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Mr. Hugh Bayley (York): My constituent,Mr. Leonard Franklin, who was an abattoir worker, died from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease three weeks ago. His bereaved partner believes that his work at the abattoir contributed to that. He used to come home with blood on his clothes and cuts on his body, and she feels that there may have been a link. She specifically asked me to ensure that an independent pathologist was present at the post-mortem, because she did not trust that the Government-appointed pathologist would be independent. Does the Minister accept that that shows the degree of scepticism in the public about the Government's action in response to BSE?
Given that yet more butchery operations will be required in abattoirs to remove the risk of infected material entering the food chain, will the Minister say whether additional protection will be provided for abattoir workers, who work with the riskiest parts of carcases?
On a separate point, will the Minister clarify what he said a moment ago? I believed that in his statement he said that livestock feeds made from mammals would be
entirely banned. He said later that livestock feeds made from poultry would also be banned. Was that his intention because poultry, obviously, are not mammals?
Mr. Hogg:
The case of Mr. Franklin must have caused great distress to the hon. Gentleman and to Mr. Franklin's family. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has already dealt with the point about working practices and the Health and Safety Executive will consider whether any changes in working practices need to be made.
I hope that the public will not be in any way sceptical. The Government have always come to the House with information, in one way or another, as promptly as needs be. SEAC is a wholly independent, free-standing and respected body. It deserves the confidence of the country, which I hope that it will receive.
I am sorry if I have confused the hon. Gentleman. Let me restate the position on feeds. Cattle rations should not contain any material from ruminant animals. That is not true in respect of pig and poultry rations, which could contain mammalian elements. To avoid the danger of cross-contamination in feed mills or on the farm, in implementing the SEAC recommendations I am proposing to prohibit the presence of mammalian elements in food rations for all farm animals.
Sir Donald Thompson (Calder Valley):
I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for coming again promptly to the Dispatch Box in acting on scientific advice, although it is unfortunate that he has had to do so. Can he assure the House that scientific advice, once presented, has never been altered or amended by the Government? Have we ever asked the scientists to alter or amendtheir advice, once it has been presented? Have recommendations always been acted upon and published?
Mr. Hogg:
I particularly value my hon. Friend's support, partly because of his professional experience outside the House and because he was a Minister in my Department. He knows a great deal about the subject. My hon. Friend is entirely right--we have always acted on the advisory committee's advice, and we have never tried to shape that advice. The committee is a freestanding and authoritative body and we listen to what it says. We have always carried out its recommendations.
Mr. Andrew Welsh (Angus, East):
As to support mechanisms, what proposals does the Minister have for the quality end of the beef market, which is BSE-free,if it is faced with general market instability? The Government's handling of the situation has led to the worst of all possible worlds for farmers and consumers. Only the utmost accountability and openness will allow the public to get to the truth of the matter. As the Member of Parliament who represents the Angus part of Aberdeen Angus, I ask the Minister to ensure that consumers know that Scottish quality beef is something in which everybody can have confidence.
Mr. Hogg:
I have a feeling that I was eating Angus beef last night, in the House of Commons restaurant. It was extremely good, and I ate it with total confidence. We have to make a judgment, and I hope that the public will accept the judgments of SEAC and the chief medical officer that British beef can be eaten with confidence.
Mr. Mark Robinson (Somerton and Frome):
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that British beef producers are a highly responsible body? Will he consider taking measures through certification or labelling to demonstrate in shops that beef has been properly treated, on the principles that he outlined today?
Mr. Hogg:
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend about the responsibility shown by beef producers. Certification is an important point, but I am not entirely certain at the moment whether it is one for the Government or the industry. That matter should certainly be considered by MAFF or the industry, or by those who act on its behalf.
Mrs. Ray Michie (Argyll and Bute):
I welcome the Secretary of State and the Minister coming to the House today to make their statements. It is right and proper that they did so promptly. We hope that not just cattle herds but breeds such as highland cattle and the famous Luing cattle are free from BSE. There is no record of BSE in the highlands and islands among those particular breeds over the past five years, which is a great endorsement of beef cattle in the area. The latest scientific advice is bound to have a knock-on effect on breeders, particularly in severely disadvantaged and less-favoured areas. I ask the Minister to consider how he can help those breeders. Will he restore hill livestock compensatory allowances to their 1992 levels?
Mr. Hogg:
I am grateful for the hon. Lady's kind words. What she said about the breeds from the highlands and islands is very important, and I broadly endorse it.It gives breeders a great marketing advantage, because they are able to sell their beef as having come from herds that have not suffered a case of BSE. I should have thought that that would put them in a premium position.
Mr. Douglas French (Gloucester):
Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that the slaughterhouse rules were originally put in place precisely because he and his predecessors accepted that there might conceivably be a link, however remote, between BSE and CJD? The slaughterhouse rules were strengthened once, and he strengthened them again this afternoon, but will he recognise that it is one thing to put in place a set of rules and another to achieve a high degree of enforcement? The House will be grateful this afternoon that he has emphasised that he will introduce measures to ensure a high degree of enforcement, but will he reassure the House by spelling out in greater detail what those measures will be?
Mr. Hogg:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The controls have indeed been strengthened on a substantial number of occasions, and much, of course, depends on their implementation. We will do our outmost to ensure that they are fully implemented, which is why, on more than one occasion at the end of last year, I called in the slaughterhouse operators. It was also one of the reasons why SEAC suggested that cattle over the age of30 months should be sold only in a deboned state,
Mr. Harry Cohen (Leyton):
Is it true that SEAC considered but ruled out the destruction of the national herd? If it even considered that option, does not that show what a mess the Minister's predecessors made of dealing with this problem?
Mr. Hogg:
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has already dealt with that question. SEAC had a whole range of possibilities open to it. It could have made any recommendation that it thought fit and right.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield):
As I represent Macclesfield in Cheshire, where dairying and beef are of great importance to the rural economy,I congratulate the Government on coming to the House with such responsible expedition this afternoon and on the very constructive decisions that my right hon. Friend has taken.
I eat beef, as does my wife, my two sons, my daughter and our six grandsons. We enjoy it and will continue to do so. Has my right hon. and learned Friend any idea of the additional cost of the proposals and announcements that he has made this afternoon, particularly with reference to the slaughterhouse and abattoir operators? I have a very efficient and modern abattoir in my constituency. It is important that the additional costs are known to the House. Can he give us any information?
Mr. Hogg:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his support. Representing the seat that he does, he knows a great deal about both the dairy industry and the beef industry, and therefore his support is particularly welcome. He is, of course, right to say that there will be an additional cost to the abattoirs and, indeed, elsewhere, largely because of the requirement that cattle over30 months must be deboned before they can be sold, and that it must take place in licensed and approved premises. There clearly is an additional on-cost there, but I cannot quantify it today, not least because, as my hon. Friend knows, we received the recommendation only earlier this morning and I have not yet had a chance to look at the quantifications.
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