in respect of advice to parents on their children's diet until the committee has specifically answered his question?
Mr. Dorrell: On that question, as on all others, we do better to rest on the advice of those who understand the science better than I do and, I venture to suggest, better than almost all hon. Members do. The advice of the chief medical officer, based as it is on the advice of the advisory committee on this specific subject, is set out in the statement that I have put in the Vote Office. I shall read it to the House:
- "There is at present no evidence for age sensitivity and the scientific evidence for the risks of developing CJD in those eating meat in childhood has not changed as a result of these new findings. However, parents will be concerned about implications for their children. SEAC has been asked to provide specific advice on this issue."
In addition, as I have told the House, SEAC is meeting specifically to discuss the question this weekend.
Mr. Harold Elletson (Blackpool, North):
Will my right hon. Friend make it clear that children need a healthy and
Mr. Dorrell:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that children, like all adults, benefit from a balanced diet, and for the great majority of us that includes meat eating. There are those who choose not to eat meat. I would not seek, as a Health Minister, to give them advice on that issue. If people want to know how to eat healthily,I would simply emphasise the importance of a balanced and varied diet.
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire):
Is not it unfortunate that the Department of Health has a rather poor record on supplying information about CJD? This country's record regarding the problems that resulted from hormone provision in connection with growth and fertility treatment is abysmal compared with that of Australia. There is now an opportunity to improve the record and ensure that full information is made available. To start with, one of the options is to publish all the options that were considered by SEAC.
Mr. Dorrell:
I have already undertaken to the House that all the scientific evidence on which SEAC reached its conclusions will be made available in published papers through scientific journals. That is the key obligation, which rests on proper and mature consideration of those issues.
SEAC has no confines in the options that it is allowed to consider. It did indeed consider the full range of options that might have been applied, and it reached a decision about the recommendations that it should make. It has offered those recommendations to the House and, more important, to the country.
Mr. Brian Wilson (Cunninghame, North):
Will the Minister join me and many others in expressing gratitude to the scientists and food journalists, such as Derek Cooper of "The Food Programme", who have been warning of the possible--always the possible--transmission into the human food chain since 1985? Is he not rewriting history just a little bit when he claims that the Government's message has always been that there might be a connection? What was the purpose of those idiotic photo-opportunities if not to say that there was not a connection? It certainly was not to say that there might be a connection.
Mr. Dorrell:
With great respect to the hon. Gentleman, the Government have introduced a series of controls, which would not have been necessary if the Government had believed that there was no possible connection. It was always acknowledged that a connection could exist, although there was no scientific basis for believing that it did exist. As there was a possibility that it could exist, controls were introduced, which ensured that those parts of the carcase that contained the infective agents did not get into the human food chain. That is the purpose of the controls that were introduced.
4.17 pm
The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Douglas Hogg): With permission, Madam Speaker, I too would like to make a statement about BSE. In view of the statement that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health just made, the House will wish to know the action that I propose to take to ensure that the risk to the public is minimised.
The additional recommendations just made by the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee that most immediately affect agriculture departments are that carcases from cattle aged over 30 months must be deboned in specially licensed plants supervised by the Meat Hygiene Service and that trimmings be kept out of any food chain; and that the use of mammalian meat and bonemeal in feed for all farm animals be banned.
The committee goes on to state that if these and its other recommendations are carried out, the risk from eating beef is now likely to be extremely small.
The Government have accepted these recommendations, and I will put them into effect as soon as possible. Any further measures that SEAC may recommend will be given the most urgent consideration. Also, and with immediate effect, I have instructed that existing controls in slaughterhouses and other meat plants and in feed mills should be even more vigorously enforced.
I do not believe that this information should damage consumer confidence and thus the beef market. But I should say that support mechanisms exist in the common agricultural policy and the Government will monitor the position closely. I will naturally report developments to the House.
I recognise that there will be public concern, but the Government's chief medical officer advises us that there is no scientific evidence that BSE can be transmitted to man by beef. In fact, he has stated that he will continue to eat beef as part of a varied and balanced diet--a as, indeed, shall I. In view of what I have announced, the Government believe that British beef can be eaten with confidence.
Dr. Gavin Strang (Edinburgh, East):
Will the Minister make all the new information, including all the scientific evidence, available to the House of Commons? We must have complete openness on this issue. Today, we have to learn the important lesson that we must not allow the BSE agent to get into our food. Clearly, it is crucial that animals that display the symptoms of BSE are not slaughtered for food. Is the Minister satisfied with the controls in that regard?
Some animals do not display any symptoms, but they carry the BSE agent. With respect to those animals, what progress is being made on the development of a live test? Can we have an assurance that adequate resources are being made available for this research and all other aspects of research in relation to the food and agricultural implications of BSE and CJD?
The Minister announced a number of measures this afternoon, including deboning the carcases of all beef animals over the age of 30 months. As younger animals have BSE, why has the Minister chosen to debone only
the carcases of cattle over the age of 30 months?Last summer, the Minister had to acknowledge that the controls that were in place in our slaughterhouses were not being adequately enforced. What confidence does he have that the new measures and the existing measures will be effectively enforced? Can we be assured that he will assist the Meat Hygiene Service and the State Veterinary Service in the implementation of these vital objectives?
The Minister's announcements have important implications for the agricultural and meat industries. What measures is he considering to cushion the blow to these industries? Finally, I listened carefully to the statement made by the Secretary of State for Health and to the last part of the Minister's statement. As the Minister responsible for our food, what advice is he giving to people about whether they, their children and their grandchildren should be eating beef and beef products?
Mr. Hogg:
Of course, we must be open--and that is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and I have come promptly to the House. We learnt of the considered conclusions over the weekend, the recommendations were made earlier this morning and we came here very swiftly. In relation to publication, my right hon. Friend has made it clear that we will be publishing the material in the scientific journals.
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