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The Prime Minister: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. I agree with his view that the electoral solution is not ideal. It seems complex, but from the point of view of the elector it is simple. Electors will simply have to cast one vote in their own constituency, and everything else flows immediately from that. So there is no complexity from the point of view of the elector in Northern Ireland; it is a very simple process.
The right hon. Gentleman is correct in saying that the start date of 10 June is fixed, and that there will be no delay. The position that he set out on decommissioning, the Mitchell report and the six principles is also correct.
We shall conclude the format, the agenda and the ground rules paper as speedily as possible. The ground rules paper is out for consultation, and we shall wish to consult further the constitutional political parties in Northern Ireland, with the intention of reaching, as far as that is possible, an agreed position on it. We shall seek a consensus if one is there to be had.
On negotiations, the right hon. Gentleman is right about the separation of the forum and the negotiators. The negotiators, in essence, are masters of their own process.If they choose to refer elsewhere they may so choose, but it is not obligatory for them in any way to do so. The three-stranded process is as he set it out. He is also right in saying that this election is a means to an end. The election is not the end in itself, it is simply the process by which a proper, democratic mandate is arrived at which will enable the parties honourably to sit down one with the other and conduct the negotiations that all Northern Ireland is crying out to see happen. With that in mind, I hope that the House will give them a speedy and helpful start.
Mr. David Trimble (Upper Bann):
First, may I welcome the fact that we are going to have elections and a forum on the way to the negotiations, as I believe that that is the right way to proceed. However, I must tellthe Prime Minister that we are concerned aboutthe practicality of this entirely novel suggestion for18 different list elections.
I believe that I am right in saying that there is no precedent for list elections on this small scale anywhere in the world. We need to have a lot more information about the mechanisms, particularly when we come to allocate fractions for the final seats. Would it not have been better to stick to the existing proportional representation system, which is accepted by all parties for all local elections in Northern Ireland and not to have allowed himself to have been blown off course by the unholy alliance of the Irish Government, the Social Democratic and Labour party and the Democratic Unionist party?
I welcome the clear statement by the Prime Minister on the Mitchell report on decommissioning, but will the reference in his statement to "at the beginning" really mean the beginning, with no other matter coming beforehand on 10 June? What arrangements will be made to ensure that the commitments to Mitchell will be honoured? That clear statement on Mitchell contrasts with the fudge in the paper on ground rules that was issued last Friday. Does the Prime Minister know of our concern about the duplicitous manner in which that paper emerged and on the need for greater openness and integrity about the way in which the Northern Ireland Office conducts its business?
The Prime Minister:
Let me deal with the last point first. The paper that emerged on Friday was a paper for consultation, not a blueprint with decisions. It was published so that we could consult the hon. Gentleman and his party and the other parties in Northern Ireland.At the end of that consultation we will be able to make decisions.
I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's welcome for elections. He is right to say that there is no precedent for the nature of the election that I am proposing. But I have to say that there is no precedent that I know for the
circumstances and complexities that exist in Northern Ireland. If I had been able to find an easier compromise more familiar to people across Northern Ireland, I assure the House that I would have found and advanced such a compromise. In the absence of one, I have had to seek a system that I believe combines attractive features from the representations made to us, is simple and will provide a fair and representative outcome of the elections.
On the Mitchell report, I reiterate that, at the beginning of negotiations, all participants will need to make clear their absolute commitment to the Mitchell principles and progress on that is clearly vital, as the hon. Gentleman indicated. If I may return to the electoral system, I believe that, although the description of the electoral systemand how it amasses its outcome seems complex,its mechanism--one single vote for one single party on one single occasion--could not be simpler.
Mr. Paddy Ashdown (Yeovil):
I do not disagree with much of what the Prime Minister has said, except when he said that this was simple. I am not sure that people will see it that way. Is not the plain truth that this is a dog's breakfast, but that it is probably the only dog's breakfast on offer and may well be the best dog's breakfast that could have been arrived at, given the position that the Government found themselves in? In those circumstances, is it not a good thing that all parties should now get on with it and try to produce the maximum vote for those who want to negotiate peace and the minimum vote for those who want to continue with conflict?
The Prime Minister:
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his last words and grateful for what he had to say about this being the best that might have been achieved. I might have preferred him to use a term other than "dog's breakfast", because I do not believe that to be true.
I believe that what we have here is a compromise to which all people should be able to subscribe. Its purpose is to make sure that we achieve the outcome that I think the people in Northern Ireland wish to see--to go through an election process and into negotiations. The election is the means to that end, and I am glad at least that the right hon. Member welcomed it in that spirit.
Mr. Seamus Mallon (Newry and Armagh):
It is a matter of some regret that the Prime Minister was not able today to give a definitive answer to three important questions. The first relates to the referendums suggested by our party; the second to the transitional steps between elections and negotiations; and the third to the ground rules for all-party negotiations. Can I surmise that those questions are not yet to the liking of the Prime Minister's friends in the Ulster Unionist party, and that they are being given more time to nibble away at them as well? We will await those answers with interest, so that we can judge the package as a whole rather than piecemeal.
Can the Prime Minister confirm that, in the joint declaration of 28 February, the British and Irish Governments stated that any elective process must be broadly acceptable? In Northern Ireland terms, that means acceptable within the Unionist and nationalist communities. May I tell the Prime Minister again that a body of 110 people elected in the context of overall negotiations has no support within the nationalist community? It is seen as Unionist-inspired and
Unionist-dominated. In effect it is a prototype of the Unionists' preferred structure for Northern Ireland, given to them and delivered to them even before negotiations begin. That will be done by sleight of hand and will pre-empt the negotiations.
The Prime Minister knows that there is no support for that elected body in the nationalist community. The Irish Government know that there is no support for it in the nationalist community. How can they then proceed with it, when it does not even meet their own criteria as stated on 28 February?
Will the Prime Minister also accept that there is no broad support within the nationalist community for the proposed elective process, which is seen as a sop to the Unionist parties, and judged divisive and nonsensical?It will distort and distract the real negotiations. How then can the Prime Minister claim broad support for that which can best be described as a monster raving loony election proposal? Was he not tempted to send for the men in the white suits when those proposals were put to him by his advisers?
The Prime Minister:
I have known the hon. Gentleman for a long time, and he did himself no credit in the past two or three minutes. None the less, let me pick up each of the points that he raised.
On the referendums, there was no agreement among the parties we consulted about them. I have kept the option open, as I expressly stated a few moments ago, about whether there should be a referendum. At the moment, there is no agreement for one.
On the ground rules, as I have made perfectly clear,the paper on those rules has been published for consultation. The hon. Gentleman knows that--it has been published for consultation with him as well. There is no point in his making absurd charges when he knows that the paper has been published for consultation with him and with each and every other party.
As for the timetable for transition, the hon. Gentleman will find that that has been dealt with in the paper we published this afternoon. As for a broadly acceptable electoral system, if there had been one, I would have used it. One of the reasons why there was not one is that the hon. Gentleman's party blocked some of the proposals. The hon. Gentleman and his party were involved in ensuring that there was no broadly acceptable, satisfactory electoral system, as did some of the other political parties. If there had been one, I would readily have taken it up. The hon. Gentleman must take his share of the responsibility for the fact that there was not one. As he is an elected Member in Northern Ireland, that responsibility needs to be taken seriously.
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