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Mr. Williams: There are many such anomalies. The order is a sledgehammer. It is a crude measure that bans everything from that area of sea water. It may be difficult to make exceptions, but my hon. Friend has raised an important point.
There is also a problem in relation to leisure angling on the Towy. I have a letter from the chairman of the Carmarthenshire Fishermen's Federation pointing out that the Towy has always been a good river for salmon and sewin. It is one of the best salmon rivers in Britain. It was his understanding that the ban on fishing covered the river as far as Abergwili. He wrote:
He was advising his members to introduce a voluntary ban on fishing until the situation was clearer.
Will the Minister keep under constant review the comments of my hon. Friends the Members for Pembroke and for Gower, because the leisure fishing industry is an important part of our tourism industry as well as being extremely popular among my constituents? There are fishing clubs in Llandeilo, Cross Hands, Llandyssul and Carmarthen. Fishing is extremely popular; it is much more popular than membership of political parties. Hundreds of people enjoy a day's fishing. Sometimes they catch nothing at all, but it is a leisure pursuit and what they catch is generally for their own consumption. I ask the Minister to keep matters under review and consider the points made by my hon. Friends.
The hon. Member for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North (Mr. Dafis) mentioned the definition of consequential losses within the terms of compensation. I hate to think about the effect on the finances of the fishing clubs in Llandeilo, Cross Hands and Llandyssul this year. Any losses they and the NRA incur in respect of fishing licences must be reimbursed from the oil compensation fund.
My final point concerns how long the order will remain in force. The Minister said in his introductory comments that that is difficult to anticipate. I am glad that he did not limit it to a short period. After the Chernobyl accident, we were told that restrictions would apply in north Wales for only a few weeks. Those weeks became months, the months became five years and now, 10 years later, some farms in north Wales are still restricted. I would rather that the Minister erred on the side of caution instead of making promises that he cannot keep.
Mr. Richards:
We have had a good debate this evening about a very serious subject. The hon. Member for Gower (Mr. Wardell) and others have made constructive speeches, and we have benefited from their close understanding of the issues and from their local knowledge. I was intrigued to see the hon. Gentleman lead for the Opposition, as he comes from Tumble, which is landlocked. I wondered how much he knew about sea issues--but clearly he has done some research.
They say that a crisis can bring out the best in everyone; west Wales can be proud of the way in which its representatives have dealt with the incident from the beginning. As Opposition Members have said, I number myself among those with connections with west Wales. Seafaring on the Irish sea has a long history that is full of great, magnanimous and even heroic deeds. I am reminded of the giant, Bendigeidfran, who it is said walked across the Irish sea pulling the Welsh forces behind him in their ships. Superhuman endeavours have also characterised the weeks following the Sea Empress incident.
I pay tribute to those who have worked tirelessly and ceaselessly to help ease the ill effects. First, I commend those who controlled and supervised the emergency--often performing beyond the call of duty. Secondly,I record my appreciation for the level of co-operation received from local authorities and other public bodies. Thirdly, I thank the fishermen who selflessly refrained from fishing in order to safeguard their industry and the general public. Last--but certainly not least--I commend those voluntary organisations, Crown forces and volunteers comprising men, women and young people who did not hesitate to respond to the emergency. We thank them for their dedication.
Many Opposition Members--particularly thehon. Members for Gower and for Carmarthen(Mr. Williams)--said that the exclusion area is arbitrary and the right hon. Member for Llanelli (Mr. Davies) described the closure order as draconian. I assure Opposition Members that the order is not arbitrary, but based on scientific advice. I think that I have time to tell hon. Members a story--which I am sure they will appreciate--to prove that the order is not arbitrary.
As I read the order and looked at the list of species that would be affected by it, my eyes fell upon the words "lemon sole". I lived in Llanelli as a boy and I remember well how the whole family--all seven of us--would sit down to lemon sole for Saturday lunch. My mother bought it from one of the fish stall holders in Llanelli market. I know the gentleman from whom she used to buy--he had come from eastern Europe some time during or following the war--and I always marvelled at his dexterity in filleting.
My mother used to dip the lemon sole in breadcrumbs before cooking and then serve it with parsley sauce, peas, mashed potatoes and a knob of butter. I assure hon. Members--and anyone else who cares to listen--that lemon sole from the Burry inlet in Carmarthen bay that is cooked in that manner is better than any lemon sole from anywhere else in the world.
I shall now deal with some of the points that have been raised by Opposition Members. If I do not succeed in answering their questions in the short time available,I shall write to them as I know that these issues concern
them and their constituents. I must inform the hon. Member for Gower that public health authorities do not cover hydrocarbons or polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in their programmes. He said that we did not need to impose an order. The fishermen have told us that they accept that such an order is necessary.
I thought that some of the hon. Gentleman's remarks bordered on the irresponsible--which is not characteristic of him. He must realise that the Secretary of State has a duty to look after public health and to ensure that consumers do not eat fish that could be injurious to their health. I was surprised to hear him refer to anecdotal evidence in support of his case, whereas the case for the closure order is scientifically based.
Mr. Richards:
The hon. Gentleman is dying to say something, so how can I not give way?
Mr. Wardell:
I refer the Minister to only two issues. First, as to his point about the arbitrary line, he must now demonstrate that samples taken from immediately outside that line have considerably lower levels of contamination than those taken from immediately within it. Secondly, he must inform the House what critical levels of hydrocarbons found in fish and shellfish make them injurious to public health upon human consumption. If he is able to do that, I shall be a much happier man.
Mr. Richards:
I assure the hon. Gentleman that sampling will continue inside and outside the exclusion area, including those parts to the east of his constituency to which he referred earlier. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will make a judgment, based on the available scientific evidence and advice that he is given, about the appropriateness of the exclusion order that is currently in force. I shall come back to the issue of levels of hydrocarbons a little later, but the level of hydrocarbons found varies from species to species and depends on which part of the creature's body is sampled.
Mr. Walter Sweeney (Vale of Glamorgan):
Does my hon. Friend agree that there is no difference in the level of pollution one inch either side of a line drawn in the sea, which does not have a wall running under it? Will my hon. Friend assure the House that the effectiveness of the boundary will be reviewed and that the Government will take prompt action if it proves necessary? Would my hon. Friend care to speculate how long it will be necessary to keep the zone in force to protect health and the reputation of the Welsh fishing industry, which is vital?
Mr. Richards:
My hon. Friend makes a valid point about the line. It was not drawn arbitrarily, but on the basis of scientific evidence. I assure my hon. Friend that sampling, especially, and computer modelling will continue to take place inside and outside the exclusion zone, as has been done already.
"My advice to rod fishermen on non-tidal stretches, whose season was due to open shortly, is to hold off until we have some results from the studies being made by the NRA."
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