| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Hogg: That is an interesting suggestion, and I should like to reflect on it.
Mr. David Hinchliffe (Wakefield): Has the Minister had an opportunity to study the Hansard report of the debate on BSE and CJD that I initiated on 10 January? If he has, how it is possible for him to state that stringent controls are operating to ensure that unsafe meat is removed from the food chain? May I express my appreciation of his Department, particularly the hon. Member for Tiverton (Mrs. Browning), for arranging, following that debate, a briefing on BSE and CJD with his officials, which is due to take place on Wednesday? Why are his officials refusing to allow me to take along to that briefing as an advisor Dr. Stephen Dealler, a consultant microbiologist who has studied the issue since 1988?
Mr. Hogg: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind words regarding my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary. I am glad that the briefing to which he has referred is being held. I do not dispute, as I said in response to the hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours), that, from time to time, there has been non-compliance with SBO controls, to which the hon. Member for Wakefield apparently referred in his debate and which I am afraid I was unable to attend. That information was volunteered by my Department by way of a parliamentary answer. We are doing our utmost to ensure full compliance. I believe that now that people fully realise the significance of non-compliance, there will be infinitely better compliance, to the extent that one can say in any meaningful way that there will be full implementation. What I cannot guarantee is that we shall always avoid the possibility of some slight error. I think that we will get full implementation in the sense that it is ordinarily meant. If one asked whether that would be 100 per cent., the answer would be not always.
Sir Hector Monro (Dumfries): Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the two statements today have been encouraging, especially to those who have to make decisions on school meals? Does he further agree that those who stand back and take a practical, sensible and cool look at SEAC's advice must realise that the risk is infinitesimal? Does he also accept that those who are selling prime cattle this week, next week and the week after will face substantial losses? Will he assure me that if intervention buying is essential, it will be introduced quickly?
Mr. Hogg: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his support. As I mentioned on--I think--Wednesday, he has considerable experience in this field. I am conscious of the possibility that farmers who live in his constituency will be seriously affected by the loss of market confidence. It is for that reason that I drew attention to market support mechanisms in the common agricultural
policy. I am also grateful to him for welcoming what our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health said regarding the risks to children and food provided in schools.
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West): It would have been helpful if Conservative Members who are farmers had declared their interests when they asked questions. We are in this situation mainly because we have interfered with nature. Feeding animal protein, especially diseased animal protein, to herbivores was clearly going to have severe implications.
On scientific evidence, would it not be appropriate for the Secretary of State to talk to Professor Richard Lacey, who, before 1989, was warning of a connection between humans and mad cow disease, but was dismissed as either making it up or as being lucky with his evidence? Was he making it up? Was he lucky with his evidence, just as he was about listeria and salmonella? Will the Secretary of State add Mr. Lacey and Dr. Narang to the committee of experts?
Mr. Hogg:
It is perfectly true that different scientific opinions have been expressed on occasions during the past eight or 10 years. The Government have however brought together, as I have said before, probably the most authoritative group of experts on this subject in the world. We placed before the House last week the result of new information, and we did so with all possible speed.
Mr. Richard Alexander (Newark):
May I congratulate my right hon. and learned Friend on the dispassionate way in which he has dealt with the subject this afternoon and on his refusal to be panicked into taking drastic action--which was widely predicted in the press--that was not justified by scientific evidence? Has he learnt today that two further outbreaks of BSE have occurred in France? If it is appropriate for countries to ban our beef because of BSE, surely it is entirely appropriate, if BSE occurs in those countries, that we should institute such a ban against their products.
Mr. Hogg:
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend and neighbour for his support. I was not aware of the two cases in France. It is right to say that the scale of the problem on mainland Europe is quite different from the scale of the problem here, and that fact should inform our considerations. My hon. Friend does, however, make an important remark regarding the controls in Europe. It is right to keep in mind, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Honiton stressed, that in a number of important respects, most especially relating to feed content and SBO controls, our regime is very much tighter than that which is found on mainland Europe.
Mr. Robin Corbett (Birmingham, Erdington):
Can the Minister clarify that the scientific advice that he has had about the safety of eating beef makes no distinction between beef from pedigree Aberdeen Angus herds, for example, and beef products such as sausages, pork pies, black pudding, and so on? Will he draw the lesson that it would be in everybody's interest--feed manufacturers as well as food processors--if all compounds that derived from animals were listed on product labels?
Mr. Hogg:
One has to start from the basic proposition that, in the judgment of SEAC, British beef is safe and the risk involved in eating it is extremely low. As the hon. Gentleman will have noticed from its statements--I am sure that he has read both statements, which were issued on Wednesday and earlier today--it has focused on the particular status of the older cow. For these purposes, that is the cow over the age of 30 months. To reinforce public confidence, it has introduced a deboning regime in respect of older beasts.
Mr. Patrick Nicholls (Teignbridge):
Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that although consumers in my constituency can take great heart from the fact that the risk is extremely small, for farmers and their families in many areas, the results could yet be devastating? Does he also agree that if there comes a time when compensation in some shape or form has to be paid, we should be entitled to receive the same compensation from Europe as our European partners would demand for themselves? Does he further agree that the reason why the incidence of BSE may seem less on the continent is precisely because, as he said a few moments ago, their efforts to control it are the less?
Mr. Hogg:
On the question of controls, I have no doubt that, as I have already said, our controls are very much tighter than those that one finds on mainland Europe. However, it is also true that the scale of the problem here is very much greater than that on mainland Europe, and I would not want to pretend otherwise in the House. I very much hope that we can get financial support from Europe--indeed, I expect to because of CAP market support mechanisms, to which I have already referred. I look to our colleagues in Europe to play their part in ensuring that the market is supported in Britain, if that is required.
Miss Kate Hoey (Vauxhall):
As someone who has always eaten British beef, and will continue to do so, particularly if it comes from organically raised cattle, may I ask the Minister to clarify one issue as there are some concerns about the meat that McDonald's and other chains are bringing from Europe? What evidence has he that the cattle, from which the beef that is now being imported has come, have never been fed on contaminated foodstuffs?
Mr. Hogg:
That is an important question, but it is best put to the Dutch Minister and, of course, to McDonald's.
Mr. Roger Gale (North Thanet):
May I express my sense of relief at the fact that my right hon. and learned Friend and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health have based their decisions on scientific evidence, not the scaremongering emanating from the Opposition Front Bench which, if followed through, would undoubtedly have led to the unwarranted slaughter of the millions of animals that make up the national herd. Is it not time that we clearly expressed the view that the continental ban on British beef has everything to do with commercial advantage and nothing to do with health? If the Commission approves the continuation of that continental ban, should not my right hon. and learned Friend follow it through to its logical conclusion and ban
Mr. Hogg:
My hon. Friend has supported the recommendations and I am extremely grateful to him. It is important that we base our policy on an informed discussion of the facts and I am grateful to SEAC for making that possible. I have no doubt that some of the reaction that we have seen in Europe is motivated as much by commerce as by any other consideration. Some Ministers in Europe certainly do not question the scientific position that we are adopting, but are simply seeking to respond to anxiety among the public, which is quite different.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |